Henry vs Elliot

[BigD5]

I've studied hours of tape on Zeke and Henry. Make no doubt about it that Zeke is the definition of a "complete" back. Zeke does not have any "flaw" in his game. He will be a very, very good player, no doubt. Very, very low risk pick.. This guy will clearly be a really good NFL RB. He can play EVERY down. Literally every single down, that is his biggest strength. Don't expect Adrian Peterson though!

Also, the criticisms that some have here of Henry's ability to need a "runway" to get going is 100% true. To put this into application of a real scenario, if Henry gets picked to a team that struggles, particularly at the LOS he will struggle. The thing is, if he plays on the Cowboys, he WILL have that runway to get going. Henry is very slow around the LOS, but once he gets his "runway" he bursts and he is difficult to stop at that point. I liked what I saw from Henry in how he would project in Dallas' offense. I believe both of these backs would find a lot of success in Dallas. I'll do some grades with general gist of my thoughts.

Zeke --
Burst: A (he gets thru the hole fast, moves past the LOS fast)
Long Speed: A- (has a strange knack of getting caught from behind, like he slows down to look back, really annoys me.. not as bad as DeMarco tho)
Agility: A+ (unbelievable footwork, stop/start ability, quick movements, elite change of direction.. on some plays his agility is Shady McCoy-like)
Balance: A
Vision: A
IQ: A+ (you can just see how smart he is on the field after watching 5 mins of him play, even without the ball)
Power: A- (strong for his size, tough as well)
Moves: A- (nice simple juke moves using his agility, also has a spin move he will use)
Finishing Runs: A (always falls forward)
Pad Level: A-
Pass catcher: A-
Ball Security: A+
Blocking: A+
Overall: A

I'm nitpicking, but I wish he had elite breakaway speed to cap off his abilities.. When he is ahead of the pack he constantly looks back, wish he would just put his head down and sprint like his life depended on it. Also whats with their comparison to Marshawn Lynch?.. No not even close, I would compare Zeke Elliot to Marshall Faulk.
Henry --
Burst: A- (starts slow behind LOS but has nice burst once he gets going)
Long Speed: A+ (never ever gets caught from behind)
Agility: C (very slow to move behind LOS, slow COD, biggest weakness -- to be expected at his height/weight)
Balance: C+ (slips, gets tripped up)
Vision: A+ (had holes in Bama, but really knew where he needed to go even when LOS got clogged up, problem was a lot of times he couldn't get to that spot fast enough bc of lack of agility.. also maneuvers into positions to assist his blockers. I believe this trait is very important in how he would fit into Dallas)
IQ: B+ (lacking when he doesn't have the ball in his hands)
Power: A- (he actually doesn't display as much power as you'd like for his size.. this should be an A+. he is NOT a PURE POWER back)
Moves: B-
Finishing Runs: A (same comments as power, this should be an A+.. but he definitely falls forward, doesn't "punish" defenders like you'd expect. This guy is NOT a pure POWER back ie Brandon Jacobs.. everyone makes this comparison but it is simply not true. Jacobs was a pure bruiser where as Henry is more of a technician / home run runner. He shows less power than DeMarco Murray, that being said maybe this would develop in his time in the NFL. Honestly any scout who says Henry compares to Jacobs is being extremely lazy or hasn't watched his tape, this dude is not a bulldozer)
Pad Level: C (think DeMarco Murray)
Pass catcher: B- (dunno why people criticize his receiving skills, he is definitely not bad)
Ball Security: A+
Blocking: B (has some good moments in blocking, but man he is really soft in blocking for his size)
Overall: B (his strengths would put him at a B+/A- in Dallas.. his vision, long speed, and ability to be a bellcow RB would translate well to our offense. One issue would be his pass blocking)

One weird thing I noticed is that Zeke is a tougher football player than Henry, despite Henry being way bigger. This really shows in Zeke's blocking, and his general competitive toughness when he isn't getting the ball. Henry seems a bit soft when blocking and when he isn't carrying the ball.

Zeke has the big advantage in that he could be on the field for every single play and it'd never be a giveaway with what the offense is doing. It'd be tough to trust Henry to protect for Romo, particularly as a rookie. I believe Henry would be a fantastic runner (not a total back) behind our OL. It just comes down to the cost of Zeke (#4) vs Henry (#34). Its weird when I type this out because I actually like Henry a lot, but Zeke is a much better total back than him. If Zeke had Henry's long run speed.. my god. If we picked Henry I would hope that he developed his power game more so with an NFL strength/conditioning program + some coaching. He doesn't utilize his size as much as he should.

