For Those That Like Not Signing Free Agents And Say Its The Best Way, Why Do The Good Teams Do It?

[Diehardblues]

I thought so too, initially on Gregory. But maybe the tide is turning a little on him. Time will tell.

He’s going to be suspended indefinitely. That means at least no 2019 season.

 

[Diehardblues]

I don't expect it at this point but I think it's hilarious that people are actually claiming we operate like the Patriots do.

Of course it’s ridiculous. The results aren’t there while the attempt might be.

 

[DFWJC]

Take the Pats, the year before last they signed Stephon Gilmore, CB from the Bills.

5 yrs, $65 million, $31 guaranteed

I'm sure the homers here would all say "its stupid to spend that much on a free agent, they are not worth it".

In two seasons, including playoffs, he has 40 pass defenses, 6 picks, and was rated as the number one CB in the league by PFF this year.

He also intercepted Jared Goff in the SB to seal the win for the Pats.

So where did this myth come from that all free agents signed on day 1 are all overpriced, never live up to their contracts, and will cripple your cap? I wonder if the Pats regret signing Gilmore as they polish yet another Lombardi trophy?

Selective FA activity is a good idea.

The Pats are VERY selective. In fact, they're more prone to cut ties with someone just at or past their prime then hit the FA market on day one or two.

But yeah, they will go for it occasionally.

Overall, these day one guys live up to their deal...I would guess...maybe 1 out 10 times.
But it happens.

 

[Diehardblues]

You have to be a great talent evaluator to be effective in FA. That pretty well counts us out .

We’re better off in the draft where we aren’t financially strapped with big misses.

 

[jterrell]

The Cowboys and Commanders were off-season winners for a decade and they were mostly trash on the field. In Dallas' case they somehow managed to do that after finding an UDFA QB who became a franchisor player.
It is shockingly hard not to win under that scenario. But when you invent scheduled restructures and runt he cap like a credit card you too can achieve such lofty under-performance.

People are hilarious.
They hate on DAL now as if they didn't just figure out the right way to do business and manage a team about 4-5 years ago.

 

[lukin2006]

The FO right down to coaching is sub-standard. Yup, we sit on the sidelines instead of improving this team. How do we know this is S. Jones way...they started getting cheap when they hired JG...and as far as I'm concerned we overvalue our players.

We should trade Dlaw for a 1st round pick, it should be obvious that having bookend DE's are not doing much, let's sign some big DT's.

 

[Sydla]

The Cowboys and Commanders were off-season winners for a decade and they were mostly trash on the field. In Dallas' case they somehow managed to do that after finding an UDFA QB who became a franchisor player.
It is shockingly hard not to win under that scenario. But when you invent scheduled restructures and runt he cap like a credit card you too can achieve such lofty under-performance.

People are hilarious.
They hate on DAL now as if they didn't just figure out the right way to do business and manage a team about 4-5 years ago.

Yeah and in response to being burned on a few bad contracts, the Cowboys swung completely in the opposite direction where they are largely inactive in FA, content to sign backups and slop that most often has no real impact on the team. Instead of backing off the high profile, highly paid FAs and then looking at the real meat of FA, the mid-level types, they went to the opposite extreme and just churned the Nolan Carrolls of the world mostly.

The "right way to do business" has resulted in two playoff wins in 5 years. Yep, they got this whole thing figured out.

The only people who are hilarious right now are the ones who are throwing around Patriots comparisons and acting like we are running a SB caliber team out there every year due to our frugalness in FA.

 

[ConceptCoop]

Take the Pats, the year before last they signed Stephon Gilmore, CB from the Bills.

5 yrs, $65 million, $31 guaranteed

I'm sure the homers here would all say "its stupid to spend that much on a free agent, they are not worth it".

In two seasons, including playoffs, he has 40 pass defenses, 6 picks, and was rated as the number one CB in the league by PFF this year.

He also intercepted Jared Goff in the SB to seal the win for the Pats.

So where did this myth come from that all free agents signed on day 1 are all overpriced, never live up to their contracts, and will cripple your cap? I wonder if the Pats regret signing Gilmore as they polish yet another Lombardi trophy?

