Game turned when they put Zeke back in for Pollard

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by CowboyRoy, Nov 8, 2020.

  1. MyFairLady

    MyFairLady Well-Known Member

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    The question you need to ask yourself is what it would look like now if Zeke tried to run a 110 m hurdles. When I think about it now I just laugh to myself then feel bad for the hurdles.
     
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  2. Sydla

    Sydla Well-Known Member

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    Lengths people go to in order to not admit what's staring them in the face - Elliott isn't an elite back at this point in his career and we likely made a mistake paying him all that money last year.
     
  3. Typhus

    Typhus Catching Catfish

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    Malcolm Brown for example.
     
  4. Typhus

    Typhus Catching Catfish

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    Its not just that,, its making any RB a franchise payed player.
    Been preaching forever and a day,,, never pay a second contract to any RB,, maybe Henry, but he a true beast, but I probably wouldnt, not even an redo extension ..lol
    Dime a dozen if you got the rest of your house in order.
     
    aria likes this.
  5. aria

    aria Well-Known Member

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    Did you see our QB play, it was horrendous, you could have had the 2014 O line out there and we wouldn’t have scored many more points. It also doesn’t help when our players our turning the ball over left and right.

    They are statistically ranked 9th right now. If you don’t want to believe the stats, that’s up to you but it’s awfully convenient when some people use the same stats one week to defend their argument and discredit the same stats a month later to defend a different argument (again, not pointing the finger at you).
     
  6. Typhus

    Typhus Catching Catfish

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    But my point I try and drive home with no ears listening,, is never even pay an elite back.
    Frank Gore is still productive.. man still playing this game and never got Zeke money.
    There is just a very obvious approach at handling the RB position, but we are in love with replacing great memories, Jerry is still in love with the concept of Emmitt Smith.
    Those days are history.
     
  7. RonnieT24

    RonnieT24 Well-Known Member

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    I strongly suspect his injury history was a big part of the reason he lasted so long. He missed 3 games at Okie state senior year. As for him and Zeke being "comparable?" He currently sits more than 250 yards behind Zeke in yards.. and he has not had the Three Stooges playing QB at any point for him this season. Well two stooges.. Gilbert actually looked decent. Carson has exactly 1 more 20+ yard run than Zeke this year.. but Zeke has been credited with 11 broken tackles this year to Carson's 3. Can you say "better blocking?" Zeke has 5 rushing TDs and one receiving.. Carson has 3 rushing TDs and none receiving. Taken as a whole they are not anywhere near "comparable." I've already stated that as long as the line continues to allow free roaming defenders in our backfield Zeke is not going to shine. Pollard might occasionally shine when they open a gaping hole but he gets trapped for a loss on a third of his carries behind this line and lacks Zeke's power to at least turn it into a no gain or maybe a positive yard or two. When defenders grab Pollard in the backfield the play is pretty much over. That said.. I have said repeatedly that if we're going to be a primarily shotgun run team Pollard is better suited for it. If we want to be a power run team then obviously that favors Zeke.. When we drafted Zeke we wanted to be a power running team.. Now we other can't or don't want to. The line has fallen apart and the OC has decided that passing 70% of the time is the way to go. None of which is Zeke's fault.
     
  8. aria

    aria Well-Known Member

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    The master of spin! So the sacks had nothing to do with the QB or pocket awareness? You remind me of the people who used to say the Giants O line was good in 2018 because Eli had one of the least amount of sacks. Do you know why he had one of the least amount of sacks behind one of the very worst O lines in football? Because he got rid of it about as quick as it hit hands.

    Zeke has been grabbed by the grass monster more than once this year and one time was for a safety with no defender within 10 feet of him. I’m sure you’ll come up with an excuse to blame the O line for those plays as well. How many plays did he have wide open lanes? I didn’t record it so I can’t go back and count but I remember several, where’s your stat for that?

    You always claim how much better zeke is than Barkley and how bad the Cowboys O line is, why don’t you give me the same stats for when the Giants played the Steeler on MNF this year? I remember people using that game as evidence that Barkley wasn’t as good as zeke and the O line was never even mentioned. Or I could use the same reasoning that people use for Barkley, “zeke wasn’t hitting the holes fast enough, he’s not good at reading defenses, he was dancing around too much”.

    Of course all of this was before our O line fell apart so people weren’t using the O line excuse, pretty convenient now, isn’t it? Zeke has done nothing special this year, actually for several years and he’s arguably hurting the team more then helping it. I can think of more losses he’s significantly contributed to than wins. There are several other RB’s in the league that would put up similar or better numbers in the same situations.

    BTW, so you just came out of the middle of nowhere this year when zeke is having is worst year by far. How much is he paying you as his PR guy?
     
  9. CowboyRoy

    CowboyRoy Well-Known Member

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    I’m saying Zeke shouldn’t be here and pollard and two other similar young backs should be in a committee.

    I’m also saying that despite Zeke big salary, the most effective back should get the most carries.
     
  10. CalPolyTechnique

    CalPolyTechnique Well-Known Member

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    Why are you trying to boil down the comparison to 8 games Zeke’s played to Carson’s six?

    C’mon maayne, you’re just throwing it against the wall Ronnie.

    The comparison I’m making is that both Zeke and Carson are power/ball control backs that aren’t especially dynamic as runners.

    Zeke has slightly better numbers on paper due to volume.

    In 2019, Zeke ran for 1,357 yards on 301 carries (4.5 YPC). He had 23 more carries than Carson. Do you know what Carson’s yardage would have projected to be w/those 23 extra carries?

    1,331 with a 4.4 YPC.

