Hill: 10 Thoughts from Wednesday’s Cowboys practice

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It's not revisionist, they're trying to justify the complaining. But even during the years the OL was legitimately bad, we were obviously rebuilding it, bringing in a top OL coach and throwing roster spots, high picks, and stop-gap VFAs at the problem. Listening to the complaining was like having a guy explain to you why your not fixing his car the whole time you're actually fixing his car.
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LMAO! more hedging and revisionism trying to cover up your laughable praise of Costa et. al.:laugh:

and there was no complaining when they finally started adding worthy OL, just that they did it one player at a time each of the last 4 years. Hello? McFly? ever hear of a window? :angry:
 

Idgit

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Was waiting for you to show up
A thread with revisionist history galore would be incomplete without you

Ah. Care to support that with a single example again? As I always say, it's easy to make accusations if you don't have any regard for actually being correct about anything. You were wrong about Garrett, wrong about the direction of the team, wrong about most of the assumptions you've made since 2010, and now when people call you on it, we're the ones 'revising' things. No, we're just saying what we've said all along. You're having trouble reconciling it with what you used to believe and it's disorienting, so you think something in our arguments must have changed.

The reality is clear, though, and the posts are still there for anybody who wants to see. People (you among them, though I wasn't calling you out in particular) were complaining about the direction of the organization and the state of the OL the entirety of the time it was being rebuilt. Obvious stop-gaps were brought in, and people were angry we hadn't spent $60M on FA OGs instead. Callahan was hired, and it was a shell game because he was replacing Hudson Houck. Nobody who ran the organization knew what they were doing. Stephen Jones was as big an idiot as Jerry was. We were upside down on the salary cap, and we hadn't been drafting any better at all. Blech. All of that nonsense was wrong, and the posters who mostly posted it over and over again in every thread are either gone or quiet. That's not by accident.

Meanwhile, the team did what it did: rebuilt the OL from the outside in, gradually replacing the stop gaps, fixed the scouting department disconnects and improved the staff, and rebuilt a talented 2007 team that had declined gradually until 2010 when the wheels fell off.

We're probably not going to ever agree on RB, but I've pretty consistently said that I don't believe that's a very important offensive position anyway, so there's another example where I haven't revised anything.

I've said above that I agree with you that not addressing QB2 with a legitimate QB of the future this offseason was a big mistake. And I've said for years that not spending the premium picks on premium DL positions has been a mistake (this might be why you have the idea that I've revised my position on the OL, since I never have agreed that spending premium picks on OGs was a smart use of resources. Center, though,is another matter, and the Zack Martin pick was really a case of BPA in that round, so we had to do it and I supported it). I still feel that way. We got very lucky that Hardy was available as a true impact player for even a season, and that Gregory fell. If that didn't happen, we'd be looking to replace QB and be in the middle of rebuilding the DL on the fly at the same time at the end of Romo's career. Those were low probability bets. But, hey, we got lucky. I'm not complaining about it, it just wasn't the safest way to go about rebuilding the team.
 
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Idgit

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LMAO! more hedging and revisionism trying to cover up your laughable praise of Costa et. al.:laugh:

and there was no complaining when they finally started adding worthy OL, just that they did it one player at a time each of the last 4 years. Hello? McFly? ever hear of a window? :angry:


Dig up what I said about Costa and get back to me with how much my opinion has revised. Don't prop up a straw man that never had any straw in it in the first place.

Costa was what he was: a small school rookie who came in, made the roster, earned starters snaps on a value contract for us at a time where we had very limited OL options, earned an extension in Dallas at higher than the league minimum, and then who earned another contract with another contender after he was let go in Dallas, again above league minimum. He retired because of injury and not because of an inability to play in the league. Every team in the league needs those players, and all of them have them.

