Garrett/Romo/Witten BFF

[Miller]

So it has crossed my mind before and I actually talked to a friend about this last year but until I heard it being discussed on the radio this morning it didn't really hit. I'm not ripping each person because I'm a Romo fan and a Witten fan...not a JG one...but that isn't the point. Is it normal for players and a HC to pal around with each other? Is this happening anywhere else? So the three of them are at Springsteen. There have been many other occasions where they have been at Mavs games or playoff games from sports, etc. I can't think of any other coach/player combo in any sport where they just hung out and didn't have a senior/junior relationship.

I guess it comes down to Is this a conflict of interest for JG and Jerry. Jerry says the offense is Romo friendly and obviously they hang out so does JG get a pass because of this bond and being semi, off field BFFs?

I'm honestly racking my brain and wondering if this is going on with any other team in any professional sport. I'm fine that they enjoy each others company. Not sure on how it affects interest of the team.

 

[Idgit]

It's a bit unseemly, in my opinion. But we're talking about the occasional basketball game or FA recruiting outing here? Or does it go beyond that?

I've had bosses I'd do occasional social outings with. People I liked but where we still maintained professional personal distance. I've had employees I've crossed over and become friends with over a lot of time. From my experience, it complicates the professional relationship but not so much that it really blurred any important lines. Letting those employees go, for example, was hard, but we managed it fairly easily and it didn't affect the friendship.

As far as Garrett's job security goes, I've never felt that's seriously been in question, anyway. The team and the players like him much much more than the fans do.

 

[Doomsday101]

So it has crossed my mind before and I actually talked to a friend about this last year but until I heard it being discussed on the radio this morning it didn't really hit. I'm not ripping each person because I'm a Romo fan and a Witten fan...not a JG one...but that isn't the point. Is it normal for players and a HC to pal around with each other? Is this happening anywhere else? So the three of them are at Springsteen. There have been many other occasions where they have been at Mavs games or playoff games from sports, etc. I can't think of any other coach/player combo in any sport where they just hung out and didn't have a senior/junior relationship.

I guess it comes down to Is this a conflict of interest for JG and Jerry. Jerry says the offense is Romo friendly and obviously they hang out so does JG get a pass because of this bond and being semi, off field BFFs?

I'm honestly racking my brain and wondering if this is going on with any other team in any professional sport. I'm fine that they enjoy each others company. Not sure on how it affects interest of the team.

I don't know Demarco Murray would join in as well with Romo, Witten and Garrett but that did not prevent the Cowboys from moving on from Murray.

 

[Miller]

It's a bit unseemly, in my opinion. But we're talking about the occasional basketball game or FA recruiting outing here? Or does it go beyond that?

I've had bosses I'd do occasional social outings with. People I liked but where we still maintained professional personal distance. I've had employees I've crossed over and become friends with over a lot of time. From my experience, it complicates the professional relationship but not so much that it really blurred any important lines. Letting those employees go, for example, was hard, but we managed it fairly easily and it didn't affect the friendship.

As far as Garrett's job security goes, I've never felt that's seriously been in question, anyway. The team and the players like him much much more than the fans do.

Agree. And despite me not having a fondness for his coaching I never thought this would cause too many issues but today's conversation just got me thinking if there were many professional coaches that went out with the "face of the franchise" type guys. I can't think of any. It also takes me back to T.O and his issues with Romo/Witten/Playcalling. I just find it a little strange how those 3 might seem "untouchable" or that those 3 may try and call the shots a little more than others. i.e Romo telling Jerry he wants JG, etc. Like you said is it Springsteen, some games and FA recruits or more? Just an observation.

I don't know Demarco Murray would join in as well with Romo, Witten and Garrett but that did not prevent the Cowboys from moving on from Murray.

Right! JG did fight for DeMarco hard though...which is understandable.

Dynamic is just strange to me...actually more from Romo's side

 

[Idgit]

Agree. And despite me not having a fondness for his coaching I never thought this would cause too many issues but today's conversation just got me thinking if there were many professional coaches that went out with the "face of the franchise" type guys. I can't think of any. It also takes me back to T.O and his issues with Romo/Witten/Playcalling. I just find it a little strange how those 3 might seem "untouchable" or that those 3 may try and call the shots a little more than others. i.e Romo telling Jerry he wants JG, etc. Just an observation.

Right! JG did fight for DeMarco hard though...which is understandable.

Dynamic is just strange to me...actually more from Romo's side

I think TO was probably right on about the dynamic in the locker room. He was just stupid to comment on it publicly. Those guys in their prime, they called the shots. They still do, I'm sure, but they definitely did back ~2007.