An exception does not prove the rule. GIlmore was the right move, that doesn't mean all high-priced FA are. The Pats pick their spots, like we should. They are very selective about where they spend their money. Just like the Cowboys, who made a very good offer to Sammy Watkins last off-season.

People need to realize that every big contract we sign over the next couple years likely means we lose one of our own guys.

 

[MrPhil]

People need to realize that every big contract we sign over the next couple years likely means we lose one of our own guys.

That is where my concern is. Off the top of my head, we have five key contributors whose contracts are up in the next year or two and are or will be looking for top dollar:

Lawrence
Prescott
Elliott
Jones
Smith

 

[ConceptCoop]

That is where my concern is. Off the top of my head, we have five key contributors whose contracts are up in the next year or two and are or will be looking for top dollar:

Lawrence
Prescott
Elliott
Jones
Smith

Yup. And Cooper.

It would be one thing if the Cowboys didn't pay to keep their guys. Or if they didn't have guys to pay, and still weren't spending in Free Agency. But we likely won't be able to sign everyone as it is, never mind after we add another big contract or 2.

Signing a FA CB for 13M/year is a lot sexier than extending Byrong Jones for that same amount, for example, but it's essentially the same thing. The Cowboys are going to pay out a lot of money this off-season.

 

[Sydla]

Yup. And Cooper.

It would be one thing if the Cowboys didn't pay to keep their guys. Or if they didn't have guys to pay, and still weren't spending in Free Agency. But we likely won't be able to sign everyone as it is, never mind after we add another big contract or 2.

Signing a FA CB for 13M/year is a lot sexier than extending Byrong Jones for that same amount, for example, but it's essentially the same thing. The Cowboys are going to pay out a lot of money this off-season.

Maybe they shouldn't then pay top dollar to all their guys. When people talk about how we are Patriots-lite, this is another reason why they are not. They don't get romantic with their guys and think they have to get all of them resigned. I have serious doubts the Patriots would even consider resigning a TB (frankly, I doubt they would have used the 4th pick on a TB but I digress) beyond his rookie year to a big contract.

I doubt they'd be willing to give Prescott $27-30MM a year as well.

 

[Blackspider214]

cowboys fans have been brainwashed into thinking Penny pinching is the right way. The truth is the cowboys suck at free agency and are scared.

Exactly. The "in" thing to do now for fans now is pat our front office on the back for not making "dumb" moves in free agency. Don't worry, though, we will swoop in for the scraps in the dumpster. We like to dumpster dive in free agency and brag about how much value we get for players no teams want.

 

[ConceptCoop]

Yeah and in response to being burned on a few bad contracts, the Cowboys swung completely in the opposite direction where they are largely inactive in FA, content to sign backups and slop that most often has no real impact on the team. Instead of backing off the high profile, highly paid FAs and then looking at the real meat of FA, the mid-level types, they went to the opposite extreme and just churned the Nolan Carrolls of the world mostly.

The "right way to do business" has resulted in two playoff wins in 5 years. Yep, they got this whole thing figured out.

The only people who are hilarious right now are the ones who are throwing around Patriots comparisons and acting like we are running a SB caliber team out there every year due to our frugalness in FA.

They are going to pay a lot of money to keep our own guys. Is letting Lawrence go and signing Clowney any different than just extending Lawrence? No. Except that some of our fanbase would pat the FO on the back for doing something flashy. If singing somebody like Collins or ET costs us Byron Jones, what did it really accomplish?

We're really just now getting a lot of bad money off of the books, and now have 6 pro-bowl talents to extend, potentially. The Cowboys are going to be spending a lot of money this off-season.

 

[Hennessy_King]

Pro player scouting is just as important as draft scouting. Our pro scouting department has been garbage for a while. And what a shocker there's a Garrett at the head of that department.

 

[ConceptCoop]

Maybe they shouldn't then pay top dollar to all their guys. When people talk about how we are Patriots-lite, this is another reason why they are not. They don't get romantic with their guys and think they have to get all of them resigned. I have serious doubts the Patriots would even consider resigning a TB (frankly, I doubt they would have used the 4th pick on a TB but I digress) beyond his rookie year to a big contract.

I doubt they'd be willing to give Prescott $27-30MM a year as well.

Is your argument that paying FAs is better than signing your own guys?

