How do we motivate Roy Williams? Demote him like Crayton?

[ABQCOWBOY]

I ask again - for the 49 points he has scored, how many points has he cost us by stalling drives?

I ask again, how many points has he helped us with by drawing coverage?

 

[tomson75]

More evidence that I am the most ignored poster on this board!

:laugh2:

Not at all, I'm just one of the laziest! See my post in the Giants' stadium thread.

 

[Crown Royal]

I ask again, how many points has he helped us with by drawing coverage?

Does he really draw more coverage than any other WR would? It seems to me that he really doesn't get a lot of doubles. Last night's TD he was either single covered and ran into a zone defender, or it was pure zone coverage.

 

[TwoDeep3]

That was your point? That fans aren't contributing anything? Stop the ****ing presses people!!

I don't recall anyone saying anything to the contrary, but what I do see, is fans (you) making excuses for the inexcusable. I see you offering some sort of lame *** insult to myself and others as to whether or not we could do his job.

I offer you this: Who the **** cares if I could do it? I'm not getting paid to. Capisce?

You mentioning the fans is about as irrelevant to this topic as whether or not you use Pert plus to get rid of your dandruff.

Your first post on this topic was dead on, since then....not so much.

....and if you really care to know how big a pair I have, then PM me. Keep your BS off of the forum.

So this is your forum huh? You decide who posts what.

I had no idea. It seems to be run so smoothly that one would never know there is an internet tough guy behind this spot.

Now if The View could just tee up a segment on their next telecast on this subject, I bet they could get Rosie O'Donnell to came back to the show.

The point is - and one that seems to have been lost on you - stop me if I am typing too fast - is fans think with emotions and don't consider everything in the equation.

Most fans in this thread have taken a posture that Williams doesn't care, he is not contrite with his comments after mistakes, and that he is a POS.

This is the same mindset of fans back in the day when discussing Jackie Smith.

But a little known story that Charlie Waters told once sheds a great deal of light on the subject.

The Cowboys were going through the motions when Smith joined the team. They just knew they were going to the play-offs because they did the year before. But they were in a slump.

Smith stood up in a players only meeting and told them they weren't working hard enough and were arrogant and would miss the play-offs if they didn't stop horsing around.

He said he came from a franchise that worked hard and won little so he didn't understand how these guys could take all this for granted.

It hit home with the team and they did not lose again until that Super Bowl.

So the guy that was the goat was also the guy that stepped up and said the right things to get people focused.

But because of that catch he was slandered for years and years.

Same with Switzer and the 4th and 1.

Emmitt was being interviewed on some TV show once and the talking head was making fun of Barry. This was long after Switzer was gone.

Emmitt told the guy to hold up. He said in the locker room after the game Barry told the team he made that call because he believed in them so much. That he would do it again because he thought they were the best team in the league.

Emmitt went on to say the results, the game, and Barry taking all the blame galvanized the team and they won out taking their third title.

So there are things behind the scenes that fans do not know about. And yet most fans pop off like they do.

They make emotional statements like they have inside information when all they are doing is whining about results they don't agree with.

Same thing happened the first two years of Aikman. Think anyone still says that now?

One last point, puppy.

After a tour in Viet Nam, guys like you really scare me. No, I mean it.

You really frighten me.

 

[tomson75]

I ask again, how many points has he helped us with by drawing coverage?

Are you suggesting he's been drawing more coverage than Austin? Than Witten?

I certainly don't think that he's drawing more coverage than any other #2 WR. Not against an offense with Austin and Witten.

Hard to be sure though.

 

[Crown Royal]

Are you suggesting he's been drawing more coverage than Austin? Than Witten?

I certainly don't think that he's drawing more coverage than any other #2 WR. Not against an offense with Austin and Witten.

Hard to be sure though.

Again, this is speculative because I don't have the ability to rewatch any games, but I wonder how many of those 7 TDs are the result of Williams benefiting from protection sliding to Austin.