Ultimately I don't believe we will take Zeke at #4, he could be in play if we trade down. I wouldn't be surprised if we pick Henry in the 2nd.

Your analysis of Derrick couldn't be further off. A soft blocker? Are you kidding me? Henry is an outstanding blocker on pass plays. And not as tough as Eliot? Haha ok man

How bout we attempt to measure something else like attitude and teammate? Elliot has a terrible me first selfish attitude. Whereas Henry is the ultimate teammate and has an outstanding attitude and displays tremendous leadership. Elliot ripped his spineless head coach and the rest of the offensive coaching staff after they lost to Michigan state, live on tv after the game. Henry is nothing but class and a champion

 

[BigD5]

Just posted it for anyone that didn't know what you were talking about..








Also, I'll show Elliot some love...

Elliot is definetely better at creating around the Line of scrimmage.

Wow those are some great runs against Indiana, Illinois, western Michigan, Rutgers and penn st. Talk about some tough defenses there

 

[Hardline]

Wow those are some great runs against Indiana, Illinois, western Michigan, Rutgers and penn st. Talk about some tough defenses there

He also did it against Michigan, Alabama and Oregon.

 

[HellCrowe]

How much better is Elliot than Henry if better at all?


I am absolutely shocked at how well Henry has tested over this process. He is an explosive player at 6'3 250lbs.

Plus... The value of getting potentially Ramsey and Henry a round later.

If it's the 4th quarter Derrick Henry is the last guy you want running at you.

I'm affraid a lot us must be missing it with this guy because he is so unorthodox looking but all he has done is produced and his testing confirmed everything he has done.

He's just an absolute tank and a guy that can impose his will on teams.

The biggest difference between EE and Henry other than their size is their running styles. The reason Henry isn't considered in the top 10 even with his immense measurable is the same reason why RBs don't carry the same value as years past.

I do see him as a terror but for how long? Brandon Jacobs anyone? This is the same reason I tip my hand to EE ovee Gurley because he takes less straight on hits and has a higher chance of lengthier career at prime level success than the other two guys.

Yes Ramsey + Henry looks good on paper but Ramsey won't have the same impact from day 1 if we plug him in at CB from the start. He is a safety and plays like one. But does that merritt a 4th round pick? Same can be said for EE at RB at 4 but we all know our OL is one of the best. Put EE back there and I can guarantee he will have better success this year than Ramsey in our secondary.

 

[DFWJC]

Henry will need the right situation. If he gets that...look out.

Elliott would probably have success anywhere, in any offense.

If Henry goes a full round to round and a half later--which is very possible--I don't see that marginal upgrade for Dallas specifically would be nearly enough.

 

[BAT]

The biggest difference between EE and Henry other than their size is their running styles. The reason Henry isn't considered in the top 10 even with his immense measurable is the same reason why RBs don't carry the same value as years past.

I do see him as a terror but for how long? Brandon Jacobs anyone? This is the same reason I tip my hand to EE ovee Gurley because he takes less straight on hits and has a higher chance of lengthier career at prime level success than the other two guys.

Yes Ramsey + Henry looks good on paper but Ramsey won't have the same impact from day 1 if we plug him in at CB from the start. He is a safety and plays like one. But does that merritt a 4th round pick? Same can be said for EE at RB at 4 but we all know our OL is one of the best. Put EE back there and I can guarantee he will have better success this year than Ramsey in our secondary.

Henry is a better athlete than Jacobs IMO, plays with speed as much as power. Jacobs was strictly a power back. Henry is all about finding open space, a one cut speed back with crazy size.

 

[Tristan]

EE is an elite back on any team. Henry has bust potential if he goes to the wrong situation. He needs an elite line to make holes so he can get up to speed. Anyone know of any elite lines?

I agree he like most backs needs a system that works with his skill set.

but the Idea that he takes more time to get up to speed is a dead wrong misconception that is the main reason most are leary of him IMO.

This Sports Science Episode completely squashed that B.S.! Fact is he has the fastest initial accelleration in the 20 and 5 yard tests of any player in this draft, including Wr's and CB's, Ramsey is second behind him, think about that for a second.

He also had the fastest time in either the 5 or 20 of ANY PLAYER TESTED in the last 3 years!!

I remember watching him against LSU when Fournette was supposed to be Bo Jackson II, Henry destroyed LSU all day and sure looked like by far the best player on the field IMO!

