How’s this for a great secondary?

Hagman

Put Niland and Green in the ROH
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Yeah Cornell Green was an All-Western Athletic Conference Basketball Player. You know- the prototype for an NFL All Pro Safety! Lol! Green was a great athlete and one of many players Gil Brandt discovered in his HOF career as a player personnel director.
The guy played cornerback and made the Pro bowl multiple times at that position. Landry switched him to safety so that some guy named Mel Renfro could play corner instead. So of course Cornell Green also makes the pro bowl at safety. I very proudly have under my avatar that Cornell Green should be put in the Ring of honor Well and Jerry Jones should be butt kicked around AT&T Stadium for not putting him in there years ago But there’s only so much room to write stuff under the avatar. And I wanted to give John Niland a shout out as well.
 

JoeKing

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We talk quite a bit around here about how long we’ve needed some major help in the secondary. I’m old enough to remember what is easily the greatest secondary in Dallas Cowboys history. In fact, this group unbelievably included 3 NFL HOFers.

Between 1970-72, the Cowboys secondary was manned by HOF CBs Mel Renfro and Herb Adderly, and HOF Free Safety Cliff “Captain Crash” Harris, and 4 time All Pro SS Cornell Green, who should at the very least be in the ROH. (Green btw, never missed a single game for 13 straight seasons. One of the toughest Cowboys to ever wear the Star)

Those guys had a whopping 163 interceptions between them. Absolute greatness. Sometimes we forget how many absolutely great players this franchise has had.
I remember.
 

Bobhaze

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The guy played cornerback and made the Pro bowl multiple times at that position. Landry switched him to safety so that some guy named Mel Renfro could play corner instead. So of course Cornell Green also makes the pro bowl at safety. I very proudly have under my avatar that Cornell Green should be put in the Ring of honor Well and Jerry Jones should be butt kicked around AT&T Stadium for not putting him in there years ago But there’s only so much room to write stuff under the avatar. And I wanted to give John Niland a shout out as well.
It is interesting (and not a coincidence) to see the glory years of this franchise- both the 70s and 90s teams had great safeties. Green and Harris in the 70s, and Darren Woodson in the 90s.
 

Future

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All the absolutely great safeties that have played for this team over the decades. And been integral parts of the teams success.

and the current FO practically ignores the position.

it’s maddening
Because they don't matter. The ROI for safeties is never there, except for Tyrann Mathieu and, presumably, Minkah Fitzpatrick...but that's only because they can cover the slot.

You're way better off paying Kazee and, say, La'El Collins, than you are paying Anthony Harris.
 

Typhus

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All the absolutely great safeties that have played for this team over the decades. And been integral parts of the teams success.

and the current FO practically ignores the position.

it’s maddening
When you draft and pay #4 overall RBs 2nd contracts there will be a neglected position, but this FO has been neglecting S position long before drafting Zeke.
 

jazzcat22

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We talk quite a bit around here about how long we’ve needed some major help in the secondary. I’m old enough to remember what is easily the greatest secondary in Dallas Cowboys history. In fact, this group unbelievably included 3 NFL HOFers.

Between 1970-72, the Cowboys secondary was manned by HOF CBs Mel Renfro and Herb Adderly, and HOF Free Safety Cliff “Captain Crash” Harris, and 4 time All Pro SS Cornell Green, who should at the very least be in the ROH. (Green btw, never missed a single game for 13 straight seasons. One of the toughest Cowboys to ever wear the Star)

Those guys had a whopping 163 interceptions between them. Absolute greatness. Sometimes we forget how many absolutely great players this franchise has had.

Back in the day when they could actually hit a receiver and pound them into the ground. And no flags. Make them think twice before the run a route near them.
 

HungryLion

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Because they don't matter. The ROI for safeties is never there, except for Tyrann Mathieu and, presumably, Minkah Fitzpatrick...but that's only because they can cover the slot.

You're way better off paying Kazee and, say, La'El Collins, than you are paying Anthony Harris.


I disagree. I’m not saying to give a safety a massive contract. But you still need good safety play. Not the slop the cowboys have had for years now.
 

Future

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I disagree. I’m not saying to give a safety a massive contract. But you still need good safety play. Not the slop the cowboys have had for years now.
If you're not going to give a massive contract, you aren't going to get better than what Dallas has had.

