How Much of an Upgrade are McCoy/Poe?

[buybuydandavis]

“Both Gerald McCoy and Dontari Poe received much higher grades than the 2019 Cowboys’ starters, according to PFF. McCoy beat out Maliek Collins with 72.0 versus Collins’ 65.7. Poe’s 71.2 overall grade blew Antwaun Woods’ 56.9 out of the water. The real difference was in run defense where the duo of Collins-Woods averaged a 61.2, while McCoy-Poe averaged 73.6. The Cowboys new coaching staff has committed to fixing the run defense, which is line one in Defensive Football 101. Without question, the Cowboys have improved their defensive tackle situation with the signings of McCoy and Poe.”
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McCoy and Poe old and getting worse, Collins and Woods young and getting better. Also, Woods is cheap.

PFF's overall score doesn't fit how Woods is used. He's avoided on passing downs because he has no rush. I expect his run defense score, how he is actually used, is significantly higher than 57.

In looking at how we've improved, or not, you have to factor in Bennett at 65.7.

We're better against the run and worse against the pass. As the article suggests, we're focusing on beefing up the run defense.

I'm not ready to count on Crawford doing anything for us this year. If you think he is, you can pencil him in as replacing Bennett, and giving us *one more* DT than we had last year, thereby improving the rotation.

Even considering McCoy and Collins as a wash, the real improvement is Poe for *Covington*. That's the difference. We're not losing Woods, we're losing Covington (presumably).

 

[buybuydandavis]

Poe is the clear upgrade. It's debatable whether McCoy is an upgrade over Collins this year. He's been better over his career but whether he will be in 2020 I don't know.

It will help both those guys to play with Dorance Armstrong though.

Also, the proper comparison to Poe is Covington, not Woods, who isn't going anywhere.

 

[buybuydandavis]

So about Trysten Hill.....

Hill should be better, maybe a lot better with a new coaching staff that hasn't written him off like Hot and Cold Marinelli.

 

[JoeyBoy718]

Worst case, Poe can take over for Travis Frederick.

 

[ultron]

Baffles me that we finally go get proven players with size at DT and people feel that we didn’t upgrade. These are names that get thrown out on this forum all the time for the team to get lol, these aren’t randoms

https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/pla...t-investment-for-improving-dallas-run-defense

“Both Gerald McCoy and Dontari Poe received much higher grades than the 2019 Cowboys’ starters, according to PFF. McCoy beat out Maliek Collins with 72.0 versus Collins’ 65.7. Poe’s 71.2 overall grade blew Antwaun Woods’ 56.9 out of the water. The real difference was in run defense where the duo of Collins-Woods averaged a 61.2, while McCoy-Poe averaged 73.6. The Cowboys new coaching staff has committed to fixing the run defense, which is line one in Defensive Football 101. Without question, the Cowboys have improved their defensive tackle situation with the signings of McCoy and Poe.”

PFF isn’t everything, but I challenge any of y’all to get substantive analysis that shows Collins/Woods were better overall players. The film, analytics, and statistics from their careers as well as last years don’t lie.

The argument that last years Panthers Defense performed poorly thus McCoy/Poe can’t play is shallow. Not only did they play a scheme that doesn’t fit their skills (3/4) and have to deal with multiple injuries across the front (Poe’s absence resulted in 50ypg increase rushing). But this was arguably one of the worst years in the recent history of the Carolina Panthers, as they fired their coach mid-season and basically tanked. This has a huuuge impact on the end of year stats. I’m not going to overrule multiple years of good film on both these guys for one bad team statistical season when a generally stable organization undergoes a complete overhaul.

I bet if we had signed McCoy and another of those 4 reported 1T’s there would be no issue. Poe and another well-regraded 3T would’ve been just fine. But don’t let them sign together now we have an issue lol

Get hype, we finally have 2 legit DT’s. A common theme for all Super Bowl teams.

Where did you get your PFF run D grades from? I’m seeing 77.1 for McCoy and 53 for Collins (not 72 and 65). Massive difference!

 

[817Gill]

McCoy and Poe old and getting worse, Collins and Woods young and getting better. Also, Woods is cheap.

PFF's overall score doesn't fit how Woods is used. He's avoided on passing downs because he has no rush. I expect his run defense score, how he is actually used, is significantly higher than 57.

In looking at how we've improved, or not, you have to factor in Bennett at 65.7.

We're better against the run and worse against the pass. As the article suggests, we're focusing on beefing up the run defense.

I'm not ready to count on Crawford doing anything for us this year. If you think he is, you can pencil him in as replacing Bennett, and giving us *one more* DT than we had last year, thereby improving the rotation.

Even considering McCoy and Collins as a wash, the real improvement is Poe for *Covington*. That's the difference. We're not losing Woods, we're losing Covington (presumably).

Maliek Collins hasn’t improved since his rookie year lol there probably won’t be a significant step for him, maybe an incremental one. The only thing he does better than McCoy is pressures, not sacks, but pressures. McCoy has higher sack numbers every year, is a better run defender, and is going to move the pocket. How many times did we QB’s step up into the pocket with ease last few years?

If Woods is used only on run downs, wouldn’t his run score be extremely indicative of his performance in the run game lol? He was in and out of the lineup last year and we have him back this year as depth, so I’m not saying I don’t like him to an extent, but he’s doesn’t have the size or talent to be a forceful player in this league.