He might be the last player I want to see on another team in our Division, would make me very ill!

BTW, I LOVE E.E. And he too had sick tests! like the abilty to see a hole and cut through it faster than anybody tested since Adrian Peterson!! He reminds me very much of Emmitt the way he slivers through everything and has the best vision and power. EE has sick WR break away speed too!

I think theyre both top 10-15 players and both very, very rare in their own way.

 

[HellCrowe]

Henry is a better athlete than Jacobs IMO, plays with speed as much as power. Jacobs was strictly a power back. Henry is all about finding open space, a one cut speed back with crazy size.

I was pointing out the longevity because of his size and the style of back he is. Sure he is faster and just as strong as Jacobs but that doesn't diminish the fact that he is a bigger back that also runs straight up.

 

[BAT]

I was pointing out the longevity because of his size and the style of back he is. Sure he is faster and just as strong as Jacobs but that doesn't diminish the fact that he is a bigger back that also runs straight up.

Henry is tall and does have an upright running style, but he doesn't seem to take a lot of big hits. Mostly because he has the speed to run away from defenses in the open field. But even before he gets lit up, he will just fall forward. Kind of reminds me of Emmitt in that way, he falls forward to avoid the ESPN highlight hit, or he smacks the guy in the mouth first. And the longevity argument actually supports Henry because Henry has only had ONE season as a workhorse back (heckuva season no doubt) while Elliott has been the man on that OSU team for several seasons.

And many pro-Henry fans use the level of competition to strengthen their argument - Henry racked up more yards (over 2K) and against much better competition than Zeke in 2015. But I'm more impressed by the 28 TDs he racked up against teams like Clemson, Florida, Auburn, etc. Henry always seems to be running for first downs or touch downs. It's crazy that Henry never gets caught from behind. And every time Henry is tackled defenders are usually sprawled on their back and/or limping off the field.

Elliot is a better all around back right now, but his upside is limited. Will teams fear him/game plan to stop him? Elliott will never be a Peterson or even a Gurley. Henry is a RB that can dominate games at the pro level especially behind the Cowboys OL.

 

[HellCrowe]

Henry is tall and does have an upright running style, but he doesn't seem to take a lot of big hits. Mostly because he has the speed to run away from defenses in the open field. But even before he gets lit up, he will just fall forward. Kind of reminds me of Emmitt in that way, he falls forward to avoid the ESPN highlight hit, or he smacks the guy in the mouth first. And the longevity argument actually supports Henry because Henry has only had ONE season as a workhorse back (heckuva season no doubt) while Elliott has been the man on that OSU team for several seasons.

And many pro-Henry fans use the level of competition to strengthen their argument - Henry racked up more yards (over 2K) and against much better competition than Zeke in 2015. But I'm more impressed by the 28 TDs he racked up against teams like Clemson, Florida, Auburn, etc. Henry always seems to be running for first downs or touch downs. It's crazy that Henry never gets caught from behind. And every time Henry is tackled defenders are usually sprawled on their back and/or limping off the field.

Elliot is a better all around back right now, but his upside is limited. Will teams fear him/game plan to stop him? Elliott will never be a Peterson or even a Gurley. Henry is a RB that can dominate games at the pro level especially behind the Cowboys OL.

If that's what you like to believe then cool. What I see is a big back about to play in a league with pro LBs, S, and DL. Unless the hole is wide open I see him taking big shots to his lower legs. Also, I'd have to disagree with your statement that Elliot's upside is limited because I'm sure you've heard that argument from everyone else. Not only do I see EE having higher upside but also a longer healthier career compared to Gurley and Henry. He is considered top 5 in many boards for a reason and it's not because of low upside.

 

[BAT]

If that's what you like to believe then cool. What I see is a big back about to play in a league with pro LBs, S, and DL. Unless the hole is wide open I see him taking big shots to his lower legs. Also, I'd have to disagree with your statement that Elliot's upside is limited because I'm sure you've heard that argument from everyone else. Not only do I see EE having higher upside but also a longer healthier career compared to Gurley and Henry. He is considered top 5 in many boards for a reason and it's not because of low upside.

I meant that Elliott is the more finished product versus Henry. Elliott is easily the more complete back in terms of skills but Elliott is maxed out physically. Henry is 6-3 250 plus but is still lean enough that he can easily put on another 10 lbs or more without affecting his speed. Henry ran a 4.54 at 254 lbs at the combine. But more impressive is his explosiveness, 37 vert and almost 11 foot broad.

