Gordon vs Coleman

[Brooksey]

I did say that I didn't watch the game, right? but, the stats are SO opposite of each other...you would think that OSU would have adjusted if he was still ripping off 6 ypc (without a 95 yard run)

Stats can be misleading. I think Gordon looked better against Ohio St. without the big Coleman run. It looked like he was much tougher finishing his runs.

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/melvin-gordon-vs-ohio-state-2014/
http://draftbreakdown.com/video/tevin-coleman-vs-ohio-state-2014/

 

[theogt]

Stats can be misleading. I think Gordon looked better against Ohio St. without the big Coleman run. It looked like he was much tougher finishing his runs.

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/melvin-gordon-vs-ohio-state-2014/
http://draftbreakdown.com/video/tevin-coleman-vs-ohio-state-2014/

Look at Coleman's runs between the tackles against Ohio State. Prior to the final 3 minutes of the game when Ohio State was up by 20+ points and in prevent defense, Coleman had 16 runs between the tackles. In those 16 carries, he had 17 yards.

He had a 10+ yard run and a 50+ yard run between the tackles with a minute or so left in the game and down by 20+ points -- at that point, both teams had basically given up on the game. And, of course, he had the 95 yard run bouncing it outside earlier in the game.

Like you say, stats can be misleading. Many have said it, myself including, but Coleman is the definition of a home run hitter, but can't run between the tackles.

 

[AsthmaField]

No biggie. Happens to the best of 'em.

I disagree... I think it does happen to the best of 'em.

 

[DFWJC]

No way does Coleman get to 60. With how many teams really need a RB but are unlikely to get one in the first (teams like the Jets, Vikings (if Peterson is indeed traded/released... even if he isn't he isn't long for MN, possibly Chargers, Jags, Rams, etc.) I highly doubt he gets to 45. That's largely why I think trying to wait until 60... or even worse 87 is just crazy and shouldn't even be thought of if the value is there at the previous spot.

Yeah, that's why I said "somehow"...as it seems like he most likely won't be there.
I don't know what our draft board will look like anyway. The very easily could have guys like Ajayi and Yeldon ahead of him for all we know....as could other teams.

Fine with me and not remotely crazy to not panic and take back earlier than we have hi valued, just because were worried what other teams will do
Jmo

I would not spend our 1st on Coleman though.

 

[endersdragon]

Yeah, that's why I said "somehow"...as it seems like he most likely won't be there.
I don't know what our draft board will look like anyway. The very easily could have guys like Ajayi and Yeldon ahead of him for all we know....as could other teams.

Fine with me and not remotely crazy to not panic and take back earlier than we have hi valued, just because were worried what other teams will do
Jmo

I would not spend our 1st on Coleman though.

I agree with not spending a first on him... but if we were to say... trade down 10 picks (or even 6 or 7 picks) I would have very little problem taking him with our first pick.

 

[DFWJC]

I agree with not spending a first on him... but if we were to say... trade down 10 picks (or even 6 or 7 picks) I would have very little problem taking him with our first pick.

If you rate him in that range then that's the way to go. I agree. You could pick up an extra 4th rounder (maybe a 6th or 7th too) or just swap our late 3rd for their early 3rd and be in business.

 

[burmafrd]

It amuses me that "Coleman homers" try to use stats to distract from what your eyes should tell you. I have seen countless threads on here comparing his production (stats) to Gordon's. And Indiana did not throw because they were behind. They were in shotgun a lot of the time and that is where a lot of Coleman's better runs came from.

I do not get why you are so defensive and trying to turn it into a polarizing argument. They are two different players, one that will go far before the other on pretty much anyone credible's scale. If it were anywhere as close as you think it is, Coleman would be getting a lot more credit than he is. Frankly, he is not.

I am far from a "Gordon homer". I even have a little fright due to the Wisconsin back thing, as illogical as it seems. But if I am picking between the two, Coleman loses. Every time.

there is a difference between being amused by your lack of football judgement and being defensive

 

[burmafrd]

Gordon had the second highest rushing total in college history. You can bias the stats and wave your hands but it doesn't detract from that.

fuzzy being FUZZY again

 

[Bullflop]

I disagree... I think it does happen to the best of 'em.

Then, actually you agree because that's exactly what my point was as well. In other words, my message simply meant "It's no big deal -- it happens to the best of 'em." (i.e.) we all make mistakes.

 

[ccb04]

As I mentioned, I like both players. And of course the Cowboys have interest in both. The Michigan game better shows that Coleman can function inside. Michigan had the #15 rush defense in the country & Ohio St. had the 34th ranked rush defense. Coleman had 27 carries in the game for 108 yards...with his longest run being 17 yards. And despite Michigan often playing on Indiana's side of the LOS, Coleman lost only 4 yards.

Coleman vs. Michigan: http://draftbreakdown.com/video/tevin-coleman-vs-michigan-2014/

Coleman lost a fumble vs. Michigan...and Gordon lost one that was returned for a TD vs. Ohio St. Both games got out of hand in terms of the score.

Both had a tougher time running vs. the eventual national champs. Wisconsin had the better OL and at times utilized a FB. Coleman broke his long TD run to the outside earlier in the game...which was the longest TD run ever given up by an Ohio St. defense...but it also came against a defense that boasts multiple players that will go on to the NFL, with the speed/athleticism to pursue. Same goes for Gordon in terms of his better runs vs. OSU.

It can obviously be tough to project how players might perform on the next level. Interestingly, here's the noted weaknesses from Demarco Murray's NFL.com draft profile.....

Weaknesses
Does not have the vision to consistently find open lanes and looks to bounce the ball outside too soon. Runs a bit high and lacks the power to get the difficult yards between the tackles. Lacks the agility to always make the first man miss in the hole. Has struggled to stay on the field.