And there was complaining the *entire* time the rebuild was happening. From the point we hired the OL coach, to after we selected the LT. After each veteran stop gap was added. About Doug Free his entire tenure here. About Bernardeau and Livings. About street free agents like Costa and Leary who came out of nowhere and gave us starters snaps. You guys embarrassed yourselves on the topic the entire time the rebuild was underway. Ignoring the fact that the secondary was also in shambles and that we had very real cap limitations that the CBA and that Austin penalty made much worse. I don't know what you're smoking if you don't think that was going on, but I know it was happening because I was in every thread on the topic suggesting you guys calm down and let the plan for the OL work itself out.

Window or no, there is a limit to how quickly a team can rebuild with no cap room and an expensive aging roster. We did it in three seasons, while still remaining competitive into week 17 each season, with a brand new coach. Some of us were able to see that that was going on. The rest of us didn't, and threw a fit and now have to resort to pretending somebody revised something on them when the reality is the whole thing proceeded exactly the way we were telling you it was proceeding, all along.
 

Idgit

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LMAO! more hedging and revisionism trying to cover up your laughable praise of Costa et. al.:laugh:

and there was no complaining when they finally started adding worthy OL, just that they did it one player at a time each of the last 4 years. Hello? McFly? ever hear of a window? :angry:


Since I was the one who mentioned supporting arguments if your'e going to call somebody revisionist, EGG, here's an example of what I am talking about when I say there was complaining going on the entire time the OL was being rebuilt. This example is one of yours:

The only thing different this year is a rookie "first round" center, nothing substantial that would warrant optimism given last year's disaster,,, we're all hoping on our long shots to develop into something serviceable, that's all.

EGG, Jun 14, 2013
http://cowboyszone.com/threads/my-p...ll-have-a-serviceable-ol.256938/#post-5100555

That's in regard to the drafting of Frederick, obviously, in 2013. After the hiring of Callahan and after the drafting of Tyron Smith, too. After we'd added Ron Leary in 2012 (he was one of the long shots we were hoping to develop, presumably) and with Doug Free already on the roster. But before the addition of Zack Martin.

Care to change your stance? Let me guess.
 
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Since I was the one who mentioned supporting arguments if your'e going to call somebody revisionist, EGG, here's an example of what I am talking about when I say there was complaining going on the entire time the OL was being rebuilt. This example is one of yours:



That's in regard to the drafting of Frederick, obviously, in 2013. After the hiring of Callahan and after the drafting of Tyron Smith, too. After we'd added Ron Leary in 2012 (he was one of the long shots we were hoping to develop, presumably) and with Doug Free already on the roster. But before the addition of Zack Martin.

Care to change your stance? Let me guess.

That quote speaks directly to my complaint that they were adding only 1 quality OL at a time every year. lol at the smugness followed by a reach and a whiff,,, :lmao2:

Tyron 2011
Leary 2012 (and the Leary success was a little lucky, they didn't use major resources for that)
T Fred 2013
 
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Idgit

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That quote speaks directly to my complaint that they were adding only 1 quality OL at a time every year. lol at the smugness followed by a reach and a whiff,,, :lmao2:

Tyron 2011
Leary 2012 (and the Leary success was a little lucky, they didn't use major resources for that)
T Fred 2013
Martin 2014

I'm sorry, EGG, but that smugness was entirely earned. This is you, complaining about the OL rebuild in the middle of the OL rebuild, after posting immediately above that there was no complaining going on about the rebuild. Downplaying the Frederick selection. Overlooking the Leary addition. Obviously not crediting the play of Free. The only player who had not been added at that point was Martin. And you, personally, were still complaining. Not about the pace of player addition. About the quality of the OL.

Just like I said people were doing in a thread where you're trying to pretend that *I* was the one who had revised my position. I didn't. You did. You were still complaining about the OL in 2013 after the addition of Bill Callahan, Tyron Smith, Ron Leary, and Travis Frederick and with Doug Free already on the roster.
 

