For OTAs, your favorite S is still starting

gimmesix

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And Iloka can handle the physicality, proper angles, and tackling required of the strong safety position, while Heath cannot.

I agree, which is why I think Iloka should be starting at strong safety instead of Heath. We might give up a bit in coverage range, but we'd gain in strength against the run.
 

Sydla

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If by, "fave," you mean, "the current guy on the roster holding the starting position," then... ok. But it's not like they're satisfied. It's not like they weren't looking to upgrade.

They put in minimal effort to upgrade. Thomas wasn't even a SS, he's a FS. I think they fell in love with the whole story of Thomas, coming back to Dallas and his home state. Once they saw the price tag, they puckered up.

Other than that, they put in minimal effort to upgrade that slot unless we just get lucky and our late round pick does the unthinkable and turns into an impact player immediately.
 

Sydla

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I try to be fair to all players instead of letting biases taint my viewpoint. Heath is a decent starting free safety and a poor starting strong safety.

His coverage skills have improved greatly since he was thrown out there as a rookie from a small school. He was often out of position that year and late getting to the ball. He shouldn't have been starting any games, but injuries and a lack of depth pushed him into the lineup.

Most fans seem to still see the Heath of 2013. Too slow to react, poor recognition. However, he has developed over the past few years in those areas when it comes to playing the pass. He made a major step forward in 2016 as primarily a deep nickel/dime safety, which is the reason Dallas tapped him to replace Church as the starting strong safety. Playing out of position in 2017 got fans back on his back and made some of them have blinders on when Dallas switched him to free safety, where he played well for the rest of the season. Being back at strong safety last year moved him away from what he does best and justifiably brought back the criticism.

You seem to be an all-or-nothing fan — either you like a player or you don't — who can't see that players can be pretty good at one thing while being pretty bad at another. Heath is a pretty good coverage safety. He's not great and he's upgradable, but you can easily do worse in that role. He's not very good as a run-support safety, which is sadly the role Dallas has him in.

I'd prefer that he go back to being a deep nickel or dime safety.

Bias? LOL, I love when people write off criticisms of players as being illogical and full of bias.

Heath gets average to below average marks from just about everyone. Crap, you just called him a below average SS and just a "decent" (which he isn't either) FS. Is that really much different than me saying he's an average to below average NFL starting S?

He's not a very good deep safety, he's an even worse SS. I wonder why that bothers you so much?
 

Stash

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I agree, which is why I think Iloka should be starting at strong safety instead of Heath. We might give up a bit in coverage range, but we'd gain in strength against the run.

Agreed. What I'm expecting is a package of three safeties, depending on down/distance and circumstances where Iloka is out there in run support and Heath is out there for what look to be pure passing situations.
 

Haimerej

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They put in minimal effort to upgrade. Thomas wasn't even a SS, he's a FS. I think they fell in love with the whole story of Thomas, coming back to Dallas and his home state. Once they saw the price tag, they puckered up.

Other than that, they put in minimal effort to upgrade that slot unless we just get lucky and our late round pick does the unthinkable and turns into an impact player immediately.

They put in the effort, though. By calling him a pet cat it sounds like you're saying they didn't want to replace him. If I'm Heath, I'm not exactly comfortable considering what they did.
 

gimmesix

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Bias? LOL, I love when people write off criticisms of players as being illogical and full of bias.

Heath gets average to below average marks from just about everyone. Crap, you just called him a below average SS and just a "decent" (which he isn't either) FS. Is that really much different than me saying he's an average to below average NFL starting S?

He's not a very good deep safety, he's an even worse SS. I wonder why that bothers you so much?

Because I believe your portrayal of him isn't accurate. I believe you have demonstrated that your judgment is clouded when it comes to players like Heath. I don't like seeing that.

It's like a lot of critics of Prescott have to exaggerate his weaknesses or ignore his strengths for whatever reason. That makes any criticism of Prescott get lumped in with the overcritical assessments. Fair criticism is deserved. Some of you can't see past the bad of a player to be able to acknowledge the good. If that's who you want to be, so be it.
 

gimmesix

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Agreed. What I'm expecting is a package of three safeties, depending on down/distance and circumstances where Iloka is out there in run support and Heath is out there for what look to be pure passing situations.

That's possible, even if it's not ideal, since we did that with Frazier and Jones in 2017. I'd certainly rather see Heath free to roam the deep center. He's good at tracking the ball coming forward and has the speed to get to it on overthrows and such.
 

Stash

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That's possible, even if it's not ideal, since we did that with Frazier and Jones in 2017. I'd certainly rather see Heath free to roam the deep center. He's good at tracking the ball coming forward and has the speed to get to it on overthrows and such.

