CFZ Fixing Cowboys Run Defense: Opposite what you may think

[T-RO]

This thread will serve up surprises. When I discovered this...half of my brain detonated out the left ear. Goopy stuff. Smells funny.

Everyone knows the Bears ran for 240 on us Sunday! Our team's manhood was brought into question, right? Get on the phone quick, Stephen. We need a few more 350 pound DTs and maybe a couple 290 pound run-stuffing power linebackers. Fix this or playoff hopes are doomed. Right?

HOW DO WE FIX THIS!?

Here from All-22 and Pro-Football-Reference the mind-bending game data:

Bears Running Game up until garbage time* :
Inside Runs: 3.4 yards per carry**
Outside Runs/ QB Scrambles: 8.2 yards per carry***

Let us summarize for emphasis:
Dallas mostly throttled interior runs, but was gashed on jet sweeps and QB scrambles! Big gains had little to do with the big bodies. 100% opposite most fan's assumptions.

To further explore here in this thread:
-Is the key to better fun defense a power issue, a speed issue...or something else?
-Who is to blame on the roster right now for lapses? How bad is this, really?
-Can I get brain goop re-implanted? Need all I got.

---
*Garbage time = anything after Cowboys took 42-23 lead:
**17 carries for 57 yards
*** 11 for 90 yards

 

[Runwildboys]

I think most of us knew that the outside runs (many of which were going around DLaw) were where the majority of our ineptness showed. Hankins did a pretty good job in the middle when he was in.

 

[T-RO]

I think most of us knew that the outside runs (many of which were going around DLaw) were where the majority of our ineptness showed.

Not what I recall as consensus from game thread, or from recent threads, but maybe my I'm wrong on that.

So RWB, questions for you:
-What 2-4 players are most responsible for run-game defense issues?
-How big of a problem is it?

 

[Oz-of-Cowboy-Country]

Our DE's get up the field too quick. I've been saying that every since we switched back to the 4-3. They leave gaping holes in between them and the DT's. That's why I prefer the two gap system with DE's that can stand their ground. If we really wanted to stop the run, we'd have to play Golston and Osa at DE together.

LDE -Golston
3T.DT -Watkins
1T.DT -Hankins
RDE -Osa

That's your run stuffing front four right there.

 

[T-RO]

LDE -Golston
3T.DT -Watkins
1T.DT -Hankins
RDE -Osa

If/when all you want to do is stop the run, maybe I agree.

But then I kinda don't. If he's focused purely on stopping the run, Lawrence is very good at it. And he's stronger than Golston, with superior football IQ.

Edit: After 90 seconds thought: will have to downgrade my response to your post from mostly-agree to skeptical-but-curious-to-hear more.

 

[Flamma]

Imo, the run is hard to stop when the QB is also a threat to run. If they had Matt Stafford back there, they wouldn't be running for over 200 yards. Just the that of the QB keeping the ball can put a defender out of position or slow to react.

We had the same problem against Philly. The entire league had that problem against the 2019 Ravens.

 

[T-RO]

Imo, the run is hard to stop when the QB is also a threat to run. If they had Matt Stafford back there, they wouldn't be running for over 200 yards. Just the that of the QB keeping the ball can put a defender out of position or slow to react.

Totally agree. If you remove the QB runs the Bears averaged 4.8 yards per carry.* Decent, but not a real problem.

(Again excluding garbage time plays when Dallas *wanted* the Bears to run)

 

[DanA]

I think there are a host of issues contributing

1. Our edge rushers are playing very aggressive football at the expense of setting the edge (I'm okay with that)
2. Our DTs are allowing linemen to get to the second level too often (Hankins should help)
3. Our LBs are a little slow to diagnose and split the gap/wade through the trash (hoping Clarke helps)
4. Refs have missed some egregious holds (in particular Micah) and it has allowed some big runs (luck of the draw, should even out)
5. We tend to play up-tempo offense which keeps our defense on the field and less rested (No reason why we can't with our TE's and run game)
6. Our corners aren't the best at playing the run (think Okudah)

I think Dan Quinn can have our edge rushers play a bit more disciplined and with Hankins contributing to the second level being cleaner for our LB's it should get better but it's not a silver bullet.

 

[T-RO]

I think there are a host of issues contributing

1. Our edge rushers are playing very aggressive football at the expense of setting the edge (I'm okay with that)
2. Our DTs are allowing linemen to get to the second level too often (Hankins should help)
3. Our LBs are a little slow to diagnose and split the gap/wade through the trash (hoping Clarke helps)
4. Refs have missed some egregious holds (in particular Micah) and it has allowed some big runs (luck of the draw, should even out)
5. We tend to play up-tempo offense which keeps our defense on the field and less rested (No reason why we can't with our TE's and run game)
6. Our corners aren't the best at playing the run (think Okudah)

I think Dan Quinn can have our edge rushers play a bit more disciplined and with Hankins contributing to the second level being cleaner for our LB's it should get better but it's not a silver bullet.

Dan, You are stealing some of my talking points, particularly 1,3,4,6.

I still got lots of fixings yet to bring to the dinner table in this thread.

 

[baltcowboy]

This thread will serve up surprises. When I discovered this...half of my brain detonated out the left ear. Goopy stuff. Smells funny.

Everyone knows the Bears ran for 240 on us Sunday! Our team's manhood was brought into question, right? Get on the phone quick, Stephen. We need a few more 350 pound DTs and maybe a couple 290 pound run-stuffing power linebackers. Fix this or playoff hopes are doomed. Right?

HOW DO WE FIX THIS!?

Here from All-22 and Pro-Football-Reference the mind-bending game data:

Bears Running Game up until garbage time* :
Inside Runs: 3.4 yards per carry**
Outside Runs/ QB Scrambles: 8.2 yards per carry***

Let us summarize for emphasis:
Dallas mostly throttled interior runs, but was gashed on jet sweeps and QB scrambles! Big gains had little to do with the big bodies. 100% opposite most fan's assumptions.

