Here you go Jerry

[TheDude]

Oh my gosh.

My wanna try again was about the structure of your sentence, which was butchered. You edited it later. Get over it already.

Sadly you think you comment bothered me. I fly through responses and don't proof.

What bothers me is you being condescending to people while you continue to defend every football decision made by the organization.

You takethe coward's way out to address my sentence structure, but you don't address the fact that this regime has 3-4 keepers in 3 years of work. The football guys are a joke. Because someone says a is generic comment you ride in defending people you know in the org like they pulled you from a burning car.

You are not objective about this. I enjoy reading many of your posts but you have become an ugly person

You entry into this thread was smug and condescending and you call me out later for smug and someone else for a "Hos says so" coment - hypocritical

 

[dbair1967]

I'd rather be in fantasy world than your lollipop world. To answer your question...I don't know. He is getting older; maybe that's part of it.

So that couldnt have possibly been the case or had any impact on his decison to leave here. Right?

 

[Hostile]

Sadly you think you comment bothered me. I fly through responses and don't proof.

What bothers me is you being condescending to people while you continue to defend every football decision made by the organization.

You takethe coward's way out to address my sentence structure, but you don't address the fact that this regime has 3-4 keepers in 3 years of work. The football guys are a joke. Because someone says a is generic comment you ride in defending people you know in the org like they pulled you from a burning car.

You are not objective about this. I enjoy reading many of your posts but you have become an ugly person

You entry into this thread was smug and condescending and you call me out later for smug and someone else for a "Hos says so" coment - hypocritical

Once again I get accused of this and it is false.

Is there anyone on this forum more opposed to the 50 year patch than me? If so I want to buy that person a steak.

I support not having Drew Pearson, Harvey Martin, and other worthy members of the 70's and 80's legacy excluded from the ROH? NO, I don't.

I defend what I think is right. I attack what I think is wrong on every subject. No one thinks for me.

 

[Hostile]

The point is that it is and should be the coach's choice, not Jerry Jones'.

Do you actually think that Wade Phillips or any other candidate had the ability to take the Dallas head coaching job if he didn not accept Jason Garrett?

And trust me, many football people do not have the same opinion that you do of Garrett at this time, so "qualified, respected, and talented" are not universally held opinions of him.

Coaches want to hire their own staffs, not 'suggestions' from ownership.

I get the "point." I have always got the "point." I just happen to think it is utter nonsense.

No coach in the NFL has hired their entire staff. The closest to it is Pete Carroll and even he retained some of the old staff. Whether you people want to acknowledge it or not that is a common practice in the NFL because assistant coaches do have contracts. Fire them and you owe them money for not working for you.

I do not see any difference in Bob Bratkowski being the OC in Cincy before Marvin Lewis was hired and Garrett being the OC in Dallas before Wade was hired.

It is searching for bogeymen.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

I disagree. I don't see a coach as a middle manager, and if you have a chance to take the hot young phenom you are stupid not to.

I know a guy who graduated college at 19 with a Masters in Computer Science. This guy can sit as a train goes by and add the 5 digit numbers on the cars in his head. His Dad rented our house when I was in my teens. He told me that when Michael was in college he didn't take his books to class one time. He was an art professor at the same college so he ran the books by and his professor told him that Michael did not need the books because he had written his own.

When Michael graduated he went to Silicon Valley and dressed pretty much like a hippie he walked into the offices of Hewlet Packard and asked to see the President. He was asked if he had an appointment and he said he did not need one. The President agreed and Michael met him and gave him a salary demand. He was told no one makes that much. Michael replied that he would and he walked out. 30 minutes later he had a job.

Michael is a social misfit, but he is a computer development genius. Companies that do not seek genius usually ind themselves trailing their competitors.

Now you will say something clever about 1-5. We're having a bad year. That's football. If you think the three teams above us in our division wouldn't love to have Garrett if they had an opening you are deluded.

Nice ancedote.

and, true dat, re others moving on Garrett.
Garrett is OC and not the personnel guy. I am amazed that the lack of a running game (and thus an imbalanced offensive attack) has not been linked to the god-awful offensive line we have. Garrett has been victimized by that O-line and victimized by coaching in the shadow of Mister Wade Phillips, whose defense earlier in the season was not helping the offense with take-aways or stopping opposing offenses that give the Cowboys good field positions.
The garrett haters have missed the point and dat is so unfortunate.

 

[Stash]

I get the "point." I have always got the "point." I just happen to think it is utter nonsense.

No coach in the NFL has hired their entire staff. The closest to it is Pete Carroll and even he retained some of the old staff. Whether you people want to acknowledge it or not that is a common practice in the NFL because assistant coaches do have contracts. Fire them and you owe them money for not working for you.

