How Far Behind NY & WASH. are we really?

Chuck 54

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And how long will it really take to catch them?

At QB, Brunnell is no older than Bledsoe and is more mobile, while garnering a higher QB rating for the season...then they have 2 #1 picks behind him.
Eli Manning is young with tons of upside, a guy who will improve every year.
We have Bledsoe, who is great when protected but has no mobility and lost more fumbles than anyone in the NFL this year...behind him we have 2 undrafted QBs who don't seem to have much going for them.

AT RB, we are young and have versatility in JJ and Barber, but....
Wash. has Clinton Portis, a tough pro bowler who's very young.
NY has an older Tiki Barber, but he had his best year this season and some consider him in the running for MVP.

AT WR, Washington has a young Santana Moss at the ProBowl, with other youngsters developing.
NY has Plaxico, who is a probowler entering his prime, complimented by Toomer.
We have nice players in Glenn and Keyshaun, but they are getting older and nearing the end...Crayton has struggled as 3rd WR most of season because Parcells says he's not a natural guy...that he needs to work every day to get to a good level....this guy is unlikely to ever be a #1 WR and we have no youth on the team other than him.

TE....apples and oranges, but while we homers may think Witten is the best in our division, NY and Wash. aren't crying over Shockey and Cooley who are both also young and productive.

OL....I won't insult your intelligence with any comparisons...we stink, and it can't be fixed in one year....the best linemen we have are an aging LA and an injured Adams...we don't have 1 single young up and comer to be excited about, only guys like Johnson and Gurode (too small & weak or too dumb) and Tucker and Pettitti (undrafted and drafted at the end...serious lack of ability)....and who's behind them? We can only hope to have a better OL next year, but it's highly unlikely Adams will be ready for the start of the season, and you can't replace the entire line and bring in good backups in one year...this is a long term serious shortcoming...we can improve and get better, but it will take years to get our OL equal to NY and WAsh.

And we didn't even talk about Philly who still has McNabb, Westbrook, a young developing WR, good TEs, and an excellent OL when healthy...and Ryan Moats showed something at RB.

Defense?

We CBs who can play with any when healthy, but our secondary still gets killed in big games because we have a serious deficiency at FS and no one to take it over....yet. Beriault and Davis both seem like they could be very good SS's, but that's Roy's spot. Add a legit FS and our secondary is set and in their primes.

DL: Solid up and comers in Canty and Spears, hopefuls in Ratliff and Johnson, but are we a 3-4 or 4-3? Is Ware a DE or a LB? And are Canty and Spears suited to be any better than the Wiley's and Ekubans of the world if they have to play DE in the 4-3? What will we do with Ellis and Glover?

Certainly no one would say we're at the NY level on DL...they have two probowlers at DE who manhandle OTs every week and pummel QBs...we're not there yet, but at least we have young guys who can get there.

We're better than Washington on the DL and better than Philly.

LB: We're worse than Washington....Arrington or Washington would be toasts of the town in Dallas...Brady looks to be the only real LB at this time, but we can still hope in Burnett. Guys like Fowler, Shanlee and Fujita are what they are, and it's just not very impressive. Ware is looking like he can become a beast at pass rushing, but he can't really be viewed as a LB.

When you run the 4-3, your DL can dominate and help you get by with average LBs, but in the 3-4, most people don't even know who the DLmen are....the LBs are the studs making all the big plays. In Dallas, our DL are the guys we watch...our LBs aren't even close to being noticed...we need big time help there. I'd love to see Burnett step up and push Fajita to special teams next year and play opposite Ware....but we need to find a stud/heat seeking missile to play beside Brady. Brady has been a pleasant surprise, but let's face it, when he's your best LB, you're in trouble at the position.

So....our team in younger and better at some positions than last year, and with some improvements, we can compete. But just how far behind NY and Wash. are we really?

In my opinion, we need FS, ILB, future #1 WR, a future QB with some mobility, depth at TE, and 2-3 years of serious attention and luck to rebuild our OL. It won't take 2-3 years to improve our OL and be competitive, but we're years and considerable investment from ever becoming a dominant OL again. By the time we are approaching that status, LA will be retiring.
 

lspain1

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wayne_motley said:
[In my opinion, we need FS, ILB, future #1 WR, a future QB with some mobility, depth at TE, and 2-3 years of serious attention and luck to rebuild our OL. It won't take 2-3 years to improve our OL and be competitive, but we're years and considerable investment from ever becoming a dominant OL again. By the time we are approaching that status, LA will be retiring.

