FWST: Phillips takes high road with critics but points out he has won more than BP

[dbair1967]

Parcells >>>> Phillips

The Parcells that coached the Giants, yeah.

The Parcells coach we got, no.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

The Parcells that coached the Giants, yeah.

The Parcells coach we got, no.

Parcells >>> Phillips

 

[clutch88]

Wade Phillips is a excuse making idiot, the cowboys used to be about superbowls but sadly we have a head coach who is satisfied with his record on a team he took over that parcells built. This is why we need a real GM to lead us and let jerry promote fights.

 

[Doomsay]

Wade Phillips is a excuse making idiot, the cowboys used to be about superbowls but sadly we have a head coach who is satisfied with his record on a team he took over that parcells built. This is why we need a real GM to lead us and let jerry promote fights.

On a pure rational results basis, this premise is hard to argue with. But it's not really about Wade as you suggest, he was never meant to be our savior, Wade was just another one of Jerry's punts.

I suspect that our epic failures to get to at least to the conference championship game over the last 3 years with the talent level that we have had will be legendary. It was a better and a different season than last year, but still a horrible collapse in the division round - no tangible ground gained from 2 years ago. Some coaches have it, Wade clearly doesn't. Coffee is for closers.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

Its not the same thing. Switzer's teams never played as well as Jimmy's teams did. Wade's teams have been better than Parcells' teams.

Has Romo not matured? Have other players not matured? That is when you go from placing the blocks to the finished product. That is what guys like you will never get. Every thing starts with a foundation and goes from there.

Parcells built that foundation, even credit Jones for that if you need to.
Phillips arrived with a very strong foundation in place. It's easy to go up from there. Give he and Jones credit for doing it.

That still doesn't make Phillips the better coach. I would love to see what Phillips could do with a team that was 5-11. Only because it would prove guys like you so wrong.

If all we get out of Phillips is another one and done are you going to still sing his praises? I can say this much, if he does get the Boys a ring I'll sing like a canary, another one and done and I want him gone.

 

[wileedog]

Look, if you ask Chocolate Lab I'm the biggest Parcells homer ever. So I will only say this.

The point is not if Wade > Parcells or vice versa. As has been mentioned multiple times the comparison of what those two coaches did with their tenure in Dallas are not comparable, as both were given completely different teams to start with, particularly at QB.

That said, what Parcells accomplished made possible for what it is that Wade has the potential to accomplish. He came in and helped Jerry understand he really doesn't know everything there is to know about football. He IMO helped him understand how to rely on the opinion of others when it comes to make decisions, even if he is ultimately making the decision. He changed the culture of the team from perennial losers to a team who understands winning, and got rid of some of the old guard scouts who weren't quite up to snuff. He left a nucleus of talent, again most importantly at QB.

But ultimately he burnt out on the sidelines, and stepped aside. He wanted a FO job and that obviously wasn't happening here.

What Wade does with the environment Bill created is up to him. After two disappointing ends to seasons, Wade finally won a Wild Card game. And I do give him full credit for personnel decisions like Spencer and Jenkins and Brooking.

But he is playing a different game than Parcells was. Bill was trying to turn around a moribund franchise in the gutter with an at that time clueless GM who needed a 'mentor' and return it to respectability.

Wade is charged with taking that foundation to the next level. After two years of failure, he has shown a glimmer of hope. Next year - with a 1st place schedule - will tell the tale. Can Wade do it? We'll see.

If Wade takes the team to the next level and gets to the SB good for him, and for us. I will be here and give him full credit.

But I think the two jobs the coaches faced we're different. As if we are comparing the guy who is supposed to build the foundation of the house with the guy who is responsible adding the furniture and carpeting and drapes.

Both are important to build a first class house. But they have completely different goals.

This isn't a zero sum game. You can't say Parcells did a terrible job and Wade has been great, because Wade wouldn't have had the opportunity to be anything if Parcells didn't reshape the franchise. And conversely you can't take everything Wade has accomplished away from him 3 years after Bill has been gone.

And if Wade can build on this year and wins something beyond a Wild Card game next year, you certainly can't take that away from him. He won with his team, and he brought the team a championship.

Its not Bill's team anymore, its Wade's. Bill provided the environment for Wade to do so, but it will be his achievements next year if he gets there. This year wasn't enough.

 

[Doomsay]

The real horrible aspect of all this Wade/Bill analysis, is that Wade really isn't a head coach. He has so much less to do with this team's formation and game day performance than Parcells did that it is almost unfair to make a comparison. He's a DC with a red protest handkerchief, not much more.

 

[dbair1967]

The real horrible aspect of all this Wade/Bill analysis, is that Wade really isn't a head coach. He has so much less to do with this team's formation and game day performance than Parcells did that it is almost unfair to make a comparison. He's a DC with a red protest handkerchief, not much more.

