If Brady can do it without an elite WR Why cant Tony?

[HellCrowe]

Other players just need to step up. Time for Williams, Escobar, Whitehead, and everyone else for that matter to step their game up. Dez made it easier for everyone just with him being in the game and it will make it harder now that he'll be out but we have talent. If our oline can give Tony that much time one of our guys will get the ball. It's just a matter of taking it a step at a time to minimize those damned mistakes.

 

[cajuncocoa]

Y'all can give up if you want to, but I'm not. If last night didn't teach you that you should never give up, I don't know what to tell you.

Yes, Dez is a loss. No, we're probably not going to to run the table over those 4-6 games, but that was unlikely even WITH Dez. This team showed us something special last year, and they picked up right where they left off last night (they waited until the final seconds, but still.)

I do tend to be sunshine and rainbows until proven otherwise, but I prefer that outlook to doom and gloom. We just got started, and it's a long season. Dez never was our only receiver....those other guys are going to have to step up now.

GO COWBOYS!

 

[Hook'em#11]

Brady has had a defense that can actually make plays in the turnover department and making QB's feel uncomfortable. Dallas hasn't had that in years. Hence, why Tony gets a ton of blame that isn't on him.

 

[tyke1doe]

Did I ever say Romo makes MORE stars than Brady? No. Dude, it was just an off the fly remark about how Brady hasn't done amazing things when he hasn't had top talent.

Your logic doesn't flow sequentially.
Here's what you said:

Exactly. I think Tony can do this much better than Brady. Tom goes to crap when Gronk is out. Romo makes Miles Austin a star.

First, Tom Brady got to a Super Bowl without Gronk - FIVE TIMES!!!! Actually, six times if you consider Gronk was hurt a significant portion of the 2012 Super Bowl season.

Second, your sample size is too small. One would assume if you're making a comparison, it wouldn't be just with one player. I was giving you some benefit of the doubt here. That's why I sought to compare MORE THAN one player. But if you're acknowledging it was an off-the-cuff remark, I find it interesting that you would then tell me to "check my facts."

The number of receivers a QB throws to determines how good they are, or if they make stars? That's just silly. And yards? Really? Big whoop that Brady has thrown for more yards than Romo most years. He also has thrown it a lot more, except for 2012, where Romo had more yards passing. Romo's YPA is at 7.9, Brady's 7.4. YPA is a MUCH better stat to look at.

You never defined "star," which is what I asked you to do initially.
Second, it's not JUST about passing yards. It's about WHO receives the passes. Again, YOU said Romo has made Miles a star while Brady has crapped out sans Gronk. Translation: Romo made a star out of Miles while Brady hasn't made a star out of anyone. Although, I admit, your comparison is a bit incongruous.

Of course Welker's stats jumped dramatically. His stats jumped dramatically every year before NE too. He was a young guy just getting going. Going from an offense like Miami's (if you can call it an offense) to one that throws a ton like NE is going to cause a big jump, especially for a player who is making big strides already.

And Brady even made him a bigger weapon and a bigger star, which was my point, Thank you.

What record did Brady shatter? The TD record that he broke by 1 when he played for almost 2 full games more than Manning?

Manning played 16 games and broke Marino's record throwing for 4,557 yards and 49 TDs. Brady broke Manning's record in 16 games throwing for 4,806 yards and 50 TDs. Yes, I would say that's shattering a record.

And I really don't care how many different guys Brady has thrown a TD to. That's the kind of offense they run.

And the type of offense the Cowboys ran allowed Miles Austin to collect the yards he did. Similarly, just as the Cowboys offense, led by Romo, made Miles a "star", the type offense the Patriots ran, led by Brady, made Walker, Brown, Patten, Branch and even Gronk a "star."

Why don't you just simply look at Brady's stats when he doesn't have someone like Moss, Gronk, or Welker and compare that to how he does when they are there? Why is his rating in the 80's without them? Especially since he's had a pretty good offensive line most of his career.

You do understand that argument works against Romo, right? Or I could say to you, look at Romo's stats when he doesn't have T.O. and Witten and Dez to throw to.

You're arguing just to argue now.

 

[RS12]

Broaddus said they would at this point make up with Escobar/ Dunbar. Certainly means small ball.

 

[tyke1doe]

You do realize that SBs (and championships) are a team stat right? And You realize a lot of that was with the top talent right?
Nevermind, I forgot who I was talking to.
Without top talent - QB rating in the 80's. Period. That's the only point I was trying to make. And it's a fact. IN THE 80's!