To further explore here in this thread:
-Is the key to better fun defense a power issue, a speed issue...or something else?
-Who is to blame on the roster right now for lapses? How bad is this, really?
-Can I get brain goop re-implanted? Need all I got.

---
*Garbage time = anything after Cowboys took 42-23 lead:
**17 carries for 57 yards
*** 11 for 90 yards

Good post but if you are using the Dak definition of garbage time it was at 28-7 2nd quarter.

 

[DogFace]

I’ve seen it twice now. When teams are forced to pass they can’t. Cincy and the Bears. If they wanted to win they needed to pass more, but just couldn’t.

I think Clark will help stop some of these outside runs. Hankins is already paying off in the middle.

 

[Runwildboys]

Not what I recall as consensus from game thread, or from recent threads, but maybe my I'm wrong on that.

So RWB, questions for you:
-What 2-4 players are most responsible for run-game defense issues?
-How big of a problem is it?

Now that the middle of the D-line is more fortified with Hankins, we'll have to see where it takes us, but against Chicago, DLaw's tendency to overrun the QB and fall for the fake handoff did a lot of damage. If the edges can do a better job of forcing runs back to the middle of the line, I think they could cut their yardage down considerably.

As for what players are responsible, I think it's more the scheme than the players, but when the players come in too hot, they allow the runner, whether it be the RB or QB, to go around them. Much like when the gunners overrun the punt returner.

 

[Whirlwin]

I think most of us knew that the outside runs (many of which were going around DLaw) were where the majority of our ineptness showed. Hankins did a pretty good job in the middle when he was in.

Agree. I also think it’s the scheme of the defense. They’re more interested in pressure than outside runs. At least it seems that way. Because if The alternative is not good lol

 

[Reverend Conehead]

If the opponent has a good running QB, maybe put a spy on him?

 

[T-RO]

If they wanted to win they needed to pass more, but just couldn’t.

Open question how much Bears management and coaches really wanted to win. Or believed they could. Bears GM was selling off players before and just after this game. We never saw any hurry up when behind, or trying to stop the clock. Ah but I'm getting silly, half my brain ejected out my ear.

Cowboys were perfectly happy to give up 5-10 yard runs while up 3 scores in the 4th Q.

 

[JeffInDC]

This is all a player execution issue. How many times did we watch DLaw get faked out of his jockstrap by Fields? He and Dorance (as someone said earlier) are too busy “Sack Chasing” and giving up outside containment/gap integrity. Fowler did it as well. Maybe this is the week where Quinn reminds them that, if they play their run “fits” properly, they will then force teams into 2nd/3rd & Long where they can then pin their ears back and go “Sack Chasing”…the 2 shouldn’t be exclusive.

 

[Londonboy]

Open question how much Bears management and coaches really wanted to win. Or believed they could. Bears GM was selling off players before and just after this game. We never saw any hurry up when behind, or trying to stop the clock. Ah but I'm getting silly, half my brain ejected out my ear.

Cowboys were perfectly happy to give up 5-10 yard runs while up 3 scores in the 4th Q.

The commentators kept banging on about how Chicago never gives up, yet they employed a strategy that was only ever going to lead to defeat.
Even if Your QB is poor at throwing the ball, you have to at least give it a go, especially with half the opposition secondary leaving the game injured.

 

[T-RO]

Even if Your QB is poor at throwing the ball, you have to at least give it a go

Yup. And they chose not to try.

 

[Brooksey]

Keep plugging the middle, the defensive ends have to play the outside shoulder of the RB's/ QB's and force them back inside

 

[Creeper]

This has been true all year. The inside run defense has been okay.

But we have to understand why the outside runs work so well against Dallas. I think we saw some of it Sunday. Lawrence loses contain constantly. He jumps inside on the fake handoffs and they run around him. He has been doing this forever. If he guesses right and the QB hands the ball off to the RB, he make what looks like a nice play. But if the QB keeps it and runs outside, or it's a sweep there is no contain and it goes for at least 10 yards. He needs to stay more disciplined and trust his teammates to do their jobs on the middle. I have said this a million times but Lawrence needs to watch tape of Demarcus Ware. No one ran outside Ware successfully..

Golston is not very good. He gets shoved around by TEs and he is too slow to chase down faster RBs and QBs running around him.

There hasn't been enough plays to sample, but what I have seen is Sam Williams is the best DE they have at cutting those outside plays off. He has the quickness to recover when he gets too inside and he can outrun RBs if he has to. Armstrong has not been as strong against the outside runs as I thought he would be and Fowler is really more of a pass rusher, although he is not awful. The Cowboys are very aggressive on defense and that is why I think they lose contain on the outside runs. On a few passing plays they left Fields with huge holes to runs through because they did not stay in their rushing lanes.

But it is also the LBs. LVE made a great play Sunday running through the hole and forcing the RB deeper and more outside where he was tackled for a loss. We do not see that enough from him. He is slow to the hole and often gets picked off by an offensive linemen because he waits to charge. Barr has been disappointing too.

My controversial thoughts are that Trysten Hill would benefit the run game playing next to Hankins. Hill is quicker than Gallimore and can penetrate at times to disrupt the play. Gallimore has nothing moving laterally and neither does Hankins. Osa Odighizuwa gets bullied sometimes on running plays.

I keep saying that Cox should be getting some plays at LB. The little time he played last year he showed he has tremendous sideline to sideline speed and he is a good tackler. I would love to see some plays with Clark and Cox while LVE and Barr get a rest. Clark needs more time getting used to the NFL game but he and Cox add speed and instincts to the defense.