I could live with an Iloka and Quinn finish

Sydla

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Heath is younger than Iloka, plus faster, quicker and by far out-played him last year.

But Iloka is better...:facepalm:

Heath had more tackles because he played more. Heath also had way more missed tackles and his missed tackle rate was horrendous.

Heath is one of the worst starting safeties in the NFL.
 

brickman

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One thing to note............. Quinn is essential IMO.

You don't bring in Quinn, I think DE is now on the board in the 2nd or 3rd round. You simply cannot be dumb enough to think Lawrence, Taco, Armstrong and Hyder is good enough at DE.


They probably view DE this year as they did WR last year and we all saw how that worked out.
 

America's Cowboy

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Smarter people than you, for sure.

I think we found the biggest Heath fan boy.

It's utterly not surprising that you like what is a below average starting SS in this league simply because he's a Cowboy. Therefore, he must be good. Because only really good players play for the Cowboys!
Nah, you're just terrible at making player choices.
 

Doomsday101

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2018 stats:

George Iloka: 16 tackles, 2 assists, 0 ints
Jeff Heath: 85 tackles, 22 assists, 1 int

But George Iloka is better...

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

The stat is a bit misleading considering Iloka was not starting but backing up Jauron Kearse in Minn. 2017 as a starter in Cinn he had 80 tackles
 

Doomsday101

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Kam Chancellor 40 time: 4.69 seconds
George Iloka 40 time: 4.67

Yes, that Iloka is much quicker and faster. :omg:


Did not say it was much faster only that Richard was not looking at speed at that position. He wants big physical guys in the secondary and has said that on a number of occasions. You may disagree with that and that is fine but you are not running this defense he is and if that is what he wants from his DB then I hope he gets it
 

America's Cowboy

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Heath had more tackles because he played more. Heath also had way more missed tackles and his missed tackle rate was horrendous.

Heath is one of the worst starting safeties in the NFL.
Yeah, that Jeff Heath sucks. 85 tackles sucks. Should have been easily over 100.

Let's bring in stud 16 tackles Iloka. :confused:
 

LACowboysFan1

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Smarter people than you, for sure.

I think we found the biggest Heath fan boy.

It's utterly not surprising that you like what is a below average starting SS in this league simply because he's a Cowboy. Therefore, he must be good. Because only really good players play for the Cowboys!

Assuming Heath is "below average" (and I would rate him as average) that's still not, as I rate players, "terrible".

There are too many posters who rate players as great or terrible, no middle ground (not you, please note). There are levels of players in the NFL, just tired of the all or nothing comments.

No team can have top notch players at every position, if a team keeps trying to get rid of a serviceable player in the hopes the next guy will be great constantly, you run the very real risk of finding out the new guy isn't what the team was expecting. I really think Heath, as noted, is "serviceable" and the team has bigger needs that will eat up the salary cap, such as OT, DT and (depending on what happens with Lawrence) DE. Just not enough money to go around, everybody has their opinion as to the biggest need, which is fine, we can do that because we're not responsible for staffing an entire team. Heath may well be starting because Stephen, etc. want to focus on other positions...
 

Doomsday101

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That should tell you something.

Yes it does. They had a 3rd year player and wanted to bring in someone with experience. I don't dislike Heath and if he is to keep the job he will have to win the job. I will say I am damn glad Dallas did not waste big money on Thomas given the contract he got at his age coming off 3 years worth of injuries he is not worth it. Same with Berry, at a lower cost I have no issue with him but people do not seem to get a simple fact that as players get older their play starts to diminish and given the injuries they both have had to invest major dollars is a mistake.
 

America's Cowboy

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Did not say it was much faster only that Richard was not looking at speed at that position. He wants big physical guys in the secondary and has said that on a number of occasions. You may disagree with that and that is fine but you are not running this defense he is and if that is what he wants from his DB then I hope he gets it
Bigger but slower is better, eh? A bigger but slower SS is better than a quicker and faster one?
 

Doomsday101

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Assuming Heath is "below average" (and I would rate him as average) that's still not, as I rate players, "terrible".

There are too many posters who rate players as great or terrible, no middle ground (not you, please note). There are levels of players in the NFL, just tired of the all or nothing comments.