Idgit

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@visionary, because it was in the thread I looked up in debating EGG, here's an example of a post of my own on the topic of the OL from that same time period. It pretty much backs up what I said above in terms of my take then, and how it really hasn't changed much since my take now. I was down on Free at that point, but recall that that was right after the season he'd had so much trouble adjusting to Callahan's ZBS, so I still think that's pretty reasonable.

http://cowboyszone.com/threads/my-p...e-a-serviceable-ol.256938/page-7#post-5102419

I'm only posting this because you like to talk about my opinions shifting a lot. I posted a lot in that particular thread, including about Phil Costa if you're really interested. I believe most of it holds up fairly well.
 

5Stars

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check down city quote had my laughing and concerned all at the same time

Yeah, that concerns me too! lol

I mean the article said all of his passes were check downs! WTH! At least fire a bomb off to Dez or at least try!!
 

darthseinfeld

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It's not revisionist history at all, it's fact. Our offensive line was really good in 2007 and 2008, they started to decline in 2009. In the 2010 draft we got Dez Bryant early, we changed up the coaching staff, and our offensive line has been a priority since.

It didn't take us a decade to address our offensive line problems. If you believe we should have addressed it in the 2009 (We all know that fiasco) or 2010 draft (Again, we got both Bryant and Lee that year), fine. But let's not exaggerate here.

We had a top 5 OL in 2007. Not as good as last years, but they dominated teams. Adams played at an All Pro level. Davis was a monster, Gurode for all his issues snapping was a dominant inside blocker, Koiser and Colombo were solid. What did us in that year as far as the OL goes is probably Adams inconsistency. After ragdolling Umenyiora for 2 and a half games, Umenyiora finally learned out to beat him the 2nd half of the playoff game.

They maintained that level of play in 2008. 2009 they were solid, but Davis and Adams started to break down
 

BigStar

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LMAO! more hedging and revisionism trying to cover up your laughable praise of Costa et. al.:laugh:

and there was no complaining when they finally started adding worthy OL, just that they did it one player at a time each of the last 4 years. Hello? McFly? ever hear of a window? :angry:

Aka wasting Romo's prime (still top 5 fortunately). Great points that are conveniently overlooked during these OL "rebuild plan" convos. Romo's health would force their hand a bit; least you would think?
 
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I'm sorry, EGG, but that smugness was entirely earned. This is you, complaining about the OL rebuild in the middle of the OL rebuild, after posting immediately above that there was no complaining going on about the rebuild. Downplaying the Frederick selection. Overlooking the Leary addition. Obviously not crediting the play of Free. The only player who had not been added at that point was Martin. And you, personally, were still complaining. Not about the pace of player addition. About the quality of the OL.

Just like I said people were doing in a thread where you're trying to pretend that *I* was the one who had revised my position. I didn't. You did. You were still complaining about the OL in 2013 after the addition of Bill Callahan, Tyron Smith, Ron Leary, and Travis Frederick and with Doug Free already on the roster.

You, sir, need some help with reading comprehension:
"and there was no complaining when they finally started adding worthy OL, just that they did it one player at a time each of the last 4 years. Hello? McFly? ever hear of a window?

Costa and Bernie and company,,, your posts are the damning posts you should feverishly search for, you'll have more luck.
 

Idgit

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You, sir, need some help with reading comprehension:
"and there was no complaining when they finally started adding worthy OL, just that they did it one player at a time each of the last 4 years. Hello? McFly? ever hear of a window?

Costa and Bernie and company,,, your posts are the damning posts you should feverishly search for, you'll have more luck.

And, yet, your complaint in the post I provided *was* after they first started adding worthy linemen and wasn't about the rate at which we'd been adding players since four of the five current starters were *already on the roster* and you were still complaining. We had Smith, Leary, Free, and Frederick and you were arguing we'd added 'nothing substantial' to the position group that would merit optimism. If that was you not complaining after they'd added worthy OLs, then, yeah, I must have a comprehension problem. I often struggle with comprehending the incomprehensible.