Actually this isnt true, because Phillips does the defensive game plans and makes all the calls himself. So he has MORE to do with the Cowboys success or failure than Parcells did on gamedays.

Parcells called offensive plays for all or part of his first season, after that everything was delegated out.

 

[hawklegion]

The Parcells that coached the Giants, yeah.

The Parcells coach we got, no.

I could not disagree more, Parcell's first season was a thing of coaching beauty. He took a group that managed just 5 wins for 3 straight seasons and went 10-6. That is simply incredible. I sometimes disliked Parcell's conservative play-calling but as HC he did an excellent job.

Edit - Do need to add though that by the end I think Parcells was worn out.

 

[TNCowboy]

The Parcells that coached the Giants, yeah.

The Parcells coach we got, no.

You're in a pretty small club there. :laugh2:

 

[The Emperor]

Maybe because Parcells is regarded as one of the best coaches ever.

Like it or not, BP almost has Deity status. You can't deny that BPs resume and reputation takes a big steamy piss all over Wade's. There is no question.

Wade Phillips has nothing to compare to Parcells.

I've grown to like Wade in the past short while but he's a total nut in saying this.

Yeah, and what did Bill Parcells' resume' do in Dallas? The same thing Jimmy Johnson's resume' did in Miami.

I don't understand these people.

 

[dbair1967]

You're in a pretty small club there. :laugh2:

People are entitled to think what they want.

I thought he was a superb coach with the Giants, after that he was just a decent coach, and he was never anything without Belichick.

The Parcells we got came back for the money and nothing else IMO. He was a lousy game day coach here and we were constantly outcoached by other teams. Our teams werent very disciplined under him, nor did the tackling get much better after he took over. The team never got "better", they stayed stagnant despite him doing a good job over the 4yrs of adding talent. I also though he hired alot of poor assistants and keeping Mike Zimmer, when he knew he wanted to be a 3-4 team was a huge mistake. And that doesnt even take into account his obsession with his FOB's, a couple of whom were decent adds, but many were just guys who got in the way of progress.

People keep referring to that 2003 team, but they proved late in the season and in the playofs what they were, an average team that got into the playoffs because of a poor schedule. The fact that that teams 10-6 record was the best he ever did here, despite being the least talented team he had in the 4 years should also tell you something.

Again it was the right move by Jerry to get him. He did a great job getting the front office and scouting department straightened out. But I thought he was painfully average as a HC and there's really not much anybody can say or do to convince me otherwise. Like he said, you are what your record says. And our record here under him was average.

 

[Hoofbite]

Actually this isnt true, because Phillips does the defensive game plans and makes all the calls himself. So he has MORE to do with the Cowboys success or failure than Parcells did on gamedays.

Parcells called offensive plays for all or part of his first season, after that everything was delegated out.

You believe this?

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

1. Bringing his old Giant's players in to help coach the Cowboys. He should have looked to some of the Cowboy greats that helped mold this franchise.

2. Turning Julius's running style into a very robotic style. Thus the immediate downfall.

3. Ryan Young anyone? How about Jacob Rogers?

4. Possibly waiting a season or more longer than he should have before realizing Tony Romo had something that Bledsoe and the others didn't.

5. For having one foot in retirement and one foot in the HC office for his last couple of years here. We weren't sure if he was energized enough to continue. Yeah I'll say it, he basically quit on the Cowboys in my opinion.

But who cares about all that, it was Bill Parcells. A living legend.

Wade deserves some credit. And if he wants to very subtley give himself some, then by all means.

Wade is a legend. Just ask the E-girls? :eagles:

 

[Idgit]

You're in a pretty small club there. :laugh2:

His club's not that small. Parcels did a lot of good for us, but he wasn't the coach he was earlier in his career, and he didn't have the same quality of staff he'd had earlier. And Wade's been notoriously underrated by Cowboy fans who mistake his bearing in a press conference with his ability to coach a team.

 

[BAT]

For those comparing Switzer to Wade, I have to laugh. Switzer was a figurehead. His coordinators came up with the game plans, w/out much, if ANY input from Switzer. Switzer was just happy to be in the NFL, truth was, he did not earn the right to be a NFL coach, let alone coach of the best team in the league, of the decade, maybe all time. You cannot say that about Wade. Wade has earned his shot the right way, he has the experience and success in the NFL, no matter what you may think of his personality.

And for the last time, THIS team is not Parcells' team. There may be players who played for both, but the offensive, defensive and ST philosophy, scheme and attitude (aggressive big play mentality vs. conservative play not to lose) are completely Wade's. Every guy on the team is NOW a Wade's guy. Every single one.