No team can have top notch players at every position, if a team keeps trying to get rid of a serviceable player in the hopes the next guy will be great constantly, you run the very real risk of finding out the new guy isn't what the team was expecting. I really think Heath, as noted, is "serviceable" and the team has bigger needs that will eat up the salary cap, such as OT, DT and (depending on what happens with Lawrence) DE. Just not enough money to go around, everybody has their opinion as to the biggest need, which is fine, we can do that because we're not responsible for staffing an entire team. Heath may well be starting because Stephen, etc. want to focus on other positions...

and I think he will have a chance to compete.
 

Future

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He has a better shot of it than Heath, who had the 2nd most missed tackles amongst Ss last year and one of the worst tackle effectiveness rates.
Yea, which is skewed by trying to tackle Saquon all the time.

But missed tackle rate for a safety is wildly overblown, it's a largely meaningless statistic, especially because there's no context. In general, a missed tackle means that a player gets another 3-4 yards. It's not like Heath missed 20 tackles that ended up going 80 yards for a TD. Iloka could come in, miss half as many tackles, and we wouldn't know the difference.
 

Doomsday101

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Bigger but slower is better, eh? A bigger but slower SS is better than a quicker and faster one?

As a strong safety playing a lot against the run yes. Iloka ability to make the quick reads and to get in position has also helped him vs the deep ball. they are not asking him to play one on one, much of it has to do with playing within zone coverages. Which in Seattle is what they ran much of the time. I think if you are under the impression this is going to be nothing but man on man coverage then you have a point but within a zone understanding your responsibility and being physical is a big part of operating in zones.
 

Idgit

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It’d certainly provide more interesting context considering all the complaining that went on the first week of free agency. Not that anyone would bother to remember.

Iloka I was really into last season. The fact that he went to play with his old coach and that MIN didn’t play or keep him gives me pause now, but I still wouldn’t hate it. Zero interest in Suh.
 

darthseinfeld

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I prefer a better one. Iloka is that. People fall in love with Heath's speed and think that somehow makes him a better safety. It does not, especially in the role they ask him to play. It's not just Cowboys fans that have an issue with Heath. Football Outsiders has said he's one of the worst safeties starting. Local writers have picked apart his game. John Owning has said he's not very good and that guys like Iloka and Cyprien and Phillips would be upgrades.

What good is speed if you take bad angles and miss a ton of tackles? Oh, but he pushed Carr out and saved the Raiders game. One play doesn't make up for all the bad plays.
Remember how fast Matt Johnson and AOA were
 

Sydla

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Assuming Heath is "below average" (and I would rate him as average) that's still not, as I rate players, "terrible".

There are too many posters who rate players as great or terrible, no middle ground (not you, please note). There are levels of players in the NFL, just tired of the all or nothing comments.

No team can have top notch players at every position, if a team keeps trying to get rid of a serviceable player in the hopes the next guy will be great constantly, you run the very real risk of finding out the new guy isn't what the team was expecting. I really think Heath, as noted, is "serviceable" and the team has bigger needs that will eat up the salary cap, such as OT, DT and (depending on what happens with Lawrence) DE. Just not enough money to go around, everybody has their opinion as to the biggest need, which is fine, we can do that because we're not responsible for staffing an entire team. Heath may well be starting because Stephen, etc. want to focus on other positions...

Heath was the 2nd worst tackler amongst safeties last year. He wasn't very good in 2017.

He's most definitely a below average starting S in this league.

Signing a guy like Iloka or Cyprien is likely a small, short term cap hit. He really has no bearing on what they could do at other positions. Using the salary cap to argue why we can't sign a guy like Iloka makes little sense. It might explain why walking from Thomas makes sense but not a cheap, short term replacement like Iloka.

No one is suggesting George Iloka or Cyprien is the "solution" at S. The solution likely has to come from the draft. But bringing in a guy like Iloka gives you a short term upgrade on Heath that has limited cap implications for you. It allows you to still draft a S and not have to worry about a bad cap hit 2 years down the road if Iloka stinks or the rookie plays better.
 

LACowboysFan1

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Lol you cant compare stats when 1 started 16 games and the other started 3 games.

If you remove Iloka's last year, where he didn't start, he has about 1 more tackle per game than Heath. Looking at their "best" year, when both started 16 games, their stats are essentially the same - 79 tackles for Iloka, 85 for Heath, 1 int each. Oddly enough, in the year before those years, each had 3 ints.

Heath is faster, Iloka is bigger.

Seems pretty much a wash, I'd rather stick with someone who has played with Awuzie, etc. than bring in a new guy who will have to mesh with the other DBs, which will probably take a while...
 
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