The Romo-Garrett dynamic is hard for me to get a read on. They seem like they're in lock-step, but when you hear Tony say things about Garrett publicly, it's always positive, but it's fairly subdued and fairly generic. He seemed to really like working not-with-Garrett on the play calling change when Linehan came in. That might have been a reflection on Callahan instead, but Garrett was involved that season after the GB game. But then they hang out socially.

I *think* the reality is that they're very close and they downplay things publicly to not highlight it too much, but I"m not 100% sure of that. Overall, though, I've always thought Garrett/Stephen/Romo/Jerry were a lot closer than people wanted to believe. Jerry likes to run his organizations like a family, and he trusts this team. I think even with another off year it's not a given they make sweeping changes, honestly.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Is it normal for players and a HC to pal around with each other?

Perhaps not normal but it's not a big deal either. All 3 have been associated with the team for a long time and are obviously friends. We have for more important things to be concerned about with regards to our football team.

 

[Miller]

Perhaps not normal but it's not a big deal either. All 3 have been associated with the team for a long time and are obviously friends. We have for more important things to be concerned about with regards to our football team.

I'm not sure at times we do. I think the way the team is run/set up may be just as much a problem the last 20 years as "do we have the right DT?" To me it all goes together.

 

[Doomsday101]

I'm not sure at times we do. I think the way the team is run/set up may be just as much a problem the last 20 years as "do we have the right DT?" To me it all goes together.

why Garrett has not been here the 20 years. I do know that when we have had very good seasons in that span people like Jerry are said to have no involvement in it but come up with a poor season and it is all Jerry fault. There clearly have been moves I have not liked and gambles that did not pay off over the course of time and yes Jerry is the last word so it falls on him. Problem I have always had with this board if how wishy washy some are very quick to cast blame but will come up with every excuse of why Jerry deserves no credit when things have gone well.

Really same with Jason, after the 13-3 season his critics were fast to claim he had nothing to do with it he was just standing on the sidelines yet after this past season it was all his fault. It gets to the point of being comical. Don't get me wrong I think there is plenty of blame to go around but credit seems to be hard to come by

 

[Miller]

why Garrett has not been here the 20 years. I do know that when we have had very good seasons in that span people like Jerry are said to have no involvement in it but come up with a poor season and it is all Jerry fault. There clearly have been moves I have not liked and gambles that did not pay off over the course of time and yes Jerry is the last word so it falls on him. Problem I have always had with this board if how wishy washy some are very quick to cast blame but will come up with every excuse of why Jerry deserves no credit when things have gone well.

Really same with Jason, after the 13-3 season his critics were fast to claim he had nothing to do with it he was just standing on the sidelines yet after this past season it was all his fault. It gets to the point of being comical. Don't get me wrong I think there is plenty of blame to go around but credit seems to be hard to come by

I understand this completely. Really do and I don't think it's all on one person. I'm not a person who has ever been anti-Jerry, despite making fun of his ramblings, etc.. In fact I cheered the guy getting rid of Landry for Jimmy(blasphemous!) and I like that he went after guys like Deion, TO and others...like him when more aggressive. So I don't blame 20 years on him. But I do think there has been something fundamentally flawed the last 20 or so regarding structure and how we conduct business at times. And everyone buys in within the org and they are partly at fault too. It was mentioned above that the Cowboys are a family affair.... so there is this close incestuous way of doing things and this can lead to a wall where it seems that no one is accountable. Garret was there for 13-3 and should get some credit but he also has around a .500 career record and even had the owner say he made a lot of mistakes and was a coach in training. This also goes hand in hand with Jerry saying that he made a mistake with Chan and didn't want to do it again AND JGs Dad is a friend and ex-coworker of the team. I add all 3 up and to me it screams conflict of interest and a confluence of bad deals clouding thinking at times. ("Ill keep him so I don't make a mistake again, and he is one of our own so I can ignore when he isn't up to par.") This BFF thing is similar to me. It allows, at least to me, the look of some players having the coaches ear/back. My main issue with the credit/blame lies in the fact that the league is so full of parity that teams fortunes change on a dime. Building over 5 years is not something we hear about anymore. Getting rid of a coach or switching things up isn't going to set us back 3-4 years because new coaches/players adjust to what they have and many win. Look at Jets last year. So to me the last 6 years has been a little strange because I don't see accountability but I do see excuses to keep status quo no matter what happens...coaches, owner/GM and players all with blame. So many of these "relationships" tie into this. Honestly, I think we made more progress at times with gunslinger Jerry than "build" Jerry because honestly progress is a myth but for maybe 3 teams...Pack, Pats, Steelers

Sorry for the babble. Just trying to write through some objective thoughts...at least to me.