Wow Wayne, I hope you're wrong about our short term prospects. I want the team to make a run at it next year. It might be optimistic, but the choices must be based upon whether we can compete next year for a deep playoff run (as an aside, making the playoffs this year with our team in its current depleted state would have been a cameo appearance at best). Overall, I like your list of needs but I'm hoping the OL can recover enough for a year or two with minor tweaks and we can build for the future over time we've bought. QB is always controversial, but with a win now approach, I would put this off for at least one more year.
 

burmafrd

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Brunnel is fragile and is just a matter of time. Ramsey and Campbell do not look any more promising then Henson and Roma- Ramsay was but there is no way he will ever trust Gibbs again and that hurts. Manning does not impress me- I do not think that his accuracy will get any better and that will always be his weakness.

RB- Tiki was great but how many more years does he have. Portis is very good and solid. We have more depth then anyone else and JJ can be a great one if he gets some decent blocking.

WR: Key and Glenn have a couple of seasons left. Crayton showed some. I think we have a very solid WR corps. I do not see anyone in the division that is as good.

TE: Witten needs to work on his blocking more but he is the best overall. Campbell- he lost a step- we have to see if it was the injury or age.

FB: we had one in name only and that weakness hurt the running game this year.

O Line: we all know that a lot of work needs to be done there. BP said that Flo is ahead of schedule so he should be back. We can get one more year at least out of LA but we need to get his replacement on the team and learning. Center: AL Johnson is just not strong enough and Gurode is not mentally strong enough so we need a new starter. RIvera- wew need to find out if it was his back that bothered him all season long and if it will get better; if not he needs to go. Tucker is a back up and that is all he will ever be. Pettiti- I don't know. Hard to figure if he has the actual physical ability to do the job- tough evaluation there. Peterman has shown nothing. Columbo may be something but who knows.

D Line. we are in good shape depending of if Ellis and Glover come back. We will get Ratlief back as well so no problems there. LB: depth and talent both needed. James and Ware are our only real standouts. CB= we are fine as well at SS. FS is a hole that must be filled.

AND A REAL KICKER!!!!

The Giants have some problems on the O line that will get worse so they have to do something there, as well as there secondary. The SKins have some problems as well in the secondary and age is catching up on their O line.
Talent wise we are in the ball park NOW.
 

lspain1

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burmafrd said:
The Giants have some problems on the O line that will get worse so they have to do something there, as well as there secondary. The SKins have some problems as well in the secondary and age is catching up on their O line.
Talent wise we are in the ball park NOW.

The Giants O-Line I've seen this season looked pretty good to me even when they had to shuffle players.
 

burmafrd

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Take a closer look at the Giants O line; they are probably about one year behind the problems we had this year.
 

Dough Boy

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wayne_motley said:
And how long will it really take to catch them?



AT RB, we are young and have versatility in JJ and Barber, but....
NY has an older Tiki Barber, but he had his best year this season and some consider him in the running for MVP.

AT WR, Washington has a young Santana Moss at the ProBowl, with other youngsters developing.
NY has Plaxico, who is a probowler entering his prime, complimented by Toomer.
We have nice players in Glenn and Keyshaun, but they are getting older and nearing the end...

Tiki is an older RB. Just hit the magical 30 number - but you give high marks. Glenn just had his best season - but you give him low marks. History has shown that WR is a position you can play at a high level after the age of 30. Not the same can be said for RB.
 

JohnsKey19

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I dont think we're behind at all. We're right there. It's not like we finished 3-4 games behind them. The only major difference with those 2 teams and the Cowboys is the consistency in the O-Line. Those teams for the most part did a good job protecting the QB and did a much better job at opening holes for the running game. We simply cant play Parcells type ball with a subpar OLine. It killed us all year, especially when Flozell got injured.
 

dcjules

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Sign Terrell Owens....we then have the best WR in the game (on the field)....which makes our run game and OL all of a sudden become better....

I am tired about Santana Moss and Plaxico....they arent that great.....had great years, but I dont view either as elite WR's....good players, thats all...

Manning is the only player in that Division who can hurt us long haul, he appears to be a franchise guy, 10 year player.....McNabb had his time and will be a good player for years to come, but with TO, he comes back to earth.....Talent wise all of the NFC has its strenghts and weaknesses, its who addresses then first.....

Interesting point made yesterday regarding Greg Williams, how much HE has done in DC.....if he leaves, which seems likely, what impact does that have....lots of things will change, players and coaches....woud it be shocking to have the Eagles and Dallas back next year, SKins and NYG out.....nope.....
 

Zaxor

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You left me little to argue with...

If I was the NYG I would focus on getting RB an WR...than some defensive help and they should be fine for years too come...

The WaRe will probably look WR and then get some D-lineman and they should be okay for awhile...