The Patriots selectively pay their guys, as we should. You don't think the Patriots would have extended Smith and Frederick and Martin? Are you suggesting we shouldn't have? We let Murray walk, just like Pats would have. Over the last decade, we've drafted a lot better than the Pats (in part because we've drafted earlier, on average), so we're going to have more guys like Smith, Frederick, and Martin to make those calls on.

Outside of Crawford, who have we re-signed that we shouldn't have, with the exception injuries that we couldn't have predicted?

As for Prescott, let's wait until the Cowboys actually give him 27-30 before disparaging them for doing so, yeah?

 

[Sydla]

They are going to pay a lot of money to keep our own guys. Is letting Lawrence go and signing Clowney any different than just extending Lawrence? No. Except that some of our fanbase would pat the FO on the back for doing something flashy. If singing somebody like Collins or ET costs us Byron Jones, what did it really accomplish?

We're really just now getting a lot of bad money off of the books, and now have 6 pro-bowl talents to extend, potentially. The Cowboys are going to be spending a lot of money this off-season.

Maybe trading Lawrence and bringing in a cheaper option like a Houston and then drafting a DE early is wiser? Maybe not hand over a big contract to a TB?

You seem to think it's simple math......... let a CB go, sign a high priced CB in return. That's not how it has to work. The Patriots are masters of this. They let big names walk and get paid and find cheaper options that they make work. They just did it with Flowers. They let their best pass rusher walk in FA but made a trade to bring in a Bennett who is nothing but a one year cap hit for them at $7MM. It gives them a good edge player to replace Flowers and gives them long term flexibility.

You are then left with hoping that the draft every single year delivers immediate impact players to fill in the holes. And how likely is that? Further, that doesn't even take into account the cyclical nature of all of this. An inability or refusal to add key veterans in FA that can make immediate impacts results in a team that is constantly in a state of flux because as they draft and develop to fill holes and needs, another area of the team ages and then has to be replaced itself.

The front office lacks vision, creativity and aggressiveness. It shows in the flawed roster they continually field and likely will field for the next few years.

 

[Vanilla2]

If the good teams jumped off a cliff....

 

[ConceptCoop]

Pro player scouting is just as important as draft scouting. Our pro scouting department has been garbage for a while. And what a shocker there's a Garrett at the head of that department.

I think that's largely fair. But it's also fair to point out that they hit a homerun with Amari. The rest of the league was laughing at us, but we were right on him as a player.

 

[Hennessy_King]

I think that's largely fair. But it's also fair to point out that they hit a homerun with Amari. The rest of the league was laughing at us, but we were right on him as a player.

let me know how many we missed on. I liked the amari trade when it happened.

 

[Sydla]

Is your argument that paying FAs is better than signing your own guys?

The Patriots selectively pay their guys, as we should. You don't think the Patriots would have extended Smith and Frederick and Martin? Are you suggesting we shouldn't have? We let Murray walk, just like Pats would have. Over the last decade, we've drafted a lot better than the Pats (in part because we've drafted earlier, on average), so we're going to have more guys like Smith, Frederick, and Martin to make those calls on.

Outside of Crawford, who have we re-signed that we shouldn't have, with the exception injuries that we couldn't have predicted?

As for Prescott, let's wait until the Cowboys actually give him 27-30 before disparaging them for doing so, yeah?

My argument is that it might not be wise to pay ALL OF YOUR PLAYERS. Great teams make hard decisions and let some of their better players walk before locking them up to huge contracts.

For example, I don't think the Patriots would have extended all three of those OL. Probably one or two, probably Smith for sure as a LT he's the most valuable. They never would have tied all that money up in one area for long term. As for us? I don't necessarily have a problem with signing all three long term but that should have had a cascade effect. If you spend so much in building a great OL, you probably don't need to then spend the resources they probably will at TB. Especially in a league where you see teams win SBs with far less investment in the TB position that we have (or will) spend. So because we locked up our OL with big time contracts, to me, the hard choice is to then say thanks but no thanks to Elliott on a long term deal. Draft a RB in the middle rounds (or they should have done so already).

The Patriots love having the salary/cap flexibility they have each year so they can make trades, add FAs, etc. They would never just lock up all by signing all their best players to big contracts. They have shown they have no problem moving some of those guys out just so they can have the flexibility they want.