Gerald McCoy to Carolina

[Stash]

I'm reading a rumor that another team offered him double what he's getting at Carolina. Does anyone know/heard if it's true and what team?

Rapoport reported that Baltimore offered double the guaranteed money that Carolina did. It's in the tweet that I included earlier. But, that's not to say that their total offer was the same or better, and based on a one year deal, as of week one, it's all guaranteed to the veteran anyway so I don't think it's that big of a deal.

 

[OmerV]

I feel that it is. But you carry on by talking up some free agent journeyman and an unproven rookie considered by many to be a reach. It's what many fans do, as I mentioned before.



And we also get to be proven right while the team is proven wrong. It's happened again and again and again as well. But that's the part that many fans can't admit. That sometimes, fans get it right while the team gets it wrong. I can cite you plenty of examples if you need. I think this is another one of those times.

Talking up? Exaggerate much do you Megan?

I said they made efforts to address the Interior d-line and now have a crowd of people competing for playing time. And I said with that being the case and with the fact they have some high dollar contracts to extend, it’s not as unreasonable to pass on McCoy as you say.

But hey, why worry about actual content and context ...

Sometimes fans do get it right, but which fan? Is it you wanting McCoy this week, or somebody else wanting another player last week, or somebody else wanting a different player the week before. Considering somebody on this site advocates signing almost every veteran free agent it would be impossible to be wrong every time.

 

[Stash]

Talking up? Exaggerate much do you Megan?

I said they made efforts to address the Interior d-line and now have a crowd of people competing for playing time. And I said with that being the case and with the fact they have some high dollar contracts to extend, it’s not as unreasonable to pass on McCoy as you say.

But hey, why worry about actual content and context ...

Sometimes fans do get it right, but which fan? Is it you wanting McCoy this week, or somebody else wanting another player last week, or somebody else wanting a different player the week before. Considering somebody on this site advocates signing almost every veteran free agent it would be impossible to be wrong every time.

I can't concern myself with every fan, every player or every team, I'll leave that up to you.

In the meantime, I'll focus on this fan, this player, and this team.

 

[OmerV]

I can't concern myself with every fan, every player or every team, I'll leave that up to you.

In the meantime, I'll focus on this fan, this player, and this team.

You actually tried to concern yourself with that before when you talked about fans sometimes getting it right and the team getting it wrong. But when asked which fans the team should side with you suddenly aren't so interested in what "fans" think.

In any case, I certainly understand that the thoughts of other fans on other players are separate from you thoughts on the players you like, but that still doesn't change the fact that the reality is just because a fan thinks a player is the right fit (whether you, me or any other fan) doesn't make it so.

And a big part of that reality is the team has a much bigger picture to look at than fans do. The team is analyzing overall team needs, both present and future, and cap space, both present and future, and contract situations, both present and future. Fans generally are just thinking "we have the money today so let's sign this guy".

 

[Stash]

You actually tried to concern yourself with that before when you talked about fans sometimes getting it right and the team getting it wrong. But when asked which fans the team should side with you suddenly aren't so interested in what "fans" think.

If you want to discuss my track record in particular? Ask away. Despite what you might like to think, I get things right plenty of times. But given your track record here, I'm sure you don't want to relive where I was right and the team was wrong. You clearly can't handle it.

In any case, I certainly understand that the thoughts of other fans on other players are separate from you thoughts on the players you like, but that still doesn't change the fact that the reality is just because a fan thinks a player is the right fit (whether you, me or any other fan) doesn't make it so.

And conversely, just because the team decides to do something - or in this case not to - that doesn't "make it so" either.

And a big part of that reality is the team has a much bigger picture to look at than fans do. The team is analyzing overall team needs, both present and future, and cap space, both present and future, and contract situations, both present and future. Fans generally are just thinking "we have the money today so let's sign this guy".

I've already debunked that as a potential excuse. Nobody can tell me "they can't afford it" when they're currently carrying Crawford at a total cap hit of $10 million and Hurns at $6.5 million. That's as dead money as dead money can be and a terrible use of cap resources. You cut those two overpaid role players and you have more than enough to pay a difference-maker like McCoy on the same one year deal he signed, with ample money left over. And no effect on those present and future contracts.

The excuse simply doesn't hold water.