I like Elliott don't get me wrong but where would you rank him behind next year's first round backs?

 

[HellCrowe]

I meant that Elliott is the more finished product versus Henry. Elliott is easily the more complete back in terms of skills but Elliott is maxed out physically. Henry is 6-3 250 plus but is still lean enough that he can easily put on another 10 lbs or more without affecting his speed. Henry ran a 4.54 at 254 lbs at the combine. But more impressive is his explosiveness, 37 vert and almost 11 foot broad.

I like Elliott don't get me wrong but where would you rank him behind next year's first round backs?

I'd put Fournette and EE 1a 1b as top rbs ifor it were this year's draft. However I don't really like to get into that because here is an example.

You have Kobe Bryant arguably the best player this generation has seen. Now you have Steph Curry whose stats say he is even deadlier than a prime kobe. Injuries have derailed him this season and now out with an MCL strain in thr Playoffs. The difference? Longevity. Same goes for Emmitt Smith, Ladanian Tomlinson, and Adrian Peterson.

What I know is EE has ideal measurables, healthy, smart (34/50), athletic, and his running style has a mixture of craftiness and power which is very promising when you want to talk about a career. Let's see if fournette can do it again and we can talk about next year's draft, next year.

 

[CATCH17]

 

[BAT]

I'd put Fournette and EE 1a 1b as top rbs ifor it were this year's draft. However I don't really like to get into that because here is an example.

You have Kobe Bryant arguably the best player this generation has seen. Now you have Steph Curry whose stats say he is even deadlier than a prime kobe. Injuries have derailed him this season and now out with an MCL strain in thr Playoffs. The difference? Longevity. Same goes for Emmitt Smith, Ladanian Tomlinson, and Adrian Peterson.

What I know is EE has ideal measurables, healthy, smart (34/50), athletic, and his running style has a mixture of craftiness and power which is very promising when you want to talk about a career. Let's see if fournette can do it again and we can talk about next year's draft, next year.

IMO, it's Fournette then Chubb. EE would be in a battle with Dalvin Cook for 3rd back taken in first round. McCaffrey is the wild card. And even against this class, Elliott is still the more complete back. But as good a receiver as Elliott is, McCaffrey is much better. Both Cook and McCaffrey are more explosive returners as well.

 

[texbumthelife]

It's pretty clear what the difference is when you watch their change of direction ability live. Henry may run through guys, but he's not making anyone in the NFL miss. I've got no problem with Henry in the second, but Elliott is an elite talent who possesses everything you could possibly desire in a back. He has no weakness. I am not saying he can't bust, but he's explosive, has great vision, great health, doesn't fumble and has good hands. There's not much more you could ask for in a back.

 

[texbumthelife]

IMO, it's Fournette then Chubb. EE would be in a battle with Dalvin Cook for 3rd back taken in first round. McCaffrey is the wild card. And even against this class, Elliott is still the more complete back. But as good a receiver as Elliott is, McCaffrey is much better. Both Cook and McCaffrey are more explosive returners as well.

I think Dalvin Cook is the best back when all is said and done next year.

 

[texbumthelife]

I've studied hours of tape on Zeke and Henry. Make no doubt about it that Zeke is the definition of a "complete" back. Zeke does not have any "flaw" in his game. He will be a very, very good player, no doubt. Very, very low risk pick.. This guy will clearly be a really good NFL RB. He can play EVERY down. Literally every single down, that is his biggest strength. Don't expect Adrian Peterson though!

Also, the criticisms that some have here of Henry's ability to need a "runway" to get going is 100% true. To put this into application of a real scenario, if Henry gets picked to a team that struggles, particularly at the LOS he will struggle. The thing is, if he plays on the Cowboys, he WILL have that runway to get going. Henry is very slow around the LOS, but once he gets his "runway" he bursts and he is difficult to stop at that point. I liked what I saw from Henry in how he would project in Dallas' offense. I believe both of these backs would find a lot of success in Dallas. I'll do some grades with general gist of my thoughts.