I do not see any difference in Bob Bratkowski being the OC in Cincy before Marvin Lewis was hired and Garrett being the OC in Dallas before Wade was hired.

It is searching for bogeymen.

Did Bratkowski ever coach a game before Lewis was hired or did the owner hire him before he hired Lewis?

There's your fundamental difference, one I'm surprised you hadn't noticed.

Garrett in Dallas was a dealbreaker for anyone wanting the head coaching job.

It wasn't optional, you either took the job with Garrett as OC or you didn't take the job.

 

[TheDude]

Once again I get accused of this and it is false.

Is there anyone on this forum more opposed to the 50 year patch than me? If so I want to buy that person a steak.

I support not having Drew Pearson, Harvey Martin, and other worthy members of the 70's and 80's legacy excluded from the ROH? NO, I don't.

I defend what I think is right. I attack what I think is wrong on every subject. No one thinks for me.

All of those examples are style over substance. Non of those effect 1 down of football.

Since you won't address the debate point, I'll ask you defend you position directly:

1) How do reconcile the current regime "football guys" as anything other than an abject failure when you have 4 players that in 3 years that are any good and 3 of those being 1st rounders - Spencer, Dez, Jenkins

2) How do you reconcile that Parcells era has Ware, Romo, Austin, Ratliff, Witten, James, Newman, McBriar, Gourode, Spears, Hurd, McBriar, Ladeucer-most are THE marquee names in the franchise.

3) how would you compare the talent and depth in 2007 to 2010?

4) who is responsible? Not Jerry? OK then his Football guys suck. and doubly worse, Jerry can't recognize it.

5) Who has done less with more? the Pasrcells era or the Phillips era?

6) Does Stephen Jones get a personell job in any other organization?

7) If you are about hiring a young hot shot? Why not lobby for getting a Pioli, or keeping Ireland?


There's more, but those will start it

 

[Stash]

Nice ancedote.

and, true dat, re others moving on Garrett.
Garrett is OC and not the personnel guy. I am amazed that the lack of a running game (and thus an imbalanced offensive attack) has not been linked to the god-awful offensive line we have. Garrett has been victimized by that O-line and victimized by coaching in the shadow of Mister Wade Phillips, whose defense earlier in the season was not helping the offense with take-aways or stopping opposing offenses that give the Cowboys good field positions.
The garrett haters have missed the point and dat is so unfortunate.

So Garrett is a victim here with no power over his offense, his practices, or the players he can or cannot put on the field?

Then he can't possibly win in the face of the insurmountable forces conspiring against him and he should resign immediately.

 

[TheDude]

Nice ancedote.

and, true dat, re others moving on Garrett.
Garrett is OC and not the personnel guy. I am amazed that the lack of a running game (and thus an imbalanced offensive attack) has not been linked to the god-awful offensive line we have. Garrett has been victimized by that O-line and victimized by coaching in the shadow of Mister Wade Phillips, whose defense earlier in the season was not helping the offense with take-aways or stopping opposing offenses that give the Cowboys good field positions.
The garrett haters have missed the point and dat is so unfortunate.

But an OC is suppose to have a system. Shanahan has zone blocking cut back running west coast passing. He hires Alex Gibbs and you had a plug and play system in Denver for a running game. You got a certain type of Oline etc. Parcells was more ball control, long sustained drives - bigger linemen , etc.

Garrett is OC and we get L Davis. Fine. but now we are a passing team and the slow linemen are getting lapped.

Jerry isn't active remember, so the football guys have either "forced" these guys on Garrett or he wanted them.

If Garrett was the hotshot people proclaim, part of a HC and OC job is to get teh people in the system you want to run. If not, tailor your system to their strengths. But now he gets off scott free because personnell was "forced", but I guess this forced personell eliminates any credit he should get for early 2007.

The guy will alweays be remembered as the Brad Johnson champion, the 0 touches for Felix guy and the lack of talent he developed

If he was a leader, he did not "manage up" and therefore that is a failure also.

Football guys around the league will confirm when he get 0 interviews for a HC position this year (like last).

 

[Hostile]

Did Bratkowski ever coach a game before Lewis was hired or did the owner hire him before he hired Lewis?

There's your fundamental difference, one I'm surprised you hadn't noticed.

Garrett in Dallas was a dealbreaker for anyone wanting the head coaching job.

It wasn't optional, you either took the job with Garrett as OC or you didn't take the job.

At the bottom of my post I said "I see no difference."

You want to be hung up over Garrett being hired first. I don't give two hoots in hell over any coach being hired first.

When Garrett was getting interviews Wade could have told Jerry to let him go. Instead he asked him to retain him if he could.