The Eagles need to get a power back and some d-line help and they should be fine...

It is good to see the division doing well...
 

burmafrd

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Get off the TO crap. Cancer is something you NEVER want near you.
 

Zman5

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wayne_motley said:
And how long will it really take to catch them?

At QB, Brunnell is no older than Bledsoe and is more mobile, while garnering a higher QB rating for the season...then they have 2 #1 picks behind him.

Ramsey is not going to be there next season and local media have had doubts about Cambell due to his slow developement.


AT WR, Washington has a young Santana Moss at the ProBowl, with other youngsters developing.
What other youngsters? Taylor Jacobs? He sucks. Ask any Deadskins fan and they'll tell you the same. He's no better than Copper. In fact, I would wrather have Copper since he can play ST and is pretty good at it. Besides Moss, Washington doesn't have any other WR that is worth mentioning.
 

sago1

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Disagree with you WR evaluation. We must add another WR who oponents fear & who can help Glenn stretch the field. Glenn also just finished first year in long time when he didn't get hurt; any bets whether that happens again. Maybe Bledsoe won't hold ball so long if he had 2 WRs who can get some separation. Crayton must get more playing time at WR & Keyshawn has to accept less playing time or our WR core won't take us any where. Don't kid me that you wouldn't take Santana Moss if we could get him or another like him.
 

Alweezy

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At this point I wouldn't mind Dallas going after Owens... this team is in need of something on offense. Yes the O-line needs to be fixed blah blah...

Can a team co-exist with Keyshawn and Owens both begging for the ball though?
 

DaBoyz73

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Alweezy said:
At this point I wouldn't mind Dallas going after Owens... this team is in need of something on offense. Yes the O-line needs to be fixed blah blah...

Can a team co-exist with Keyshawn and Owens both begging for the ball though?

If we signed TO I could see us letting Keyshawn go.
 

TheSkaven

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Alweezy said:
At this point I wouldn't mind Dallas going after Owens... this team is in need of something on offense. Yes the O-line needs to be fixed blah blah...

Can a team co-exist with Keyshawn and Owens both begging for the ball though?
I was initially against the move, but I'm starting to warm up to it. We have the perfect GM and coach to handle him, a strong armed QB, complimentary receivers and a tight end, could be a perfect situation.

As to the original question, we've played an entire season and I have no idea how good this team is. Are they one player (a FG kicker) away from 13-3? Or are they a few lucky breaks away from 6-10? I simply have no idea.

What I do know is this team needs to upgrade the o-line in a significant way this off-season.
 

Alweezy

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That dog doesn't hunt anymore...


WE went and got KJ after everyone cried and moaned about how much of a cancer he would be to our team. He comes to Dallas and haven't heard one thing from him. And that can all be because he plays for a coach that he respects, and who respects him back.

That's why Parcells coming back is key, his respect factor is so high, I think even T.O. would know who cooks the eggs in the kitchen. If he don't like the eggs he won't eat.
 

Chuck 54

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Dough Boy said:
Tiki is an older RB. Just hit the magical 30 number - but you give high marks. Glenn just had his best season - but you give him low marks. History has shown that WR is a position you can play at a high level after the age of 30. Not the same can be said for RB.
OH no...I don't give Glenn low marks at all...he's our best WR and could start for every other team in the division...paired with Moss or Plaxico, he'd still be awesome. But Tiki is going to the probowl and had arguably a better year than emmitt smith every had in dallas this year....even if he's older, he'll still be lighting it up when it's time for us to look for another QB and WR...that's all.
 

Chuck 54

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dcjules said:
Sign Terrell Owens....we then have the best WR in the game (on the field)....which makes our run game and OL all of a sudden become better....

I am tired about Santana Moss and Plaxico....they arent that great.....had great years, but I dont view either as elite WR's....good players, thats all...

Manning is the only player in that Division who can hurt us long haul, he appears to be a franchise guy, 10 year player.....McNabb had his time and will be a good player for years to come, but with TO, he comes back to earth.....Talent wise all of the NFC has its strenghts and weaknesses, its who addresses then first.....

Interesting point made yesterday regarding Greg Williams, how much HE has done in DC.....if he leaves, which seems likely, what impact does that have....lots of things will change, players and coaches....woud it be shocking to have the Eagles and Dallas back next year, SKins and NYG out.....nope.....
If Moss and Plaxico aren't elite WRs, then what the heck are Glenn and Keyshaun?
 

EndGame

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One quick point -- Brunnel is OLDER than Bledsoe, and he's more prone to injuries. He might have another season in him, or he might not. No way of knowing.
 
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