Has Linehan done a good job here?

[RS12]

What are you seeing in O'Brien coaching Brandon Weeden up that nobody else is able to point to? The numbers on the defensive support are pretty clear. The game highlights show you the exact same player we had here. I know it's important to believe he was coached up in the month or so he spent on their roster as the QB3, but it'd be great if somebody could illustrate how he did it and why it somehow looked like the exact same Brandon Weeden on the field.

I thought I already explained this. O Brien didnt ram a play book or style of play down Weeden's throat. He made sure that the game that was called fit Weeden's strengths after figuring out what the guy did competently. Nobody here figured that out in two years.

 

[jobberone]

Take a look at what O Brien did with Hackenberg at Penn St and Weeden last year. Take a look at what David Lee did with Tyrod Taylor in Buffalo last year. Those would be some examples of coaching them up. Checking down constantly isnt my idea of coaching em up.

WHO does the checking down?

 

[RS12]

WHO does the checking down?

No, the question is who told him to check down.

 

[jobberone]

I thought I already explained this. O Brien didnt ram a play book or style of play down Weeden's throat. He made sure that the game that was called fit Weeden's strengths after figuring out what the guy did competently. Nobody here figured that out in two years.

Appears to me they did what they could to maximize what 'strengths' he had. His Cmp%, AY/A and Y/C, and TD% went up under Wilson and Linehan compared to CLE. His Y/C, Cmp% were better here than Hou and he passed for more YPG in DAL v HOU. Same player for the most part in CLE and HOU. He played in 2 G for HOU starting one and won one game.

 

[jobberone]

No, the question is who told him to check down.

You're ASSUMING the coaches did. That fits your agenda. No NFL coach is going to tell someone to play too conservatively IF they are down and needing to score.

 

[ilykdrama]

Since he's been drafted Dez has rarely been used how he should be and it's beyond frustrating. We haven't had a legitimate deep threat either, which is also on the coaching staff. I saw glimpses in 2014 that Dez was starting to get used correctly.

 

[RS12]

You're ASSUMING the coaches did. That fits your agenda. No NFL coach is going to tell someone to play too conservatively IF they are down and needing to score.

Stop with the agenda nonsense. Seems to be hot word around here all of a sudden. Weeden said it on the way out the door last year. Look it up.

 

[Idgit]

I thought I already explained this. O Brien didnt ram a play book or style of play down Weeden's throat. He made sure that the game that was called fit Weeden's strengths after figuring out what the guy did competently. Nobody here figured that out in two years.

You said that was your opinion, but then people explained that what really happened was the defense gave him 4 takeaways and a defensive score. Then we provided that link of Weeden doing exactly the same things he did in Dallas and where it didn't seem like anybody called anything whatsoever that fit his strengths.

So that's why I was wondering what exactly you saw that was different that I haven't been able to see. Because this Titans game keeps coming up as an example of what a real coach does with a backup QB, and I don't see a whole lot of anything special going on. 15/24 for 200 yards, a fumble, a rushing TD and two high tosses in a straight line on a rope to the corner of the end zone. Looks pretty much like a carbon copy of the game he played against the Saints to me except for the 0 INTs and the 0 FF and the 0 defensive scores our defense chipped in on that one.

 

[Idgit]

Since he's been drafted Dez has rarely been used how he should be and it's beyond frustrating. We haven't had a legitimate deep threat either, which is also on the coaching staff. I saw glimpses in 2014 that Dez was starting to get used correctly.

Dez is pretty remarkable, then, to be as productive as he's been in his career without even being used properly.

I don't understand how people can read the stats on the productivity of the offense overall, in context with the productivity of the offenses of other teams in the league, and just ignore it. Or just conclude that instead of top-5 for a given season, we ought to have been #1 overall or else we're just not using our players properly. And then at the same time give the defense a pass for underperforming the rest of the league significantly during large parts of that same stretch and think nothing of it. In fact, while some of it was happening, posters were fete-ing Rob Ryan and making excuses for his fat incompetence the whole way. It boggles me.

 

[percyhoward]

Weeden said he was told to constantly check down here.

I just wish he hadn't done so much of it on 3rd down.

3rd down passer rating, 2014-15
Weeden 111.6
Romo 108.1

3rd down conversions, 2014-15
Romo 48.0%
Weeden 27.5%

 

[BlueStar22]

He did in 2014. We were 14-2. Next question.

 

[Arkyvarminter]

He did in 2014. We were 14-2. Next question.

I don't remember that....

 

[Idgit]

I just wish he hadn't done so much of it on 3rd down.