 

[OmerV]

If you want to discuss my track record in particular? Ask away. Despite what you might like to think, I get things right plenty of times. But given your track record here, I'm sure you don't want to relive where I was right and the team was wrong. You clearly can't handle it.



And conversely, just because the team decides to do something - or in this case not to - that doesn't "make it so" either.



I've already debunked that as a potential excuse. Nobody can tell me "they can't afford it" when they're currently carrying Crawford at a total cap hit of $10 million and Hurns at $6.5 million. That's as dead money as dead money can be and a terrible use of cap resources. You cut those two overpaid role players and you have more than enough to pay a difference-maker like McCoy on the same one year deal he signed, with ample money left over. And no effect on those present and future contracts.

The excuse simply doesn't hold water.

I wasn't discussing your track record in particular, I was discussing what you said in this conversation.

And while it's true that the team doesn't always get it right, no team does. But they are making decisions based on a lot more information and a lot more awareness of all the facts and scenarios than fans are. Bottom line is there are things we don't consider that the team has to.

As for Crawford and Hurns, I don't think they can cut Crawford and eliminate his entire cap hit. Maybe they can with Hurns, but I'm not sure he is on solid ground to make the team anyway. In any case, I don't disagree with you that McCoy is a better player than Crawford, but for whatever reason the Cowboys like Crawford - maybe for his ability to play both DT and DE.

 

[Stash]

I wasn't discussing your track record in particular, I was discussing what you said in this conversation.

And while it's true that the team doesn't always get it right, no team does. But they are making decisions based on a lot more information and a lot more awareness of all the facts and scenarios than fans are. Bottom line is there are things we don't consider that the team has to.

And they still make mistakes.

As for Crawford and Hurns, I don't think they can cut Crawford and eliminate his entire cap hit.

$6 million of it this year and $9 million next year for a total savings of $15 million.

Maybe they can with Hurns, but I'm not sure he is on solid ground to make the team anyway. In any case, I don't disagree with you that McCoy is a better player than Crawford, but for whatever reason the Cowboys like Crawford - maybe for his ability to play both DT and DE.

And that's essentially where I'm taking issue with their decision-making.

Between Hurns and Crawford, this team can free up over $21 million over the next two years. And they could have signed McCoy this year for just half of that. And that's my issue.

 

[OmerV]

And they still make mistakes.



$6 million of it this year and $9 million next year for a total savings of $15 million.



And that's essentially where I'm taking issue with their decision-making.

Between Hurns and Crawford, this team can free up over $21 million over the next two years. And they could have signed McCoy this year for just half of that. And that's my issue.

What part of "the team doesn't always get it right" do you think you are disputing by saying "and they still make mistakes? You are arguing a point that issn't even in dispute.

But ask yourself these things ...

1. What team doesn't make mistakes?

2. Wouldn't someone that understands every dollar in place now, every dollar needed in the future, every contract in place now, every contract that needs to be extended now and in the future, and every contract they may let expire and try to replace in the draft or through free agency be in a better position to make a decision than a guy sitting at his computer screen who doesn't have to be responsible for any of that?

As for Crawford, you and the Cowboys will just have to agree to disagree. I can see arguments on both sides.

And there may be arguments neither of us is considering. Maybe the Cowboys weren't interested in bringing him in for a 1 year deal, but couldn't afford his price for a multi year deal. Maybe they feel the position is covered - time will tell if that is true or not. Maybe they feel McCoy is regressing, or would impede the progress of our new draft pick. Maybe McCoy just preferred Carolina. Or maybe the Cowboys are dead *** wrong. But again, if they are, they aren't the only team..

 

[Stash]

What part of "the team doesn't always get it right" do you think you are disputing by saying "and they still make mistakes? You are arguing a point that issn't even in dispute.

But ask yourself these things ...

1. What team doesn't make mistakes?

2. Wouldn't someone that understands every dollar in place now, every dollar needed in the future, every contract in place now, every contract that needs to be extended now and in the future, and every contract they may let expire and try to replace in the draft or through free agency be in a better position to make a decision than a guy sitting at his computer screen who doesn't have to be responsible for any of that?

No, that's the part that you want to assume so that you can feel better.

You're already justifying everything they do, and every mistake they make with your "every team makes mistakes" line. You give them a "get out of jail free card". You're exactly that fan that I thought you were. And exactly why you can't handle it when anyone criticizes them.

As for Crawford, you and the Cowboys will just have to agree to disagree. I can see arguments on both sides.

