I could live with an Iloka and Quinn finish

[LACowboysFan1]

Heath was the 2nd worst tackler amongst safeties last year. He wasn't very good in 2017.

He's most definitely a below average starting S in this league.

Signing a guy like Iloka or Cyprien is likely a small, short term cap hit. He really has no bearing on what they could do at other positions. Using the salary cap to argue why we can't sign a guy like Iloka makes little sense. It might explain why walking from Thomas makes sense but not a cheap, short term replacement like Iloka.

No one is suggesting George Iloka or Cyprien is the "solution" at S. The solution likely has to come from the draft. But bringing in a guy like Iloka gives you a short term upgrade on Heath that has limited cap implications for you. It allows you to still draft a S and not have to worry about a bad cap hit 2 years down the road if Iloka stinks or the rookie plays better.

Haven't been able find a site that shows missed tackles, how about a link? Thanks

 

[Sydla]

Haven't been able find a site that shows missed tackles, how about a link? Thanks

Here's a blurb from Football Outsiders:

Jeff Heath can not tackle. We noted last year in this space that Heath had more missed tackles (11) than defeats (six). The problem got worse in 2018, as Heath's 22 broken tackles were the second-most allowed in the league. Heath just isn't a starting-caliber strong safety; he's a quality special teams player who has been promoted beyond his skill set.

FWIW, they weren't too big on Awuzie either.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/four-downs/2019/four-downs-nfc-east

 

[OmerV]

Better run stopper. Worse pass defender.

Pick your poison.

 

[eromeopolk]

I thought about it more and the more I think, the more we should keep doing what we are doing by making it in the draft. The draft is deep on defensive line, linebacker, and DBs.

We have to sign so many offensive players in the next 2 years that you can only do cheap one year deals for NFL FA and must do extremely well in the NFL draft. Draft a DT, DE, SS, FS, CB and LB in 2019. Rinse and repeat for 2020.

If you think about it, drafting defense would be better than signing defense at this point.

I like Quinn but if its more than a 5th and a 6th, then move on. Iloka is to slow to play S and to soft to play the Cam Chancelor role in Kris Richards defense.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Here's a blurb from Football Outsiders:



FWIW, they weren't too big on Awuzie either.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/four-downs/2019/four-downs-nfc-east

Would need to see how many tackle opportunities he had vs. others, if he missed 11 out of 150, but some other safety missed 6 out of say, 75, then the raw numbers wouldn't tell the whole story. Not sure that "Football Outsiders" is the cat's meow as to how good a player is, the very name of the site would make me wonder just who's on their staff...

 

[Sydla]

Would need to see how many tackle opportunities he had vs. others, if he missed 11 out of 150, but some other safety missed 6 out of say, 75, then the raw numbers wouldn't tell the whole story. Not sure that "Football Outsiders" is the cat's meow as to how good a player is, the very name of the site would make me wonder just who's on their staff...

It's a pretty well respected statistical site. Their team stats like DVOA are pretty well known.

Heath's tackle rate isn't very good either. There was a tweet about this in another thread, that I will see if I can locate.

He's just not a very good strong safety. I struggle to understand why some have issues with admitting that.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

It's a pretty well respected statistical site. Their team stats like DVOA are pretty well known.

Heath's tackle rate isn't very good either. There was a tweet about this in another thread, that I will see if I can locate.

He's just not a very good strong safety. I struggle to understand why some have issues with admitting that.

Well we can disagree to some degree on that, but regardless, the Cowboys would be better served by spending money, if they are going to, on free agents at other positions...

 

[Beaker42]

I like Iloka as he would be an upgrade. As the OP mentioned, not a long term solution. And I do expect them to draft a S in the 2nd or 3rd round, as I also expect a DT with the other. Well, I hope they do. But if we can sign ILoka and maybe Suh, or don't rule our McDowel still. As well Quinn. Then that does leave those picks open for BPA / are of need player to be elected.

But if we can get Quinn, Iloka and Such or McDowell, if healthy, then I will b pretty comfortable going into the draft.

Iloka looks and plays like a slighter built LB’er. His tackling is great and his pass defense skills are better than JH’s. Sign him.

 

[MaaS]

I’d throw Tim Jernigan’s in as another name at defensive tackle. Coming off of the back issue, he will likely be cheap in a one year prove it deal, and that’s what they seem to be looking for.

Completely agree.

Jernigan has a chance to be the steal of FA at this point. Really good player when he's healthy and a great scheme fit.

 

[Sydla]

Well we can disagree to some degree on that, but regardless, the Cowboys would be better served by spending money, if they are going to, on free agents at other positions...

Why?

Before the FA period even began, it was a pretty strong consensus that S and DT were probably the two positions that could use an upgrade in FA if they were to spend money. It's kind of bizarre that you think S was not one of the positions we needed to improve the most.

 

[Beaker42]

Well we can disagree to some degree on that, but regardless, the Cowboys would be better served by spending money, if they are going to, on free agents at other positions...

Heath misses more tackles than all other starting SS’s combined.

 

[Stash]

Completely agree.