    In 2018, Zeke had 57 more carries than Carson. Based on Carson’s YPC, he would been around 1,419 yards (Zeke had 1,434 that season).

    When did the o-line fall apart? This season? Yeah, totally agree, but you’ve been arguing about Zeke’s greatness and referencing past seasons to prove it.
     
  11. RonnieT24

    RonnieT24 Well-Known Member

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    Carson is going to go for 250+ yards in the next two games?

    It has been shown time and again that with volume a back's ypc DECREASES .. And Caron has never shown the durability to even GET those additional carries..

    Help me out .. is that more or less than what Zeke had?


    So again.. is that more or less? Zeke gets the ball more because he shows up and produces. At no point have I argued that he is NOT having a down year for a variety of reasons. What I WILL argue is that what we have seen from him post Covid, without OTAs, with the line in shambles, and oh yeah.. without a competent QB to back the defense off, is representative of who he is. When Dak was playing Zeke was doing just fine.. I believe he was top 3 or 4 in the league then.. And that was with reduced carries because of the big deficits. The only game he had below 4 ypc was Seattle when basically the entire line fell apart.. His production was GOING to dip without Dak unless the o-line got it together. To this point they haven't. There are defenders waiting to greet our backs when they take the handoff on 30-40% of our runs.
     
  12. RoyTheHammer

    RoyTheHammer Well-Known Member

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    What you said what complete nonsense. 6 RBs? LMAO
     
  13. CalPolyTechnique

    CalPolyTechnique Well-Known Member

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    :facepalm:

    Folks, what you’re seeing here is a football message board version of pious fraud aka “lying for Jeeezus.”
     
  14. LACowboysFan1

    LACowboysFan1 Well-Known Member

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    No need for insults. First of all I fully explained what I meant by 6 RBs, which I ASSUMED you understood I exaggerated to make a point. Guess not, but obviously you ASSUMED I was just stupid.

    This is forum for discussion, if you don't like my opinion you are free to say so and give yours. But belittlement will get you a quick addition to my blocked list. Which is very small, most here are real Cowboys fans who respect others' opinions. If you do not, then we have no further back and forth to do...
     
  15. LACowboysFan1

    LACowboysFan1 Well-Known Member

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    Fine, but if the most effective back gets the most carries and is very successful, do you think he'll play for a much lesser salary than Zeke, if he even stays on the Cowboys? Or will you have to pay him the $13 million or more, or let some other team pay him? So you'll likely have the same Zeke situation again. Or you can get two more young backs and get them in sync with the offense.

    And running back by committee doesn't work that well, looking at the latest SB for instance, the 49ers used 3 different rushers, who had 12, 5 and 3 rushes. KC had one with 17 and one with 1. Who won? Chiefs.
    SB 2018, Pats had one back with 18 rushes and one with 7, Rams 10 and 7. Pats won.
    SB 2017, both teams had carries split fairly evenly, butit was a weird game with the big comeback by the Pats, so that game is somewhat an aberration.
    SB 2016, Broncos had 23 carries by Anderson and 5 by Hillman, Panthers had 3 backs with 12, 4 and 5 carries.

    It' still true, if you have the "bell cow" back who gets most of the carries, that team tends to be the most successful....
     
  16. kskboys

    kskboys Well-Known Member

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    Judging from the responses I've seen, most appear to have no clue whatsoever about what you posted. Or how to read. Good stuff, Ron.
     
  17. kskboys

    kskboys Well-Known Member

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    KC just spent their 1st on a bell cow back. Looks like the super bowl winner disagrees w/ that RB by committee thingie.
     
  18. RonnieT24

    RonnieT24 Well-Known Member

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    It's okay.. I think a lot of these folks think the game on the field is just like they see it when they play Madden.. What they don't get is that these guys are not computer programs. Their level of performance is not consistent.. They don't run the same speed every play.. They slow down and get weaker as the game wears. Defenses attack our run game differently when Zeke is in the game vs Pollard. Yes Pollard might gash them for a big run every now and then but if they let Zeke get rolling they know they have no chance of stopping our offense. It's going to be 5 yards on first down, 6 yards on second, play action for a big pass down the middle.. then 5 yards on first down.... Every team that faces the Cowboys knows this. And they commit resources to try and prevent it from happening. I like what Pollard brings to the table and I think he is perfectly suited for the change of pace back role. I'm not sure he will ever be ready to carry the full load. The argument now is that you no longer need a back to do that and that's fair. But even teams that don't have a Zeke have a "lead dog" .. That guy may not carry it 25 times a game.. but he carries it more than the other guys.. A lot more. People get caught up in Zeke's salary and say "we can get the same production cheaper." Maybe you can... but can you get the same commitment from every defense we face to trying to stop him? Can you use that to open up your passing game? That's the real question. Not can Zeke lead the league in rushing ever again.. but can Zeke help this team win at the highest level. Time will tell on both counts.
     
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  19. CowboyRoy

    CowboyRoy Well-Known Member

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    I dont think the Cowboys make this dumb mistake again to be honest. When you have a great Oline, generally, then you should just rotate young backs in and out. Trade them when they appear over valued because of our a great Oline.

    What Jerry did was simply a complication of the first bad decision he made. ANOTHER reason why I HATED Garrett. These are the types of decisions he pushed for. Drafting Zeke #4 overall was the first huge mistake. And so therefore Jerry felt obliged to go all in when he shouldnt have.

    Pollard is going into his 3rd year. In a perfect world without Zeke, I would looking at drafting another skilled young back with a middle round pick probably next year. Always the year or two before an incumbents contract is up.
     
  20. QuincyCarterEra

    QuincyCarterEra Well-Known Member

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