 

[Doomsday101]

I understand this completely. Really do and I don't think it's all on one person. I'm not a person who has ever been anti-Jerry, despite making fun of his ramblings, etc.. In fact I cheered the guy getting rid of Landry for Jimmy(blasphemous!) and I like that he went after guys like Deion, TO and others...like him when more aggressive. So I don't blame 20 years on him. But I do think there has been something fundamentally flawed the last 20 or so regarding structure and how we conduct business at times. And everyone buys in within the org and they are partly at fault too. It was mentioned above that the Cowboys are a family affair.... so there is this close incestuous way of doing things and this can lead to a wall where it seems that no one is accountable. Garret was there for 13-3 and should get some credit but he also has around a .500 career record and even had the owner say he made a lot of mistakes and was a coach in training. This also goes hand in hand with Jerry saying that he made a mistake with Chan and didn't want to do it again AND JGs Dad is a friend and ex-coworker of the team. I add all 3 up and to me it screams conflict of interest and a confluence of bad deals clouding thinking at times. ("Ill keep him so I don't make a mistake again, and he is one of our own so I can ignore when he isn't up to par.") This BFF thing is similar to me. It allows, at least to me, the look of some players having the coaches ear/back. My main issue with the credit/blame lies in the fact that the league is so full of parity that teams fortunes change on a dime. Building over 5 years is not something we hear about anymore. Getting rid of a coach or switching things up isn't going to set us back 3-4 years because new coaches/players adjust to what they have and many win. Look at Jets last year. So to me the last 6 years has been a little strange because I don't see accountability but I do see excuses to keep status quo no matter what happens...coaches, owner/GM and players all with blame. So many of these "relationships" tie into this. Honestly, I think we made more progress at times with gunslinger Jerry than "build" Jerry because honestly progress is a myth but for maybe 3 teams...Pack, Pats, Steelers

Sorry for the babble. Just trying to write through some objective thoughts...at least to me.

For me I place blame all the way around from Jerry, coaches and players. As for close relationships I have no issue with that and I think when it comes to business side the Cowboys will do what is in their interest. I have no doubt the Cowboys would have liked to kept Murray and Ware but it came down to simple business. Jerry over the years has been accused of holding on to players too long because of his loyalty. As for cutting ties with Garrett, I will just say this the 12-4 season and winning a playoff game I think saved his job. Last season was poor all the way around and sure losing Romo was a big part but I will not put the entire season being lost on Romo and Dez situation but it clearly contributed to it as well as having 2 players suspended to start the season.

Contract or no contract I do think how this season goes will determine a lot about Garrett job as HC. At 73 years old I think Jerry wants to see that SB before his time is done more so than any loyalty he may have to Garrett.

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

As far as Garrett's job security goes, I've never felt that's seriously been in question, anyway. The team and the players like him much much more than the fans do.

Classic case of them all being too close to be able to see the big picture. Fans have the benefit of no real personal attachment to Red and are able to more objectively see all the flaws and the need for change.

 

[Wolfpack]

Jason is a political guy. He is just making sure he has the support of Two guys who can call Jerry anytime anywhere and get his total attention.

It's a flawed system for sure.

 

[Miller]

Classic case of them all being too close to be able to see the big picture. Fans have the benefit of no real personal attachment to Red and are able to more objectively see all the flaws and the need for change.

Agree with this. Anyone who played a sport and didn't have a horrible screamer or a lazy coach, had respect for the coach. On the Boys, with the tight relationships and JGs history, of course they are going to respect the coach and say he is great. They run drills, practices etc and think "how professional and organized.. we are winning a SB" every year. Seeing it from the outside and the same mistakes made year after year you get a better sense. Even the 13-3 year we were seeing some horribly managed game time situations...see Lions playoff game. I've said this before...just listen to JG talk. I'm sure it comes across as professional, smart, organized, etc when you hear it day after day. And he is a good guy in general. I just think it rarely translated on the field game day and people within have a hard time seeing that. To them its "so close."

Jason is a political guy. He is just making sure he has the support of Two guys who can call Jerry anytime anywhere and get his total attention.

It's a flawed system for sure.

The bolded is the part of JG that I believe is a little darker. Good guy, professional, etc but I do believe since the Wade days he does things behind the scenes to keep himself on top. It's the part I find really shady about him. Somehow those screw ups Jerry spoke of disappear and all is well. That's where I think the Owner/GM/Player/Coach relations all come in.

I agree with Doomsday though that at some point if you don't have a winning season, the relationships will sour because everyone will be looking to CYA.

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

Agree with this. Anyone who played a sport and didn't have a horrible screamer or a lazy coach, had respect for the coach. On the Boys, with the tight relationships and JGs history, of course they are going to respect the coach and say he is great. They run drills, practices etc and think "how professional and organized.. we are winning a SB" every year. Seeing it from the outside and the same mistakes made year after year you get a better sense. Even the 13-3 year we were seeing some horribly managed game time situations...see Lions playoff game. I've said this before...just listen to JG talk. I'm sure it comes across as professional, smart, organized, etc when you hear it day after day. And he is a good guy in general. I just think it rarely translated on the field game day and people within have a hard time seeing that. To them its "so close."