3rd down passer rating, 2014-15
Weeden 111.6
Romo 108.1

3rd down conversions, 2014-15
Romo 48.0%
Weeden 27.5%

This was always a good stat. Maybe it have been different for Weeden, though, if he'd had Dez around to get some of that attention. I'm not sure Weeden looked for Beasley very often because Bease maybe wasn't tall enough to catch a 90 MPH fastball thrown over his head only when he made direct eye contact with the QB, but you never know. There was a lot of checking down to Dunbar going on with Dez and Tony both out, that's for sure. Until, of course, Dunbar went down, too.

 

[jobberone]

Stop with the agenda nonsense. Seems to be hot word around here all of a sudden. Weeden said it on the way out the door last year. Look it up.

When you are spouting opinion contrary to the facts in general and opining emotionally, then you appear to have an agenda rather than looking at the facts. Everyone can complain about betting on the wrong horse but the fact Weeden is a nobody for the entire league speaks volumes. You say he won a game and I say look at all the evidence; no one is beating the door down to get at the guy.

The difference in the elite and the others is between the ears and not in the arm or in the play calling of an OC. There are enough players out in route to complete a pass on 90% of snaps. Matriculating the ball down the field is primarily on the QB supported by a good offense and not on the coaches.

 

[CATCH17]

Nope.

An oline that imposes their will and a QB that can improvise doesn't mean you're a good play caller.

 

[Doomsay]

I think Linehan offense is fine and I disagree that it takes Romo,.

Whoops, Apocalypse! The most epic misunderstanding our offense, for the past decade, fails.

 

[percyhoward]

Maybe it would have been different for Weeden if he'd had Dez around.

On some quick-hitters, maybe. Over his career, Weeden's only completed 40% of his throws beyond 10 yards.

edit: of the 50 QB with the most attempts at 15+ yards since 2012, Weeden is tied for 49th (last) with Jake Locker at 33.3% completions.

 

[ilykdrama]

Dez is pretty remarkable, then, to be as productive as he's been in his career without even being used properly.

I don't understand how people can read the stats on the productivity of the offense overall, in context with the productivity of the offenses of other teams in the league, and just ignore it. Or just conclude that instead of top-5 for a given season, we ought to have been #1 overall or else we're just not using our players properly. And then at the same time give the defense a pass for underperforming the rest of the league significantly during large parts of that same stretch and think nothing of it. In fact, while some of it was happening, posters were fete-ing Rob Ryan and making excuses for his fat incompetence the whole way. It boggles me.

Just saying everything to him is contested. He's never given space and we hardly ever force things to him knowing he can win one on ones.

 

[casmith07]

I think our offense is just too vanilla. Its like Romo makes the whole thing go and even he is asked to do too much. What has Linehan done here, or anywhere, besides ride Murray's coat tail in 2014? His play calling is no better than Garrett's. Why is he here?

Fire him, fire all the coaches.

Just wanted to get that in to cover 80% of posts.

 

[CowboyRoy]

You like those 9-7, 9-7 guys, huh? I guess some of us just have a much higher standard for quality head coaching.

LOL...........I love it. A little ribbing. Nicely done. I will definitely play along:

Its actually refreshing for you to acknowledge that record actual does matter to some extent when analyzing coaches. But...............one would have to admit that 9-7's are better than 8-8's correct?

My premise, however, was actually based on the fact that just about any coach is better than Garrett. That is honestly how I feel.

But...............lets look deeper into this analysis. This vaunted 8-8 record of Garrett, which is underwhelming to say the least, was accomplished with Tony Romo at QB. Imagine what the coaching staff in Houston could have done if they had Tony Romo and instead of the likes of Weeden and other revolving QB backup retreads. They would be challenging for SB's on a regular basis. Granted they have a very good defense over there, but one has to give credit to the FO for recognizing the importance of establishing a great defense. Garrett has been with the franchise 8 years now and he still hasnt figured that one out. And how long did it take him to figure out the importance of the run game? 6 years? Houston has that one covered for quite some time. And lets look no further than Weeden. Who played much better and more care free and with confidence than he did under Garrett. Now certainly, as you have pointed out, having a good defense helped him win those games. But we cant blame Weeden for that. Would he have been able to rally the team without it? Maybe, maybe not. But what we can say without a doubt is that Weeden was here under Garrett for two years. He should have been much better prepared then he was here in Dallas. He played scared, conservative, with little confidence, and and was told to play with a "play not to lose" mentality. And we know for certain that this is Garretts exact mind frame when things get tight.

Yet the coaching staff over at Houston had the kid for all of a couple weeks at most and he was playing care free football and playing well for them. To me that speaks volumes. So with backup QB types Garrett went 1-11. Houston with backup types for years now has fared much much better. 9-7 you say? I find that quite impressive. Ill take 9-7 over 1-11 all day every day.