People like to ignore the fact that Heath and Woods were average safeties and cost next to nothing on a top-10 defense.
 

Aerolithe_Lion

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If you're not going to give a massive contract, you aren't going to get better than what Dallas has had.

People like to ignore the fact that Heath and Woods were average safeties and cost next to nothing on a top-10 defense.

No one is ignoring that. Why accept an occasional top 10 will only ever be the ceiling for your defense because you’re intentionally neglecting that position?

And you can get much better play from coverage safety than Woods and Heath from a player that doesn’t cost top dollar. We won the Super Bowl in large part because we had an excellent coverage safety at a modest cost. Not because we got lucky, but because we continually looked to upgrade the position until we landed Jenkins
 

Future

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No one is ignoring that. Why accept an occasional top 10 will only ever be the ceiling for your defense because you’re intentionally neglecting that position?

And you can get much better play from coverage safety than Woods and Heath that doesn’t cost top dollar. We won the Super Bowl in large part because we had an excellent coverage safety at a modest cost.
The Patriots scored 33 points and threw for 500 yards lmao.

Safety play was entirely irrelevant, and that's the point.
 

Aerolithe_Lion

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The Patriots scored 33 points and threw for 500 yards lmao.

Safety play was entirely irrelevant, and that's the point.

No, we won because of Malcolm Jenkins.

It’s not a safeties’ responsibility to cover an entire field, you’re using hyperbole to downplay the value of the position.

Malcolm Jenkins had 1 specific job that super bowl: there were few players in the NFL better suited to cover Rob Gronkowski than 2017 Malcolm Jenkins. He was drafted as a first round slot CB but built himself into a SS’s body. He was exactly who you wanted on Gronk. And he never lined up on him the entire game.

In the third quarter, right out of halftime, Gronk went wild on us, I remember he caught every pass on that drive and scored the touchdown, he had a huge game. And even then, we refused to move Jenkins over to Gronk. And that’s why we won.

Because Tom Brady threw for 500 yards, he was hitting guys all over the field. But he also through some ducks, didn’t have a great completion % (58%), remember how sloppy their offense was in the first half. We were up 22-12 and it should have been at least 25-6 if not for the late fluke pick From Jeffery bobbling the ball. Tom was never allowed to throw the passes he wanted to throw, even when he was racking up yards. He had to dig for other openings on our D….

Flash back 1 year earlier, Patriots down 25-3 against the Falcons. How did they come back in that game? Was it a dominant Gronkowski? No, he didn’t even play. Was it repeated deep shots a la Fitzmagic? No, that’s never been Brady’s game. It was this: RB James White, 14 catches, 110 yards, 3 total TDs. A 14 catch RB. Vast majority of his yards in the second half and overtime. And then again, all year 2017 when they were behind, their offense was wheel routes, HB options, screen passes, check downs.

So when people think of the big reasons the Eagles won that game, they think of the Brandon Graham strip sack. They think of the Nick Foles deep ball marathon. They think of Zach Ertz catch at the end. Was it a catch or not?

but Malcolm Jenkins spent 48 minutes on the field in Super Bowl 52 holding James White to 21 yards. That is why we won. Yes we gave up 500 yards passing. Yes they scored 33 on us, most of any team that lost a SB. But If we didn’t have a coverage safety of his caliber, Patriots don’t stop at 33, their drives don’t continually drag to a halt in the first half… they get to play their game plan and we likely get blown out.

Malcolm Jenkins won us that super bowl more so than any other player (maybe anyone other than Saint Nick anyway)
 
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Future

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No, we won because of Malcolm Jenkins.

It’s not a safeties’ responsibility to cover an entire field, you’re using hyperbole to downplay the value of the position.

Malcolm Jenkins had 1 specific job that super bowl: there were few players in the NFL better suited to cover Rob Gronkowski than 2017 Malcolm Jenkins. He was drafted as a first round slot CB but built himself into a SS’s body. He was exactly who you wanted on Gronk. And he never lined up on him the entire game.

In the third quarter, right out of halftime, Gronk went wild on us, I remember he caught every pass on that drive and scored the touchdown, he had a huge game. And even then, we refused to move Jenkins over to Gronk. And that’s why we won.