He has speed anyway...
 

Sydla

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Because I believe your portrayal of him isn't accurate. I believe you have demonstrated that your judgment is clouded when it comes to players like Heath. I don't like seeing that.

It's like a lot of critics of Prescott have to exaggerate his weaknesses or ignore his strengths for whatever reason. That makes any criticism of Prescott get lumped in with the overcritical assessments. Fair criticism is deserved. Some of you can't see past the bad of a player to be able to acknowledge the good. If that's who you want to be, so be it.

What isn't accurate? You yourself basically called him a bad SS. You think he's a decent FS but I think he's average to below average there as well. Are we that far apart?

What good of Heath do I need to acknowledge? Has he made some plays in his time here? Sure. But generally his play isn't good enough and doesn't outweigh the reality that he's a limited safety in this league, arguably one of the bottom third of NFL starting safeties.

And using this logic, are we supposed to acknowledge the good of all players, no matter how bad they are? In other words, let's not criticize them too harshly, because hey, they made a play or two once before.

Jeff Heath is an average to below average NFL safety. Trying to minimize that clear reality by claiming I have "bias" is laughable. In other words, if you don't agree with gimmesix's assessment of a player, then that person clearly has a bias.
 

Big_D

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Will heath be the one that pushes Garrett out the friggin door finally? Then I'm all for keeping him around. If there's a silver lining this could be it. lol
 

Stash

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Will heath be the one that pushes Garrett out the friggin door finally? Then I'm all for keeping him around. If there's a silver lining this could be it. lol

Blind faith and loyalty to "good guys" who don't make plays, like Heath, Crawford, and Hurns, as well as "comfort" with guys like Witten and Sean Lee who are on the downsides of their careers, might ultimately be his undoing.
 

Mr_437

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Agreed. What I'm expecting is a package of three safeties, depending on down/distance and circumstances where Iloka is out there in run support and Heath is out there for what look to be pure passing situations.
This is one strategy the former defensive passing game coordinator employed, and looks to still be the best course of action.

Richard got away from this, but I'd like to see a better tackler in the box over Heath/Woods. Frazier or Iloka could give a little thump to the box also.

If Heath is still the best man for the job, it is what it is.
 

Stash

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This is one strategy the former defensive passing game coordinator employed, and looks to still be the best course of action.

Richard got away from this, but I'd like to see a better tackler in the box over Heath/Woods. Frazier or Iloka could give a little thump to the box also.

If Heath is still the best man for the job, it is what it is.

I question the decision-making of anyone who is thinking that "Heath is the best man for the job", all evidence to the contrary.

Anyone who is making that decision should have their decision-making questioned.

Four Downs: NFC East

by Bryan Knowles

Welcome back to our offseason series of Four Downs. Over the next three weeks, we'll be reviewing each division one-by-one, looking at each team's biggest hole going into free agency as well as the most important players who may be on the market (provided they aren't franchise tagged or re-signed before March 5).

Dallas Cowboys
Biggest Hole: Secondary

In prior years, we have identified safety or cornerback as Dallas' biggest need in 2012, 2013 (twice), 2014, 2015, 2017, and 2018. We also included the secondary in questioning Dallas' "entire defense" in 2014.

Writing the Cowboys' biggest hole piece is one of the easiest jobs we have here at Football Outsiders. We have now used that opening paragraph in three straight seasons, and it still rings true -- the Cowboys' defensive backfield has needed major help for years. The good news for Cowboys fans is that 2018 saw Dallas take several strides to fixing their eternal secondary issues. Byron Jones moved back to corner, which better fits his skill set, and sophomore Xavier Woods represents a new day at free safety. That's half the starting secondary sorted, meaning they just need to fix the other half.

Jeff Heath can not tackle. We noted last year in this space that Heath had more missed tackles (11) than defeats (six). The problem got worse in 2018, as Heath's 22 broken tackles were the second-most allowed in the league. Heath just isn't a starting-caliber strong safety; he's a quality special teams player who has been promoted beyond his skill set. Bringing in a new safety -- either strong or free, as Woods would do just fine moving into the strong safety position -- would help a defense that ranked 19th or worse when covering tight ends, running backs, or third wideouts. In addition, cornerback Chidobe Awuzie finished 81st out of 85 qualified cornerbacks in success rate. Replacing either Heath or Awuzie, or preferably both, would help a defense that hasn't finished in the top 10 against the pass since 2007.



https://www.footballoutsiders.com/four-downs/2019/four-downs-nfc-east
 
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Chuck 54

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Personally, I don’t think safety is a big issue. We aren’t losing games over our safeties.
I hope we get better at the position and every position, but our safeties are not terrible.
 