I didn't say witten. I don't know why, but I can't figure out why he has not been a redzone threat at all this year.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Does he really draw more coverage than any other WR would? It seems to me that he really doesn't get a lot of doubles. Last night's TD he was either single covered and ran into a zone defender, or it was pure zone coverage.

The DB covering Roy is almost never man to man with him all over the field. Most teams always shade the Safety and give help over the top. If you take Roy out of the offense, then what you see is much more man or matchup and much more help given against Witten and or Austin. You can't leave Roy alone because while he does drop a lot of balls he should catch, he also represents a threat to score if you don't give help over the top. The fact that he's so much bigger then most DBs forces safety help deep on many occasions. I have no problem with anybody calling Roy out on his drops because he is dropping too many easy balls but you have to see the big picture here. Roy is allowing for other receivers to see much more friendly coverages just because of the threat he represents.

 

[tomson75]

So this is your forum huh? You decide who posts what.

I had no idea. It seems to be run so smoothly that one would never know there is an internet tough guy behind this spot.

Now if The View could just tee up a segment on their next telecast on this subject, I bet they could get Rosie O'Donnell to came back to the show.

The point is - and one that seems to have been lost on you - stop me if I am typing too fast - is fans think with emotions and don't consider everything in the equation.

Most fans in this thread have taken a posture that Williams doesn't care, he is not contrite with his comments after mistakes, and that he is a POS.

This is the same mindset of fans back in the day when discussing Jackie Smith.

But a little known story that Charlie Waters told once sheds a great deal of light on the subject.

The Cowboys were going through the motions when Smith joined the team. They just knew they were going to the play-offs because they did the year before. But they were in a slump.

Smith stood up in a players only meeting and told them they weren't working hard enough and were arrogant and would miss the play-offs if they didn't stop horsing around.

He said he came from a franchise that worked hard and won little so he didn't understand how these guys could take all this for granted.

It hit home with the team and they did not lose again until that Super Bowl.

So the guy that was the goat was also the guy that stepped up and said the right things to get people focused.

But because of that catch he was slandered for years and years.

Same with Switzer and the 4th and 1.

Emmitt was being interviewed on some TV show once and the talking head was making fun of Barry. This was long after Switzer was gone.

Emmitt told the guy to hold up. He said in the locker room after the game Barry told the team he made that call because he believed in them so much. That he would do it again because he thought they were the best team in the league.

Emmitt went on to say the results, the game, and Barry taking all the blame galvanized the team and they won out taking their third title.

So there are things behind the scenes that fans do not know about. And yet most fans pop off like they do.

They make emotional statements like they have inside information when all they are doing is whining about results they don't agree with.

Same thing happened the first two years of Aikman. Think anyone still says that now?

One last point, puppy.

After a tour in Viet Nam, guys like you really scare me. No, I mean it.

You really frighten me.

I see you still can't provide any valuable insight further than your first post, and have resorted to further name calling. Good for you. Looks like you've become your own example.

I made no attempt to "scare you", I even suggested that we take it up in PM's whether or not you cared to know if I had the balls to back up my mouth....but you've clearly shown how your tour in Southeast Asia has made you a hardened man to the rest of the forum, so I won't dare bother you anymore. How did Bob Hope like his coffee, anyway? Were those USO chicks super hot, or what?



Semper Fi.

 

[JBond]

We seem to be big on billboards around here. Lets get a billboard with pictures of his worst drops when he does not even bother to look the ball into his hands. We could put it on the road he uses to get to the Stadium.

If that does not work, trade him to Buffalo.

 

[Nexx]

I would not mind seeing Ogletree or Hurd getting a bit more playing time but I don't think the staff is going to throw up their hands and give up on RW. I highly doubt they are looking to bench him.

lol hurd but yeah otree i want to see more of him.

 

[CATCH17]

Excellent post.

...but lets not forget that Ogletree is not our only option here. We don't lose any veteran knowledge by inserting Crayton back in at number two, and Crayton, as far as I'm concerned has proven he's a far more dependable outlet for Tony Romo. Williams isn't doing his job. I can't even fathom how anyone can argue that point. Give it to someone else until Williams can earn it back.