Jernigan has a chance to be the steal of FA at this point. Really good player when he's healthy and a great scheme fit.

And still young at just 26. He finished well after his missed time with the back issue, but I think he'll have to sign a one-year deal to show that he's fully healthy. And I would rather it be here than back in Philadelphia.

 

[Sydla]

And still young at just 26. He finished well after his missed time with the back issue, but I think he'll have to sign a one-year deal to show that he's fully healthy. And I would rather it be here than back in Philadelphia.

The only small issue I have is the fact the Eagles could have gotten him likely for cheaper or restructured his deal and they chose not to and went out and paid more money for Malik Jackson. It might be nothing and they just view Jackson as better. But I worry that there is something with his back that scared Philly off.

But then, that's why we have team doctors. I would definitely take look. But I think they are content with what they have, adding Covington and then maybe drafting a guy. I think that's shortsighted, but it is what it is.

 

[Stash]

The only small issue I have is the fact the Eagles could have gotten him likely for cheaper or restructured his deal and they chose not to and went out and paid more money for Malik Jackson. It might be nothing and they just view Jackson as better. But I worry that there is something with his back that scared Philly off.

I'm sure it did, especially when it came down to a multi-year deal. I wouldn't risk it either, that's why I'm advocating another "Stephen Jones special" one year, prove-it deal.

But then, that's why we have team doctors. I would definitely take look. But I think they are content with what they have, adding Covington and then maybe drafting a guy. I think that's shortsighted, but it is what it is.

They're "content" far too often at this position, and at safety. And they're always "wrong" too.

 

[MaaS]

The only small issue I have is the fact the Eagles could have gotten him likely for cheaper or restructured his deal and they chose not to and went out and paid more money for Malik Jackson. It might be nothing and they just view Jackson as better. But I worry that there is something with his back that scared Philly off.

But then, that's why we have team doctors. I would definitely take look. But I think they are content with what they have, adding Covington and then maybe drafting a guy. I think that's shortsighted, but it is what it is.

True. Then again, Jernigan would have counted 13 million on the cap and Jackson is only counting 2.8 million for this season. It could be a scenario where Jernigan thought he could get much more than the Eagles (hypothetical) reduced offer. Fortunately for us, it doesn't appear there's an aggressive market for him.

If we could get him on a Cobb like deal... I'd be psyched.

 

[cowboyblue22]

any news on the Quinn trade is it going to happen or maybe not?

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Why?

Before the FA period even began, it was a pretty strong consensus that S and DT were probably the two positions that could use an upgrade in FA if they were to spend money. It's kind of bizarre that you think S was not one of the positions we needed to improve the most.

Bizarre? What happens if T. Smith goes down? Think Fleming is near his capability? Nope. What if C. Williams can't improve? Who's going to play OG? What if Frederick can't come back, though he's looking good to do so? Looney has to go back to C so he can't take the OG spot. What if LVE or Smith goes down? Who's the backup? No Gregory, no Irving, Taco hasn't shined, T. Crawford maybe looking at a suspension, most of the other DL players are themselves average at best.

Everybody has their opinion. If S is such a major need, why haven't the Cowboys got one? Money aside, Thomas and others have been available and none of them were signed, if it's such a need they'd spend the money for another S...

 

[Sydla]

Bizarre? What happens if T. Smith goes down? Think Fleming is near his capability? Nope. What if C. Williams can't improve? Who's going to play OG? What if Frederick can't come back, though he's looking good to do so? Looney has to go back to C so he can't take the OG spot. What if LVE or Smith goes down? Who's the backup? No Gregory, no Irving, Taco hasn't shined, T. Crawford maybe looking at a suspension, most of the other DL players are themselves average at best.

Everybody has their opinion. If S is such a major need, why haven't the Cowboys got one? Money aside, Thomas and others have been available and none of them were signed, if it's such a need they'd spend the money for another S...

You are talking about a back up OT or back up OG or a back up LB (Lee is back by the way) being more important and a bigger need than a starting S. Yes, that's kind of strange.

The Cowboys clearly wanted to try to upgrade S, which is why they kicked the tires on Thomas. You can't put money aside because it's pretty clear if Thomas wanted to play here for the money the Cowboys wanted to spend, he'd be here.

They haven't spent money on any position, frankly, so I am not sure there's much logic in suggesting because they have spent so little on S, it means they are fine with what they have at S. Further, they can add a guy like Iloka for such a low cost at this point that it really has no bearing on their ability to still address some other issues.

 

[StarBoyz83]

If you remove Iloka's last year, where he didn't start, he has about 1 more tackle per game than Heath. Looking at their "best" year, when both started 16 games, their stats are essentially the same - 79 tackles for Iloka, 85 for Heath, 1 int each. Oddly enough, in the year before those years, each had 3 ints.

Heath is faster, Iloka is bigger.

Seems pretty much a wash, I'd rather stick with someone who has played with Awuzie, etc. than bring in a new guy who will have to mesh with the other DBs, which will probably take a while...

Iloka is for sure a better tackler but besides that I dont see much of an upgrade.

 

[CWR]

Ive heard NOTHING on Quin for a couple days now. Anyone know whats up?