 

[AsthmaField]

Then, actually you agree because that's exactly what my point was as well. In other words, my message simply meant "It's no big deal -- it happens to the best of 'em." (i.e.) we all make mistakes.

It was a bad joke, lol.

 

[UncleBlazer]

It was a bad joke, lol.

It was actually a good joke. I was picking up what you were putting down.

 

[Bullflop]

It was actually a good joke. I was picking up what you were putting down.

Well, good for you -- I'm still trying to figure it out, lol.

 

[BlindFaith]

I stole this from another Cowboy forum. Credit to Bayou-Cowboy at Cowboys-Forum.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought it would be interesting since both were from the Big 10 to compare Gordon and Coleman vs like opponents.

Here's the breakdown:

Bowling Green:
Gordon: 13/253 19.5 ypc 5 TDs
Coleman: 24/190 7.9 ypc 3 TDs

Maryland:
Gordon: 22/122 5.5 ypc 3 TDs
Coleman: 22/122 5.5 ypc 1 TD
Langford: 25/138 5.5 ypc 2 TDs

Rutgers:
Gordon: 19/128 6.7 ypc 2 TDs
Coleman: 32/307 9.6 ypc 1 TD
Langford: 16/126 7.9 ypc 2 TDs

Purdue:
Gordon: 25/205 8.2 ypc 1 TD
Coleman: 29/130 4.5 ypc 0 TD
Langford: 13/104 8.0 ypc 0 TD

Iowa:
Gordon: 31/200 6.5 ypc 2 TDs
Coleman: 15/219 14.6 ypc 3 TDs

Ohio St:
Gordon: 26/76 2.9 ypc 0 TD
Coleman: 27/228 8.4 ypc 3 TDs
Langford: 18/137 7.6 ypc 3 TDs

Totals:
Gordon: 136/984 7.2 ypc 13 TDs
Coleman: 149/1196 8.0 ypc 11TDs


Obviously different players, different teams, but based "solely" on like opponents Coleman matches up very favorably and in some instances exceeded Gordon.

Bowling Green:
Gordon: 13/253 19.5 ypc 5 TDs
Coleman: 24/190 7.9 ypc 3 TDs

Maryland:
Gordon: 22/122 5.5 ypc 3 TDs
Coleman: 22/122 5.5 ypc 1 TD
Langford: 25/138 5.5 ypc 2 TDs

Rutgers:
Gordon: 19/128 6.7 ypc 2 TDs
Coleman: 32/307 9.6 ypc 1 TD
Langford: 16/126 7.9 ypc 2 TDs

Purdue:
Gordon: 25/205 8.2 ypc 1 TD
Coleman: 29/130 4.5 ypc 0 TD
Langford: 13/104 8.0 ypc 0 TD

Iowa:
Gordon: 31/200 6.5 ypc 2 TDs
Coleman: 15/219 14.6 ypc 3 TDs

Ohio St:
Gordon: 26/76 2.9 ypc 0 TD
Coleman: 27/228 8.4 ypc 3 TDs
Langford: 18/137 7.6 ypc 3 TDs

 

[BlindFaith]

Gordon had the second highest rushing total in college history. You can bias the stats and wave your hands but it doesn't detract from that.

Ron Dayne?

 

[NorthwestDallas40]

Here's the thing about Coleman, he ran almost exclusively out of the shotgun and either ran a sweep or read option most of the time. When you watch his game highlights (not just highlight compilations, but full games), he shows very little elusiveness in the hole. Because of the read option or sweep, and Coleman's speed, he had alot of big plays where he burst straight ahead through a wide lane. Except for those plays, I see a RB who runs tall and slows down in order to make defenders miss in the hole. I just dont know how Coleman's game translates to the NFL.

This just posted today...

According to STATS, Indiana RB Tevin Coleman broke a tackle or made a defender miss on just 12.2 percent of his college carries.
Todd Gurley, Jay Ajayi, and Melvin Gordon were all over 21 percent. Duke Johnson broke a tackle or made a defender miss on 19 percent of his runs. Coleman's long speed and big-play ability are not in doubt, and his ability to pass protect will greatly enhance his chances of playing early. But he isn't an elusive runner, and it's borne out in both the stats and on game tape.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000488295/article/2015-nfl-drafts-biggest-boomorbust-prospects

 

[ccb04]

I like Coleman quite a bit, but certainly wouldn't say he's among the more elusive backs in the draft...because he's not. Demarco Murray wasn't either. I see it similar to this: "Coleman has a DeMarco Murrayish skill-set, in Brugler's words. Dallas' line creates a lot of yards on their own, but it is difficult to find a back who can consistently create on their own."

A key I took from his comments, is that it's difficult to find a back that can consistently create on their own. I'd go so far as to say it's somewhat rare in the NFL. Murray certainly isn't gonna Barry Sanders his way down the field. Neither is Coleman...or very many others, particularly on a consistent basis in the NFL.

It was mentioned earlier in the thread that stats don't always tell the whole story. The 12.2% stat is interesting in that we also have this stat: "Coleman finished No. 4 in the country behind only Todd Gurley, Nick Chubb and Josh Robinson with a 3.2 yards-after-contact average." I'd say the 12.2% stat has more to do with Coleman being less elusive than some of the others...and perhaps also having the ability to erase pursuit angles with his speed, especially at the college level. If he entered the 2nd level, he was often gone.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Ron Dayne?

Barry Sanders?

 

[Hardline]

Barry Sanders?

Ricky Williams.

 

[BlindFaith]

Barry Sanders?

Barry Sanders didn't play for Wisconsin.