You do realize that Romo's completions to Miles Austin is a team accomplishment, right? If the offensive line is not blocking and everyone is not doing what they are supposed to do, Romo doesn't have time to complete a pass.
Oh, nevermind. I forgot who I was talking to.

And, no, you WEREN'T talking about those stats. You made a statement that Romo made a star out of Austin while Brady has crapped without Gronk.

You couldn't be more wrong. And everyone outside of Cowboy Kool-Aid drinkers and Romo jock swingers know that Brady has done more with less than any other contemporary quarterback.

You don't have to like Brady based on Spygate and Deflategate (and I have a dislike for him because of those situations). But, please, don't devolve to absurdities to knock Brady at Romo's expense.

It makes you look supremely foolish.

 

[Doomsday101]

Brady has had a defense that can actually make plays in the turnover department and making QB's feel uncomfortable. Dallas hasn't had that in years. Hence, why Tony gets a ton of blame that isn't on him.

True but then last year the defense did create the turnovers and was one of the top team in the league in creating turnovers.

 

[Kevinicus]

Your logic doesn't flow sequentially.
Here's what you said:



First, Tom Brady got to a Super Bowl without Gronk - FIVE TIMES!!!! Actually, six times if you consider Gronk was hurt a significant portion of the 2012 Super Bowl season.

Second, your sample size is too small. One would assume if you're making a comparison, it wouldn't be just with one player. I was giving you some benefit of the doubt here. That's why I sought to compare MORE THAN one player. But if you're acknowledging it was an off-the-cuff remark, I find it interesting that you would then tell me to "check my facts."

My gosh dude. I was referencing a current player for simplicity's sake and because it is most relevant TODAY. Do you always try to take things to their most literal interpretation instead of trying to get the point of what is said? Yes, THE PATRIOTS went to Superbowls without Gronk, and Brady's numbers weren't all that great those first 3 times. The last 3 seasons he went to a superbowl, where he had much better numbers, he had Moss/Welker, Gronk/Welker, Gronk/Edelman. And it was FOUR TIMES btw. Gronk got hurt in the AFC championship game, but he was there that year, setting a record for TD's by a TE. He also had a much better line than Romo had during his career, which is much more important than the receiving threats (assuming they aren't awful).

You never defined "star," which is what I asked you to do initially.
Second, it's not JUST about passing yards. It's about WHO receives the passes. Again, YOU said Romo has made Miles a star while Brady has crapped out sans Gronk. Translation: Romo made a star out of Miles while Brady hasn't made a star out of anyone. Although, I admit, your comparison is a bit incongruous.

Miles Austin was very successful for a couple of years, made a ton of money and went to the pro-bowl. That is probably considered a star by most people. Maybe not huge, Michael Jordan star, but he was for a very brief period, a star.

And Brady even made him a bigger weapon and a bigger star, which was my point, Thank you.

He was already well on his way up that ladder before Brady.

Manning played 16 games and broke Marino's record throwing for 4,557 yards and 49 TDs. Brady broke Manning's record in 16 games throwing for 4,806 yards and 50 TDs. Yes, I would say that's shattering a record.

You realize those yardage numbers aren't records right? Marino had more than both (and 250 yards would not be considered shattering, and especially not one TD). Manning played one series (2 attempts) in the last game, and Brady ended up with about 80 more attempts.

And the type of offense the Cowboys ran allowed Miles Austin to collect the yards he did. Similarly, just as the Cowboys offense, led by Romo, made Miles a "star", the type offense the Patriots ran, led by Brady, made Walker, Brown, Patten, Branch and even Gronk a "star."

Patten, Branch, and Brown were never at the level of Austin. Just because someone played on the Patriots and you know there name doesn't mean they were a star. I guess I can say Crayton, Hurd, Robinson (and considering his other history this would be a much better example), Dez, Beasely, Harris, etc. if that's how you want to look at it.

You do understand that argument works against Romo, right? Or I could say to you, look at Romo's stats when he doesn't have T.O. and Witten and Dez to throw to

.

I can't look at Romo stats without Witten because he has always been there. But as a receiving threat, he is not the equal to Moss, TO, Gronk, Dez, or even Welker.

However, the one year that Romo did not have TO or Dez, he had a 97.6 rating...right at his career average.

You're arguing just to argue now.[

I think that's you're game, not mine. You have tried to overthink this. It was a simple statement made to point out that Brady's performance has, in the past, suffered quite a bit when he doesn't have elite players to throw to. The numbers back that up. In the 80's without the elite guys, well over with them. Romo on the other hand, did not suffer a drop off.

 

[Wood]

for 4-6 weeks. We need to run and control the clock and not have many dropped balls and turnovers. I believe in number 9 he can do it.