Mr_437

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I question the decision-making of anyone who is thinking that "Heath is the best man for the job", all evidence to the contrary.

Anyone who is making that decision should have their decision-making questioned.

Four Downs: NFC East

by Bryan Knowles

Welcome back to our offseason series of Four Downs. Over the next three weeks, we'll be reviewing each division one-by-one, looking at each team's biggest hole going into free agency as well as the most important players who may be on the market (provided they aren't franchise tagged or re-signed before March 5).

Dallas Cowboys
Biggest Hole: Secondary

In prior years, we have identified safety or cornerback as Dallas' biggest need in 2012, 2013 (twice), 2014, 2015, 2017, and 2018. We also included the secondary in questioning Dallas' "entire defense" in 2014.

Writing the Cowboys' biggest hole piece is one of the easiest jobs we have here at Football Outsiders. We have now used that opening paragraph in three straight seasons, and it still rings true -- the Cowboys' defensive backfield has needed major help for years. The good news for Cowboys fans is that 2018 saw Dallas take several strides to fixing their eternal secondary issues. Byron Jones moved back to corner, which better fits his skill set, and sophomore Xavier Woods represents a new day at free safety. That's half the starting secondary sorted, meaning they just need to fix the other half.

Jeff Heath can not tackle. We noted last year in this space that Heath had more missed tackles (11) than defeats (six). The problem got worse in 2018, as Heath's 22 broken tackles were the second-most allowed in the league. Heath just isn't a starting-caliber strong safety; he's a quality special teams player who has been promoted beyond his skill set. Bringing in a new safety -- either strong or free, as Woods would do just fine moving into the strong safety position -- would help a defense that ranked 19th or worse when covering tight ends, running backs, or third wideouts. In addition, cornerback Chidobe Awuzie finished 81st out of 85 qualified cornerbacks in success rate. Replacing either Heath or Awuzie, or preferably both, would help a defense that hasn't finished in the top 10 against the pass since 2007.



https://www.footballoutsiders.com/four-downs/2019/four-downs-nfc-east
Richard n McClay have to be on the same page at S considering they didn't draft one high. I look at this as more of a Will McClay issue... even though this is a team philosophy to save $ by devaluing the S position.

Also, Frazier is a better box S than Heath imo...and they say they need a box S, maybe my opinion is wrong but how many tackles have you seen Kavon miss? (speaking n general)
 

Stash

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Richard n McClay have to be on the same page at S considering they didn't draft one high. I look at this as more of a Will McClay issue... even though this is a team philosophy to save $ by devaluing the S position.

Also, Frazier is a better box S than Heath imo...and they say they need a box S, maybe my opinion is wrong but how many tackles have you seen Kavon miss? (speaking n general)

I agree with you that I feel that Frazier is a much better option for strong safety. Why he was seemingly phased out after what I felt was a good 2017 is another head scratcher.
:huh:

But there are quite a few when it comes to the safety and defensive tackles positions on this team.
 

xwalker

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That he's a better pass defender? I don't think it is. Iloka is a slow, short-area zone defender. Heath is a fast, deep-coverage defender. If teams get Iloka isolated and take him deep, he will lose a lot of those battles. That's not really the case with Heath. The real problem with Heath is that he's a free safety being asked to play strong safety. If you go back and look at the tape after Dallas moved him to free safety in 2017, you would see if there are no prejudices clouding your judgment that he played quite well in the role.

What bugged me about Dallas elevating him to starting strong safety when Barry Church left is that they handed him the role based on his play as a backup deep safety. I never understood that. Here you had a player who showed that he's at his best playing the pass and you give him a run-heavy role.

The 1st season without Church was 2017.
You just (correctly) indicated that Heath played FS in 2017.

Health and Iloka likely split time at SS.
  • Heath on obvious passing downs.
  • Iloka on obvious run downs.
  • They'll complete to see who plays the other downs.
 

JBond

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According to some reports, Heath was the starting SS with Iloka backing him up.

Now it's OTAs, so it might only be a familiarity thing with Heath running with the 1s while Iloka and some of the young guys get up to speed.

But my god, if Jeff Heath is our opening day starting SS. These guys just can't "quit" mediocre players when they became coaches' pet cats.
I am assuming IIoka either doesn't have the leadership and skill to outright win the job, or he needs time to learn the system. Either way, I am not in the least bit impressed with our safety play the last 10 years.
 
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