It is a non issue on the team. Now if only the fans could get over it.

 

[TheDude]

Here is a perfect example of Garrett's incompetence.

Seems our favorite pass is the WR screen, which rarely get more than 1-2 yards. Why does it fail?

rewatch the Giants game, Watch every screen they throw, there was an olineman there IMMEDIATELY in time to take out the defender. Almost every pass they made gained between 6-15 yards.

The personnell fits that play for one team and not the other. Smaller quicker linemen can get out and block that. Davis, et al are always late. This is why there were few screens (RB or WR) in the Norv 1990s years.

Watch any team make that WR screen throw and watch how it is executed byt the line. Then watch us.

Yet, the hotshot indemand hire continues to run it 5 times a game for 5 yards.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Football guys around the league will confirm when he get 0 interviews for a HC position this year (like last).

amazing.
In a world that a Wade is hired as a HC . . . Garrett can't get an interview?

Also, as part of the NFL's push for diversity in the ranks of coaching, Garrett should get an interview just for being smart and having graduated from Princeton.

 

[craig71]

He himself hired an assistant coach before he hired his head coach. I can fault him for that. Continue that practice and you'll continue to get 3-time loser candidates and you'll continue to get lousy results.

You can fault him all you want for doing it, that is your opinion. He got a three time loser canididate because there was not much else available, not because of Garrett.

Just don't have the nerve to be surprised at the results.

Surprised that every armchair GM has better ideas than the people who are actually in charge, including myself, why would that surprise me?

The entire Dallas dysfunctional dynamic can be called a 'unique situation' too.

Simply put, Cowher would never accept it.

If Jerry wants to do business that way, all of the other positives in Dallas will not matter. Coaches of Cowher's quality won't even talk to him.

Only Cowher can answer that question, do you pretend to know his thoughts? You are making an assumption here that you can not base with fact. Now if Cowher is brought in for an interview and turns down the job because Garrett comes with the job, well, feel free to crow like no one has crowed before.

And are you naive enough to actually think that Wade had the power to make that decision one way or the other?

Really?

Garrett was already hired, here, and under contract.

At best he was going to be the head coach. At worst he was going to be the offensive coordinator.

The only thing Wade could have changed was declining the offer and the requirements, making Garrett the head coach.

Wade said that he was going to talk to Garrett, he did, Garrett was named OC. Why prolong the inevitable, why not just come out and say Jason is my guy? If he wasn't sure about Garrett he should have turned down the job. I actually think the thing that sold Wade on the deal at the time was Tony Sparano being there for Garrett to lean on. Bright young assistant that is an unknown, paired with Sparano is not that big of a deal to me. Now if Garrett would have flown solo that first year, well, that is another story.


Craig

 

[Stash]

At the bottom of my post I said "I see no difference."

You want to be hung up over Garrett being hired first. I don't give two hoots in hell over any coach being hired first.

Great, you don't. You. Not anyone else. You.

You can not 'give two hoots', doesn't really matter much in terms of what the teams and coaches do. You don't seem to have any problem with it but you're not directly involved in the process.

When Garrett was getting interviews Wade could have told Jerry to let him go. Instead he asked him to retain him if he could.

Where did he specifically ask to keep him? I'd be interested to see that because I've never heard a whiff of any such thing. And even if Wade did want Garrett gone, he was never in any position to have such influence, going back to before he was ever hired.

It is a non issue on the team. Now if only the fans could get over it.

It's a non-issue for you. And you alone.

For many fans and 'football men', it's a big issue.

 

[TheDude]

amazing.
In a world that a Wade is hired as a HC . . . Garrett can't get an interview?

Also, as part of the NFL's push for diversity in the ranks of coaching, Garrett should get an interview just for being smart and having graduated from Princeton.

Don't let it fool you. That is the reason he got this job. On paper he looks good. As far as having any substance - not so much so far.

The Cowboys should replace their star on the helmet with a sheet of Dunder Mifflins 20lb notebook paper. The motto of this team from Coaches on down is "On Paper"

 

[Hostile]

All of those examples are style over substance. Non of those effect 1 down of football.

I never wanted Pacman, Owens, or any of the other malcontents we did acquire. I never wanted Jon Kitna, Vinny Testaverde, Brad Johnson, or any other dinosaur retread QB. Instead I have wanted younger guys. Is that substance enough for you? Probably not because me being honest will never suffice with your pre-conceived idea of what I think.