I agree. Witten, Williams, Beasley, Dunbar are as good as alot of NFL teams receiving ability. Michael will need to make presence felt.

 

[Hook'em#11]

True but then last year the defense did create the turnovers and was one of the top team in the league in creating turnovers.

Okay, one year. you win. lol

 

[links18]

Romo doesn't need an elite receiver, but he needs someone to keep defenses honest. Is TWill that guy?

 

[CATCH17]

How about that catch by Randle?

 

[tyke1doe]

Patten, Branch, and Brown were never at the level of Austin. Just because someone played on the Patriots and you know there name doesn't mean they were a star. I guess I can say Crayton, Hurd, Robinson (and considering his other history this would be a much better example), Dez, Beasely, Harris, etc. if that's how you want to look at it.

I would think achieving a Super Bowl MVP (Branch) and catching passes for over 1,000 yards (Welker, Brown) is more than just "playing" for the Patriots.

I think that's you're game, not mine. You have tried to overthink this. It was a simple statement made to point out that Brady's performance has, in the past, suffered quite a bit when he doesn't have elite players to throw to. The numbers back that up. In the 80's without the elite guys, well over with them. Romo on the other hand, did not suffer a drop off.

Simple is correct.

I can't look at Romo stats without Witten because he has always been there.

You see the error in your entire premise don't you?

You knock Brady by saying when he's without Gronk he's crappy. But then you say Romo has NEVER been without Witten.

Please tell me you understand the inconsistency in your statement. Or simply put, if Romo has ALWAYS played with an elite receiver, how can you even compare him to Brady who HAS played without an elite receiver - and went to Super Bowls with non-elite receivers?

You've just rendered your 80 percent rating without Gronk (I'd like to see those ratings BTW. Link please?) meaningless.

But you're right, it was a simple statement and an off-the-cuff remark. So I guess I should leave it at that.

 

[Kevinicus]

I would think achieving a Super Bowl MVP (Branch) and catching passes for over 1,000 yards (Welker, Brown) is more than just "playing" for the Patriots.



Simple is correct.



You see the error in your entire premise don't you?

You knock Brady by saying when he's without Gronk he's crappy. But then you say Romo has NEVER been without Witten.

Please tell me you understand the inconsistency in your statement. Or simply put, if Romo has ALWAYS played with an elite receiver, how can you even compare him to Brady who HAS played without an elite receiver - and went to Super Bowls with non-elite receivers?

You've just rendered your 80 percent rating without Gronk (I'd like to see those ratings BTW. Link please?) meaningless.

But you're right, it was a simple statement and an off-the-cuff remark. So I guess I should leave it at that.

Nice that you cutoff the rest of my statement where I said Witten wasn't the receiving threat the others were. He's a great, HOF TE, but he is NOT the threat that Gronk is. Not even close.

And I guess by your definition, Larry Brown was a star. Get away from the Superbowls, they cloud your judgement when evaluating individuals.

You still can't address the drop in Brady's numbers. You avoid it like the plague.

 

[tyke1doe]

Nice that you cutoff the rest of my statement where I said Witten wasn't the receiving threat the others were. He's a great, HOF TE, but he is NOT the threat that Gronk is. Not even close.

And I guess by your definition, Larry Brown was a star. Get away from the Superbowls, they cloud your judgement when evaluating individuals.

You still can't address the drop in Brady's numbers. You avoid it like the plague.

And you haven't defined "star."
Nor have you provided any numbers that I can examine.
You're all over the place.
Comparing Larry Brown with Brady.
Bahahahahahahaha!

 

[Kevinicus]

And you haven't defined "star."
Nor have you provided any numbers that I can examine.
You're all over the place.
Comparing Larry Brown with Brady.
Bahahahahahahaha!

You can't read. Or you don't even know what you said.

 

[tyke1doe]

You can't read. Or you don't even know what you said.

Whatever, son.

 

[rockj7]

How about that catch by Randle?

Catch17 that was a sweet catch I dont know if you remember Rodger Craig but always use to make those catches. I think with JR and DMC along with LD I felt it was a good start to the RBBC

 

[nalam]

Tony should continue play with the calmness he has achieved, he should continue to take what the defense gives and spread the ball around, he should not revert to force feeding it to Witten . We have Beasley , Dunbar , Escobar along with Witten and Williams & RB. It would not be possible to cover everyone and our OL can and will give time to go through the progressions.

 

[Venger]

Romo CAN do it, and WAS doing it, it helps if his receivers catch the ball, and hold onto it once they do.

Romo had two huge drives late in the game for the win, all of it with Dez on ice. He can do it.