I've resigned myself to the fact that they'll likely keep him again this year, while I will argue against it.

And there may be arguments neither of us is considering. Maybe the Cowboys weren't interested in bringing him in for a 1 year deal, but couldn't afford his price for a multi year deal. Maybe they feel the position is covered - time will tell if that is true or not. Maybe they feel McCoy is regressing, or would impede the progress of our new draft pick. Maybe McCoy just preferred Carolina. Or maybe the Cowboys are dead *** wrong. But again, if they are, they aren't the only team..

They're the "only team" I care about.

 

[OmerV]

No, that's the part that you want to assume so that you can feel better.

You're already justifying everything they do, and every mistake they make with your "every team makes mistakes" line. You give them a "get out of jail free card". You're exactly that fan that I thought you were. And exactly why you can't handle it when anyone criticizes them.



I've resigned myself to the fact that they'll likely keep him again this year, while I will argue against it.



They're the "only team" I care about.

What's the part I want to assume? I made several points - be specific.

As for the fact every team makes mistakes, are you really arguing against that? Perfection is not an option, and to suggest a team should be criticized for not reaching perfection is so nonsensical that it's laughable.

No matter how much you want to think otherwise, the fact an NFL does not reach perfection does not remotely mean a fan sitting at home knows all the circumstances and all the information and all the details that go into every decision. Again, a fan has the luxury of simply saying "I like that guy, so we should sign him". It just isn't that simplistic in the real world.

 

[Stash]

What's the part I want to assume? I made several points - be specific.

That the people on the inside are in "better position" to make decisions. They've made plenty of bad ones and continue to do so.

As for the fact every team makes mistakes, are you really arguing against that? Perfection is not an option, and to suggest a team should be criticized for not reaching perfection is so nonsensical that it's laughable.

Good thing that nobody is doing that.

No matter how much you want to think otherwise, the fact an NFL does not reach perfection does not remotely mean a fan sitting at home knows all the circumstances and all the information and all the details that go into every decision. Again, a fan has the luxury of simply saying "I like that guy, so we should sign him". It just isn't that simplistic in the real world.

Fake complaint. Strawman.

 

[OmerV]

That the people on the inside are in "better position" to make decisions. They've made plenty of bad ones and continue to do so.



Good thing that nobody is doing that.



Fake complaint. Strawman.

Are you really suggesting there is any possible way you would or could know better than the team all the circumstances with the team, and salary cap both now and what is anticipated in the future, and the contracts both now and what is anticipated in the future, and what the management and coaches are thinking about who they will keep and let go over time and what the team's present and future needs will be.

That's so outlandishly ridiculous it's a conversation stopper. That's like saying because you buy gasoline and read stock quotes and press releases and quarterly and annual SEC reports that you know more about the inner workings and plans and finances at Exxon than the Exxon CEO and managers.

There are people that work down the hall from other people that don't know everything about what their co-worker is working on and planning and the finances involved and all the present and future implications, yet you are suggesting you know more about those things with the Cowboys than the Cowboys do.

 

[Stash]

Are you really suggesting there is any possible way you would or could know better than the team all the circumstances with the team, and salary cap both now and what is anticipated in the future, and the contracts both now and what is anticipated in the future, and what the management and coaches are thinking about who they will keep and let go over time and what the team's present and future needs will be.

That's so outlandishly ridiculous it's a conversation stopper. That's like saying because you buy gasoline and read stock quotes and press releases you know more about the inner workings and plans and finances at Exxon than the Exxon CEO and managers.

There are people that work down the hall from other people that don't know everything about what their co-worker is working on and planning and the finances involved and all the present and future implications, yet you are suggesting you know more about those things with the Cowboys than the Cowboys do.

And again, one of the chief excuse-makers like yourself goes back to the well, where suddenly this is about "salary cap now Anderson in the future", when it's repeatedly been shown to you that by simply cutting known bad contracts, this deal is more than paid for. But again, it destroys your excuse so you can't bear to read it. Just like you couldn't bear to read criticism of the Cowboys decision-making in the first place. And why you feel the need to revisit this thread again and again and again.

And yes, coming down on the Cowboys for not reaching perfection is exactly what you are doing. You're entire argument is essentially "they get it wrong sometimes", as if there is any expectation that they, or any team, can avoid that. And the ridiculous thing is you seem to think that the fact "they get it wrong sometimes" somehow means you would get it right and can do it better. It's a completely illogical and irrational argument.