Because Tom Brady threw for 500 yards, he was hitting guys all over the field. But he also through some ducks, didn’t have a great completion % (58%), remember how sloppy their offense was in the first half. We were up 22-12 and it should have been at least 25-6 if not for the late fluke pick From Jeffery bobbling the ball. Tom was never allowed to throw the passes he wanted to throw, even when he was racking up yards. He had to dig for other openings on our D….

Flash back 1 year earlier, Patriots down 25-3 against the Falcons. How did they come back in that game? Was it a dominant Gronkowski? No, he didn’t even play. Was it repeated deep shots a la Fitzmagic? No, that’s never been Brady’s game. It was this: RB James White, 14 catches, 110 yards, 3 total TDs. A 14 catch RB. Vast majority of his yards in the second half and overtime. And then again, all year 2017 when they were behind, their offense was wheel routes, HB options, screen passes, check downs.

So when people think of the big reasons the Eagles won that game, they think of the Brandon Graham strip sack. They think of the Nick Foles deep ball marathon. They think of Zach Ertz catch at the end. Was it a catch or not?

but Malcolm Jenkins spent 48 minutes on the field in Super Bowl 52 holding James White to 21 yards. That is why we won. Yes we gave up 500 yards passing. Yes they scored 33 on us, most of any team that lost a SB. But If we didn’t have a coverage safety of his caliber, Patriots don’t stop at 33, their drives don’t continually drag to a halt in the first half… they get to play their game plan and we likely get blown out.

Malcolm Jenkins won us that super bowl as much as any other player (maybe anyone other than Saint Nick anyway)
If you give up 33 points and 500 yards passing, your pass defense was bad. I don't care how many lines you put here. The defense didn't win the game.
 

Aerolithe_Lion

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If you give up 33 points and 500 yards passing, your pass defense was bad. I don't care how many lines you put here. The defense didn't win the game.

Thats very absolutist, and the nfl has always been far more nuanced than such a statement
 

Future

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Thats very absolutist, and the nfl has always been far more nuanced than such a statement
Not in this context. Your secondary didn't play well if you gave up 500 yards passing and 33 points. That is very absolute.
 

Aerolithe_Lion

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Not in this context. Your secondary didn't play well if you gave up 500 yards passing and 33 points. That is very absolute.

I have a great response to that, but it suddenly occurs to me that you don’t care how many lines I put here
 

Scotman

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We talk quite a bit around here about how long we’ve needed some major help in the secondary. I’m old enough to remember what is easily the greatest secondary in Dallas Cowboys history. In fact, this group unbelievably included 3 NFL HOFers.

Between 1970-72, the Cowboys secondary was manned by HOF CBs Mel Renfro and Herb Adderly, and HOF Free Safety Cliff “Captain Crash” Harris, and 4 time All Pro SS Cornell Green, who should at the very least be in the ROH. (Green btw, never missed a single game for 13 straight seasons. One of the toughest Cowboys to ever wear the Star)

Those guys had a whopping 163 interceptions between them. Absolute greatness. Sometimes we forget how many absolutely great players this franchise has had.
For anyone who never saw them together, they will never understand.
 

Scotman

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one of my favorite secondaries in our history...
'83
CB Everson Walls
S Michael Downs
S Dexter Clinkscale
CB Dennis Thurman

another favorite...'86
CB Everson Walls
S Michael Downs
S Bill Bates
CB Ron Fellows
Virtually any secondary with Everson Walls has to rank near the top. Perhaps the best rookie season ever
 

Redball Express

All Aboard!!!
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We talk quite a bit around here about how long we’ve needed some major help in the secondary. I’m old enough to remember what is easily the greatest secondary in Dallas Cowboys history. In fact, this group unbelievably included 3 NFL HOFers.

Between 1970-72, the Cowboys secondary was manned by HOF CBs Mel Renfro and Herb Adderly, and HOF Free Safety Cliff “Captain Crash” Harris, and 4 time All Pro SS Cornell Green, who should at the very least be in the ROH. (Green btw, never missed a single game for 13 straight seasons. One of the toughest Cowboys to ever wear the Star)

Those guys had a whopping 163 interceptions between them. Absolute greatness. Sometimes we forget how many absolutely great players this franchise has had.
Greene was my fav defender except for Lilly back in those days. Yes..more accolades.
 
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