As for my posts, go find them if you want to criticize them. I remember what I wrote, and for the most part, I was right on about the OL from the get-go. Even strolling through the thread I provided there's nothing there I would back down from. Pretty much I was dead on then, and it's been proven to be true, while you're on record complaining about the rebuild and about the Frederick addition after we'd added him just like I'd said, above.
 
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And, yet, your complaint in the post I provided *was* after they first started adding worthy linemen and wasn't about the rate at which we'd been adding players since four of the five current starters were *already on the roster* and you were still complaining. We had Smith, Leary, Free, and Frederick and you were arguing we'd added 'nothing substantial' to the position group that would merit optimism. If that was you not complaining after they'd added worthy OLs, then, yeah, I must have a comprehension problem. I often struggle with comprehending the incomprehensible.

As for my posts, go find them if you want to criticize them. I remember what I wrote, and for the most part, I was right on about the OL from the get-go. Even strolling through the thread I provided there's nothing there I would back down from. Pretty much I was dead on then, and it's been proven to be true, while you're on record complaining about the rebuild and about the Frederick addition after we'd added him just like I'd said, above.

pbbbbst, hog wash! that quote echoes directly to what I said earlier in the thread, consistent and true 2 years later! I often spoke about the "too slow", "incremental progress" and the need for urgency.

The only thing different this year is a rookie first round center,(that was the only OL change) nothing substantial that would warrant optimism given last year's disaster (2012 was a disaster, so was 2013),,, we're all hoping on our long shots to develop into something serviceable(Ron Leary and the rest, thank God for Leary), that's all. (pretty freaking spot on, I'm digging that you dug this up. Good job finding it, bad job understanding the concept. :cool:

EGG, Jun 14, 2013
http://cowboyszone.com/threads/my-p...ll-have-a-serviceable-ol.256938/#post-5100555
 

Idgit

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pbbbbst, hog wash! that quote echoes directly to what I said earlier in the thread, consistent and true 2 years later! I often spoke about the "too slow", "incremental progress" and the need for urgency.

The only thing different this year is a rookie first round center,(that was the only OL change) nothing substantial that would warrant optimism given last year's disaster (2012 was a disaster, so was 2013),,, we're all hoping on our long shots to develop into something serviceable(Ron Leary and the rest, thank God for Leary), that's all. (pretty freaking spot on, I'm digging that you dug this up. Good job finding it, bad job understanding the concept. :cool:

EGG, Jun 14, 2013
http://cowboyszone.com/threads/my-p...ll-have-a-serviceable-ol.256938/#post-5100555

Meh. This is boring. Your quotes are all there in the thread, I don't need to go round with you about what the meaning of words are. It's obvious to anybody who reads it.

You can't say that people weren't complaining about the OL during the rebuild when you were complaining the entire time and I can supply ready examples of you doing so. In the one post I provided, you clearly *were* complaining about the existing OL talent up to that point. An OL that included Travis Frederick and three other OL starters already on the roster. That, my friend, is about as far as you're going to get from 'spot on.' You were spot off.

This is not a comprehension error on my part. This is you complaining about the OL talent--still--more than four fifths of the way through the rebuild. Coach, LT, LG, C, RT and our current key interior backup were on the roster and you're saying we're hoping on longshots to avoid a repeat disaster. Meanwhile, we weren't.
 

DandyDon52

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I think that any time you end up with a QB drafted by Cleveland, you screwed the pooch. If there is any team that is truly gifted at either finding the wrong QB or ruining the guy once he gets there, it's the Browns. They are a QB kiss of death.

I wonder why they signed him to begin with?? waste of money and time.
Who coaches these guys up wade wilson?? lol I dont think he is capable of coaching up a qb to be good.
vaughn should be showing something by now?
 

robjay04

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I wonder why they signed him to begin with?? waste of money and time.
Who coaches these guys up wade wilson?? lol I dont think he is capable of coaching up a qb to be good.
vaughn should be showing something by now?


Not that I think Vaughn has a future here in Dallas but this is the second season for a UDFA. Romo would've surely been cut his second season if Quincy Carter didn't do what he did.
 
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