Zeke --
Burst: A (he gets thru the hole fast, moves past the LOS fast)
Long Speed: A- (has a strange knack of getting caught from behind, like he slows down to look back, really annoys me.. not as bad as DeMarco tho)
Agility: A+ (unbelievable footwork, stop/start ability, quick movements, elite change of direction.. on some plays his agility is Shady McCoy-like)
Balance: A
Vision: A
IQ: A+ (you can just see how smart he is on the field after watching 5 mins of him play, even without the ball)
Power: A- (strong for his size, tough as well)
Moves: A- (nice simple juke moves using his agility, also has a spin move he will use)
Finishing Runs: A (always falls forward)
Pad Level: A-
Pass catcher: A-
Ball Security: A+
Blocking: A+
Overall: A

I'm nitpicking, but I wish he had elite breakaway speed to cap off his abilities.. When he is ahead of the pack he constantly looks back, wish he would just put his head down and sprint like his life depended on it. Also whats with their comparison to Marshawn Lynch?.. No not even close, I would compare Zeke Elliot to Marshall Faulk.
Henry --
Burst: A- (starts slow behind LOS but has nice burst once he gets going)
Long Speed: A+ (never ever gets caught from behind)
Agility: C (very slow to move behind LOS, slow COD, biggest weakness -- to be expected at his height/weight)
Balance: C+ (slips, gets tripped up)
Vision: A+ (had holes in Bama, but really knew where he needed to go even when LOS got clogged up, problem was a lot of times he couldn't get to that spot fast enough bc of lack of agility.. also maneuvers into positions to assist his blockers. I believe this trait is very important in how he would fit into Dallas)
IQ: B+ (lacking when he doesn't have the ball in his hands)
Power: A- (he actually doesn't display as much power as you'd like for his size.. this should be an A+. he is NOT a PURE POWER back)
Moves: B-
Finishing Runs: A (same comments as power, this should be an A+.. but he definitely falls forward, doesn't "punish" defenders like you'd expect. This guy is NOT a pure POWER back ie Brandon Jacobs.. everyone makes this comparison but it is simply not true. Jacobs was a pure bruiser where as Henry is more of a technician / home run runner. He shows less power than DeMarco Murray, that being said maybe this would develop in his time in the NFL. Honestly any scout who says Henry compares to Jacobs is being extremely lazy or hasn't watched his tape, this dude is not a bulldozer)
Pad Level: C (think DeMarco Murray)
Pass catcher: B- (dunno why people criticize his receiving skills, he is definitely not bad)
Ball Security: A+
Blocking: B (has some good moments in blocking, but man he is really soft in blocking for his size)
Overall: B (his strengths would put him at a B+/A- in Dallas.. his vision, long speed, and ability to be a bellcow RB would translate well to our offense. One issue would be his pass blocking)

One weird thing I noticed is that Zeke is a tougher football player than Henry, despite Henry being way bigger. This really shows in Zeke's blocking, and his general competitive toughness when he isn't getting the ball. Henry seems a bit soft when blocking and when he isn't carrying the ball.

Zeke has the big advantage in that he could be on the field for every single play and it'd never be a giveaway with what the offense is doing. It'd be tough to trust Henry to protect for Romo, particularly as a rookie. I believe Henry would be a fantastic runner (not a total back) behind our OL. It just comes down to the cost of Zeke (#4) vs Henry (#34). Its weird when I type this out because I actually like Henry a lot, but Zeke is a much better total back than him. If Zeke had Henry's long run speed.. my god. If we picked Henry I would hope that he developed his power game more so with an NFL strength/conditioning program + some coaching. He doesn't utilize his size as much as he should.

Ultimately I don't believe we will take Zeke at #4, he could be in play if we trade down. I wouldn't be surprised if we pick Henry in the 2nd.

Great post! Both backs are good talents and both would excel here, but Zeke is absolutely the superior back. I don't really like your Faulk comparison though. Faulk was much more of a scat/receiving back. I think Lesean McCoy is a good comparison for Elliott, but I think Elliott is better at this point in his career.

 

[Silver N Blue]

EE is an elite back on any team. Henry has bust potential if he goes to the wrong situation. He needs an elite line to make holes so he can get up to speed. Anyone know of any elite lines?

Bama back =bust/no bellcow

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Henry looks like a "concussion machine" in the making. He doesn't make people miss and he isn't going to be able to "out speed" guys in the NFL. With that high-running style he's going to take kill-shots often.

 

[BubbleScreen]

How much better is Elliot than Henry if better at all?


I am absolutely shocked at how well Henry has tested over this process. He is an explosive player at 6'3 250lbs.

I am a big fan of Henry's play at Bama. But can someone explain this?



And can the Zeke fans tell us why he's better than Beanie Wells?

I want to like both backs, but how do you project him with any confidence?