Which is a good thing. Parcells had previous success, but as a Cowboys' coach he was a mass of negativity. Not to mention he was as wishy washy as Brett Favre is about retirement. In the end Parcells was a quitter, which perfectly describes his teams' performance in key games. Parcells' guys loved to talk, but walked on pins and needles b/c Parcells was quick to point out his players' failures (publically and privately), his players played with fake swagger. It took a while, but that fake stuff is starting to fade.

 

[dbair1967]

You believe this?

Whats not to believe,? Its a fact.

If Phillips coaches a really good game defensively, we have a tremendous chance to win, if he doesnt, its tougher. He's not only making the game plans, he calling those plays.

Regardless of what Parcells did, he wasnt going to impact the games themselves that much because he main decisions were whether to punt or go for it on 4th downs, maybe who to play etc etc. He wasnt the master motivator he was with the Giants. Parcells called plays for alot of that first season (offensively) but after that, it was delegated to other coaches.

I think ANY coach, regardless of who he is has a much more dramatic impact on a particular games outcome if they also serve as the playcaller. Thats one of the reasons coaches like Holmgren, Shanahan, Turner etc etc call their own plays. They believe they are experts at it and that its unlikely they could hire someone better than themselves to handle the playcalling, which in their minds improves their chances to win a game.

 

[Hoofbite]

Whats not to believe,? Its a fact.

If Phillips coaches a really good game defensively, we have a tremendous chance to win, if he doesnt, its tougher. He's not only making the game plans, he calling those plays.

Regardless of what Parcells did, he wasnt going to impact the games themselves that much because he main decisions were whether to punt or go for it on 4th downs, maybe who to play etc etc. He wasnt the master motivator he was with the Giants. Parcells called plays for alot of that first season (offensively) but after that, it was delegated to other coaches.

I think ANY coach, regardless of who he is has a much more dramatic impact on a particular games outcome if they also serve as the playcaller. Thats one of the reasons coaches like Holmgren, Shanahan, Turner etc etc call their own plays. They believe they are experts at it and that its unlikely they could hire someone better than themselves to handle the playcalling, which in their minds improves their chances to win a game.

What's not to believe?

The man didn't even pick his OC. Say what you want about calling the defense, Wade has less to say about the offense than Parcells ever would have allowed.

You better believe that BP had control over what was happening on both sides of the ball. Wade has his side and Red takes the other.

And you're right. Expert coaches call their own plays which makes you wonder what the hell Wade was doing letting that doofus of a DC call plays last year.

Bringing us to the last point of this season being the 1st without a DC meaning BP and Wade called for 1 season a piece, as it stands.

BP had his hands all over what was happening on game days. If you think Wade is even remotely in the same area, I think you're delusional.

 

[Aliencowboy]

Bill (Parcells) won 34 in four years and previous one before that won 34 in six or eight. That's the only thing. I just don't think people realize how hard it is to win."

Wow, first time I've seen Wade look small.

Yeah, the difference Wade is that Parcels was building a team and not
taking over one that should have had a SuperBowl appearance already.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

People are entitled to think what they want.

I thought he was a superb coach with the Giants, after that he was just a decent coach, and he was never anything without Belichick.

The Parcells we got came back for the money and nothing else IMO. He was a lousy game day coach here and we were constantly outcoached by other teams. Our teams werent very disciplined under him, nor did the tackling get much better after he took over. The team never got "better", they stayed stagnant despite him doing a good job over the 4yrs of adding talent. I also though he hired alot of poor assistants and keeping Mike Zimmer, when he knew he wanted to be a 3-4 team was a huge mistake. And that doesnt even take into account his obsession with his FOB's, a couple of whom were decent adds, but many were just guys who got in the way of progress.

People keep referring to that 2003 team, but they proved late in the season and in the playofs what they were, an average team that got into the playoffs because of a poor schedule. The fact that that teams 10-6 record was the best he ever did here, despite being the least talented team he had in the 4 years should also tell you something.

Again it was the right move by Jerry to get him. He did a great job getting the front office and scouting department straightened out. But I thought he was painfully average as a HC and there's really not much anybody can say or do to convince me otherwise. Like he said, you are what your record says. And our record here under him was average.

How can you say Parcells did a great job with all that but not with the players? When he got here he had drug addicts and thugs. How any one thought ANY coach could straighten out (as you say yourself) The front office and scouting department. Now let me add, GM,druggies and some players just dumb as bricks in three seasons is beyond me. Then on top of that Jones reverts and signs the biggest self centered idiot in the NFL.

Did Parcells bring in old players? Sure he did. I would have also. There was now way one man could change all of the above with out having the examples
of how players should act and work.

It will never cease to amaze me how people don't see how much the Cowbow fans owe Parcells. I guarantee you if we went from Campo to Phillips we would still be a laughing stock.

For the sake of argument, Parcells = no SB in Dallas
Phillips has equaled as much so far, in a far improved situation.
I hope Phillips proves all us doubters wrong, I really do.