Garret can target the things Williams does well with him in three receiver sets.

I still like Williams better on the outside than I do Crayton.

To me the simple solution is to rotate guys.

We have a great cast of receivers who can all do their own thing. The more guys we run in and out the more dynamic we become.

 

[Crown Royal]

I agree with this. Crayton does best in the slot. Keep him there.

 

[Zman5]

He can start but rotate him with others(Crayton,Hurd, OTree) until we get into the redzone. Have him in every play in the redzone as a decoy or a target.

 

[Vintage]

We seem to be big on billboards around here. Lets get a billboard with pictures of his worst drops when he does not even bother to look the ball into his hands. We could put it on the road he uses to get to the Stadium.

If that does not work, trade him to Buffalo.

The Magic Billboard Theory, eh?

I like this. A lot.

 

[JBond]

The difference between Miles and Williams is that Austin more than makes up for his drops (he also had a drop or 3 in the KC game). Austin doesn't actually always make the catch, but at least he makes up for them. Williams, quite frankly, does not.

Guess you missed that TD catch in the first quarter. You really need to see that play. It was a thing of beauty. Not happy about all the balls he drops that hit him in the hands either, but at least be rational about the bashing.

 

[Crown Royal]

Guess you missed that TD catch in the first quarter. You really need to see that play. It was a thing of beauty. Not happy about all the balls he drops that hit him in the hands either, but at least be rational about the bashing.

Good catch, better throw. And I would be far more forgiving if that one play was indicative of his season as a whole.

That catch/td simply does not nullify the drops.

 

[TwoCentPlain]

Start Ogletree.

It doesn't get any easier than that. I have been screaming for Ogletree to get more playing time since camp ended. I'm done with asking for more playing time for Ogletree.

Just start him opposite Austin. Ogletree is much better than Williams.

Roy Williams isn't as good as TO. But, at least he isn't a lockeroom problem, either.

 

[Cover 2]

True, but if you can make the point to Jerry Jones, by telling him, look at what happened to Crayton when you demoted him. Crayton stepped up big time.

So, wouldnt it make sense Jerry Jones to push Roy W that way?

Not everyone is the same though. I think Roy is so mentally fragile it would make him start to sulk.

His production is so low right now though, that I don't think you would see a dip in his play.

 

[GOLDENCHILD1688]

Here's the problem with demoting Roy Williams. Who plays in his place?

Now the hue and cry will say Ogletree. But this kid has six catches and is not ready.

How do I know. The coaches who watch the kid in practice all week think so or they would give him more time in the game.

Now finding out what Ogletree can do well, and working him in for four or five plays to put him in a position to succeed is a good idea.

But sending Williams to the bench and starting Ogletree also takes on the rookie mistakes he will surely make. Because this is a different game than one he has played in the past.

And there are things skilled professionals - the vets in the league - will do to confuse him.

Ogletree is the grapes on the vine waiting to ripen and be picked.

As Orson Welles said, "We will sell no wine before it's time."

Now to Williams.

Garrett needs to target things he does well and put him in a position to succeed. That is what coaching is all about.

Go back to the routes he runs well, then exploit those. Get his sea legs under him again.

Build his confidence.

What fans think is unimportant.

im not saying i want roy benched just yet

but your making points saying who else is there to start in his place and naming an undrafted rookie as the only option.

we do have crayton. we also have hurd like austin who has flashed potential but never really got a lot of playing time or multiple chances to start.

not saying to bench roy. but we do have options. if anything i would rather see a rotation then see roy fully benched.

hurd and crayton could replace his production with the way he has played. even with what ive seen from tree, i would say he to could give us what roy has which isnt saying much. hurd has made plays when his number has been called and been here for years. he knows the system. if we did rotate them i would rather roy of course in goal line situations. hes been solid in that spot so far

 

[the truth of it all]

make him catch 500 balls a day. mostly from back up qbs and machine. But get him in there with romo for 30 or so. Idk what it takes for this guy. against newman something. He is really disappointing me.. Like his td catch should be regular. That should be regular not ooo wowo he did something!