Certainly to someone like you - who clearly can't handle anything critical of 'his Cowboys'. You've proven my original point again, and again, and again.

Thanks.

 

[OmerV]

And again, one of the chief excuse-makers like yourself goes back to the well, where suddenly this is about "salary cap now Anderson in the future", when it's repeatedly been shown to you that by simply cutting known bad contracts, this deal is more than paid for. But again, it destroys your excuse so you can't bear to read it. Just like you couldn't bear to read criticism of the Cowboys decision-making in the first place. And why you feel the need to revisit this thread again and again and again.



Certainly to someone like you - who clearly can't handle anything critical of 'his Cowboys'. You've proven my original point again, and again, and again.

Thanks.

Yep, a guy who for 2 years has advocated for changing the head coach and has said for 20+ years Jerry is a bad GM cannot stand criticism of the team …

That's just a nonsensical mantra some like to use. Same as the "Garrett Lover" mantra. It's like a child on a playground calling someone a doo doo head. Just empty nonsense when you have nothing else to say.

What I am is someone that expects reality in the criticism, not ridiculous claims that a person know everything about every plan and every dollar and every contract and every circumstance that goes into every decision better than the Cowboys do themselves. It's frankly unbelievable that you don't see how ridiculous that is.

Yeah, they get it wrong sometimes, and maybe more than they should, but that does not mean you somehow would be better at it, and it certainly doesn't mean you have all the information and know all the plans the way they do when making a decision.

 

[Stash]

Yep, a guy who for 2 years has advocated for changing the head coach and has said for 20+ years Jerry is a bad GM cannot stand criticism of the team …

And this proves what? Your continued presence here proves my point. Again and again and again.

That's just a nonsensical mantra some like to use. Same as the "Garrett Lover" mantra. It's like a child on a playground calling someone a doo doo head. Just empty nonsense when you have nothing else to say.

Keep on proving my point by coming back to this thread.

What I am is someone that expects reality in the criticism, not someone that ridiculously claims they know everything about every plan and every dollar and every contract and every circumstance that goes into every decision better than the Cowboys do themselves. It's frankly unbelievable that you don't see how ridiculous that is.

When all logic fails, reach for that Strawman again.

Yeah, they get it wrong sometimes, and maybe more than they should, but that does not mean you somehow would be better at it, and it certainly doesn't mean you have all the information and know all the plans the way they do when making a decision.

Good thing I NEVER claimed that. But as is your style, you go for a Strawman yet again.

At least you're consistent.

 

[OmerV]

And this proves what? Your continued presence here proves my point. Again and again and again.



Keep on proving my point by coming back to this thread.



When all logic fails, reach for that Strawman again.



Good thing I NEVER claimed that. But as is your style, you go for a Strawman yet again.

At least you're consistent.

Your logic is as poor as ever. Dead conversation. Like I said, you suggestion that you know ever circumstance and every thought and every salary cap implication and every plan both in the present and for the future such that you are better informed than the team about all these things is a conversation stopper. It's a mind boggling claim. You can say "strawman" all you want and claim you never indicated things that you did, but that's a conversation stopper too.

Bye now.

 

[Stash]

Your logic is as poor as ever. Dead conversation. Like I said, you suggestion that you know ever circumstance and every thought and every salary cap implication and every plan both in the present and for the future such that you are better informed than the team about all these things is a conversation stopper. It's a mind boggling claim. You can say "strawman" all you want and claim you never indicated things that you did, but that's a conversation stopper too.

Bye now.

Good. Please leave.

All you're good for are strawman arguments, based on things nobody ever said or lies about "suggestions" nobody ever made. An embarrassment, and worthless.

 

[Super_Kazuya]

Your logic is as poor as ever. Dead conversation. Like I said, you suggestion that you know ever circumstance and every thought and every salary cap implication and every plan both in the present and for the future such that you are better informed than the team about all these things is a conversation stopper. It's a mind boggling claim. You can say "strawman" all you want and claim you never indicated things that you did, but that's a conversation stopper too.

Bye now.

Down goes Trasheroo! Another powerful blow to the midsection has him heading to the canvas...

Just wanna say, you’re killing it in this thread. Keep up the good work. I enjoy your posts.

I have nothing of value to add to the discussion... just waving my pom poms.