Bringing up Bennett is silly to me, as he was part of half the season and committed a penalty every game. Losing him is addition by subtraction, dude sat on his own half the time.

 

[817Gill]

Where did you get your PFF run D grades from? I’m seeing 77.1 for McCoy and 53 for Collins (not 72 and 65). Massive difference!

Quoting the article my guy, even better for the point we are making though lol

 

[Idgit]

PFF grades are useless for this. I think we got slightly better at DT. Losing Bennett and Collins for McCoy and Poe. Crawford back will help a lot too. We’re weaker at end, though, assuming Gregory even gets back. So overall we basically maintained if we don’t add a DE who can actually rush or someone doesn’t step up a lot.

 

[817Gill]

These are the kinds of guys many fans have been clamoring for, and for some fans, the specific guys they wanted. Now that we have them they are suddenly too old and/or are no longer effective.

The reality is we cannot fill a team with nothing but stars in the prime of their careers. And that isn't a Cowboy thing, that applies to every NFL team. Sure it would be nice to have McCoy and Poe from 3-4 years ago, but if we expect everything to be perfect at all times we will always be upset. Reality doesn't work like that.

 

[ultron]

Quoting the article my guy, even better for the point we are making though lol

Interesting, I wonder which one is correct? Nevertheless, I love the addition of Poe and McCoy- I really think it’ll help the DEs and LBs a lot!

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Yeah this isn't how it works..run defense isn't the job of 2 people. That's just ignorant

yeah, but they are part of it, specially the two in the middle. again, just because its names you have heard of and your dislike for players that were here doesn't automatically make these guys a better option....its not a slam dunk...I will wait and evaluate based on performance and results on the field.

 

[Captain43Crash]

Poe is the clear upgrade. It's debatable whether McCoy is an upgrade over Collins this year. He's been better over his career but whether he will be in 2020 I don't know.

It will help both those guys to play with Dorance Armstrong though.

I was with you until the Armstrong comment. That was probably just sarcasm though, right?

 

[StarBoyz83]

Might be a slight upgrade.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I don't know why this kind of tired and lazy butt analysis is taken so seriously and spread so profusely. Are you just trying to trick people or do you really believe what you're saying?

There are a myriad of factors and variables that go into a stat like rushing yards allowed for a team defense and in no way can you tie it back to 2 interior DL... whether the ranking is good or bad. What was the offense's role in this? Did they leave the defense out? Were they pass or run heavy? How many plays did the defense have on the field? Of those plays, how many were pass vs run? How were opponents attacking the defense? So Dallas was ranked 11th in rush yards allowed but 20th in passing yards allowed. Are you saying it's because teams didn't want to attack the daunted duo of Collins and Woods? No. It sounds silly to even type that out, but that is the line of thought that stems from your logic. Did opposing teams rush have success running inside or outside? How well are the rush defense of linebackers and DBs? We could go on and on with other variables. A stat like total rushing yards allowed being tied to the worth and efforts of 2 interior DL is just not fair and complete picture. Football is the ultimate team sport.

what is got your shorts tied in a knot. I never said its ALL THEIR FAULT. I said, its not a slam dunk that its going to be better, given two starters in the middle of the defense that ranked 23rd over all and 29th over all doesn't automatically make us better. are there other factors? yes. but these guys are big part of the front 7, with one of their main jobs stopping the run. so they can't be excused from that fact that they were part of one of the worst run defenses in the league. those two up front have a big job to do.

I am not foaming at the mouth and going all goo goo gaa gaa like you are....because its two names I heard of....does signing them make you feel better....then AWSOME good for you, why don't you chug a few beers and shots on me and just chill back...

like I said, its not a slam dunk and I will wait for the results and play on the field....

now, get your shorts untied....R E L A X

 

[kskboys]

They will only be an upgrade if their snaps are limited to about 60% or so. Either/both will break down and become less effective quickly if we insist on playing them 90% of snaps.

 

[armadillooutlaw]

They will only be an upgrade if their snaps are limited to about 60% or so. Either/both will break down and become less effective quickly if we insist on playing them 90% of snaps.

Think that's why they should bring back Woods and hopefully manage to get something out of Hill.

 

[PJTHEDOORS]

It's pretty hard to argue that Dallas didn't upgrade here..the philosophy of the old staff is clearly gone, which everybody in here is thankful for...however, this team now has significant holes in the secondary that need to be addressed

BJones loss isn't like losing prime Deion Sanders significant. Unless losing Heath was a major blow to our special teams unit. lol.

 

[PJTHEDOORS]

McCoy and Poe old and getting worse, Collins and Woods young and getting better. Also, Woods is cheap.

Woods/Collins worse? What, you want them to be elite on every snap?

 

[PJTHEDOORS]

PFF grades are useless for this. I think we got slightly better at DT. Losing Bennett and Collins for McCoy and Poe. Crawford back will help a lot too. We’re weaker at end, though, assuming Gregory even gets back. So overall we basically maintained if we don’t add a DE who can actually rush or someone doesn’t step up a lot.

I expect a better effort and some kind of pulse from the young guys Dorance Armstrong, Joe Jackson, Jalen Jelks, than they got under Marinelli.

 

[PJTHEDOORS]

They will only be an upgrade if their snaps are limited to about 60% or so. Either/both will break down and become less effective quickly if we insist on playing them 90% of snaps.

Pretty sure we get someone in the draft who can't play any less effective than what Hill delivered last year.