Since you won't address the debate point, I'll ask you defend you position directly:

1) How do reconcile the current regime "football guys" as anything other than an abject failure when you have 4 players that in 3 years that are any good and 3 of those being 1st rounders - Spencer, Dez, Jenkins

2) How do you reconcile that Parcells era has Ware, Romo, Austin, Ratliff, Witten, James, Newman, McBriar, Gourode, Spears, Hurd, McBriar, Ladeucer-most are THE marquee names in the franchise.

3) how would you compare the talent and depth in 2007 to 2010?

4) who is responsible? Not Jerry? OK then his Football guys suck. and doubly worse, Jerry can't recognize it.

1, 2, and 3 bore the hell out of me, and I could care less about giving you an answer to them. Assign me an answer and go with it I suppose. That'd be par for the course.

The entire team from Jerry to Jesse Holley is responsible for being 1-5. I put the majority of it on Wade's doorstep and so does he. The team was not ready. Jerry has some fault in this for damned sure.

I have not been talking about fault. I have been talking about assignments and duties.

5) Who has done less with more? the Pasrcells era or the Phillips era?

6) Does Stephen Jones get a personell job in any other organization?

5 bores me. Assign me an answer again.

Stephen could, but no one is going to even make him an offer because it would be futile. He has a stake in this team that no team can match. Silly question.

7) If you are about hiring a young hot shot? Why not lobby for getting a Pioli, or keeping Ireland?

I have. I've also said I'd love to have Ozzie Newsome or Bill Polian. I was a big time coveter of Ron Wolf. I've also said I trust the football skills of Tom Ciskowski.

There's more, but those will start it

Oh joy, oh rapture. Bring them on I suppose.

 

[Hostile]

Where did he specifically ask to keep him? I'd be interested to see that because I've never heard a whiff of any such thing. And even if Wade did want Garrett gone, he was never in any position to have such influence, going back to before he was ever hired.

Don't be naive. Do you really think if Wade wanted him gone he'd still be here?

My gosh.

 

[Hostile]

Don't let it fool you. That is the reason he got this job. On paper he looks good. As far as having any substance - not so much so far.

The Cowboys should replace their star on the helmet with a sheet of Dunder Mifflins 20lb notebook paper. The motto of this team from Coaches on down is "On Paper"

No, he got this job because he chose it over Bama, St. Louis, and Miami. He got this job because we did want him. If we hadn't, he'd still be working and his offenses would still be among the top in the NFL.

 

[Stash]

You can fault him all you want for doing it, that is your opinion. He got a three time loser canididate because there was not much else available, not because of Garrett.

Not much available?

Please. There were plenty of names out there. But few good ones who would work under Jones' conditions.

Surprised that every armchair GM has better ideas than the people who are actually in charge, including myself, why would that surprise me?

You're right. These guys are doing such an amazing, impeccable job, who am I - the consumer who foots the bill for the whole thing - to dare question them?

I should just waste my time, hand over my money and keep my mouth shut.

You be the lemming, I'll think for myself thanks.

Only Cowher can answer that question, do you pretend to know his thoughts? You are making an assumption here that you can not base with fact. Now if Cowher is brought in for an interview and turns down the job because Garrett comes with the job, well, feel free to crow like no one has crowed before.

My point would be more accurate if Cowher takes another job without ever considering the Cowboys. That will show me how screwed up things still are.

Wade said that he was going to talk to Garrett, he did, Garrett was named OC. Why prolong the inevitable, why not just come out and say Jason is my guy? If he wasn't sure about Garrett he should have turned down the job. I actually think the thing that sold Wade on the deal at the time was Tony Sparano being there for Garrett to lean on. Bright young assistant that is an unknown, paired with Sparano is not that big of a deal to me. Now if Garrett would have flown solo that first year, well, that is another story./quote]

I agree about Sparano being here, I'm sure that was a plus. But Wade really didn't have any say in the matter. He 'waited' merely for the sake of perception, allowing some folks like you to actually think he had a choice in the matter.

Just answer this. And this goes for anyone else.

Does anyone think that Wade Phillips could have gotten the Dallas job and forced Garrett out if he had wanted to?

 

[Hostile]

Not much available?

Please. There were plenty of names out there. But few good ones who would work under Jones' conditions.

Name me one coach who has ever not wanted this job when it was available. Name me one coach who ever declined to interview here. Name me one coach who turns us down because of Jones conditions.

My point would be more accurate if Cowher takes another job without ever considering the Cowboys. That will show me how screwed up things still are.

I am going to regret this. Cowher is already considering this job. I will not be shocked if he takes Carolina over this one, but it will be because that is where he lives and he loves it there.

Does anyone think that Wade Phillips could have gotten the Dallas job and forced Garrett out if he had wanted to?

No, I do not, but I also think this is a moot point because no head coach worth a fiddler's damn would have wanted Garrett out.