The bolded is the part of JG that I believe is a little darker. Good guy, professional, etc but I do believe since the Wade days he does things behind the scenes to keep himself on top. It's the part I find really shady about him. Somehow those screw ups Jerry spoke of disappear and all is well. That's where I think the Owner/GM/Player/Coach relations all come in.

I agree with Doomsday though that at some point if you don't have a winning season, the relationships will sour because everyone will be looking to CYA.

Great Great Post!

Pretty much agree with everything you said.

I would add that the Red Kool Aid Drunks are like the players in many ways. They want it to work out so badly with Red that they just excuse all the mistakes, gaffes, and results overall as just bad luck, injuries, or misfortune, and believe that the long run of success is right around the corner, because, Red is saying and doing all the right stuff so it JUST HAS TO WORK at some point. Meanwhile the rest of the world looks at the results on the field, and even more importantly HOW we get those results and have realized that all the "speeches" and "slogans" and RKG stuff is only worth something if it produces results.

Even Jerry has bought in. I think with Jerry he has spoken about letting Chan Gailey go too soon and not letting coaches get enuff time to build so he likes all the stuff Jason says and does and "hopes" it will turn into something. Once again, the rest of the world has already figured it out but Jerry is sticking with the plan and doubling down.

BTW, I dont think Jerry was too hasty in getting rid of Chan Gailey at all. And I really dont know how Jerry could watch the debacle with the pathetic game plans and ZERO adjustment or improvement in any way with the backup QB situation last season to really think Red has any ability to scheme or game plan at the NFL level. That was as pathetic as Ive seen in 40 yrs of watching NFL football.

 

[visionary]

So it has crossed my mind before and I actually talked to a friend about this last year but until I heard it being discussed on the radio this morning it didn't really hit. I'm not ripping each person because I'm a Romo fan and a Witten fan...not a JG one...but that isn't the point. Is it normal for players and a HC to pal around with each other? Is this happening anywhere else? So the three of them are at Springsteen. There have been many other occasions where they have been at Mavs games or playoff games from sports, etc. I can't think of any other coach/player combo in any sport where they just hung out and didn't have a senior/junior relationship.

I guess it comes down to Is this a conflict of interest for JG and Jerry. Jerry says the offense is Romo friendly and obviously they hang out so does JG get a pass because of this bond and being semi, off field BFFs?

I'm honestly racking my brain and wondering if this is going on with any other team in any professional sport. I'm fine that they enjoy each others company. Not sure on how it affects interest of the team.

Romo is the ONLY reason Garrett is not the laughing stock of the NFL

 

[TheDude]

The bolded is the part of JG that I believe is a little darker. Good guy, professional, etc but I do believe since the Wade days he does things behind the scenes to keep himself on top. It's the part I find really shady about him. Somehow those screw ups Jerry spoke of disappear and all is well. That's where I think the Owner/GM/Player/Coach relations all come in.

I agree with Doomsday though that at some point if you don't have a winning season, the relationships will sour because everyone will be looking to CYA.

One thing that I have noticed is the tone, leaks and some character assassinations of some players. The TO meeting was leaked, the Dez leaks last year and the Hardy leaks this year. Its possible it just happened organically, but this didnt happen with Parcells and doesnt seem to happen with other teams.

Im not assigning blame, but I dont see anything like this anywhere else. And maybe Im naive and this is the normal cowboys trajectory, but most reporters Ive seen arent smart enough to just make up stuff like this.

It is just odd

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

One thing that I have noticed is the tone, leaks and some character assassinations of some players. The TO meeting was leaked, the Dez leaks last year and the Hardy leaks this year. Its possible it just happened organically, but this didnt happen with Parcells and doesnt seem to happen with other teams.

Im not assigning blame, but I dont see anything like this anywhere else. And maybe Im naive and this is the normal cowboys trajectory, but most reporters Ive seen arent smart enough to just make up stuff like this.

It is just odd

Its called pointing the finger everywhere except at the guy in the mirror.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Jason is a political guy. He is just making sure he has the support of Two guys who can call Jerry anytime anywhere and get his total attention.

It's a flawed system for sure.

I'm not saying it's a flawed system or not, you may very well be right, but do you think that there is any team owner in the league that wouldn't listen to their franchise QB if he called him up to talk to him about something?

I'd bet pretty much every owner in the league who has a franchise QB that they respect, and has won games for them, listens to their QB when he speaks.