If it isnt broke dont fix it... blah blah blah

[superonyx]

I am getting really tired of hearing people saying the same weak arguments about the Marion Barber vs J Jones debate.

Here is some popular ones and some logical responses:

If it aint broke why fix it?
If you have 1 running back that averages 5 yards per carry and scores so many touchdowns and you are taking carries away from him and giving them to a rb that hardly ever gets in the endzone and averages 4 ypc then something is broke. Something needs to be fixed.

MB has never proved he could carry the load for a season.
Has he ever given anyone a reason to think he cant carry the load? Has he been injury prone? Is he a small brian westbrook or dave megget type of back that would get physically beat up? No he is 220 pounds solid. Priest Holmes never started until the Chiefs signed him from the ravens.

I like the 1-2 punch. It's the best for the team.
Going back up to the 1st response.... how do we know its the best for the team? We have an explosive downhill runner that spins, stiffarms, plows through tacklers for every last yard possible. How is him watching from the sidelines while the other rb performs at an inferior level best for the team?

We scored 45 points and our defense sucks so why talk about this?
How about because this is a message board and that is what people do on message boards. Just because Romo threw for 4 touchdowns, and ran 1 in does not mean every offensive player gets a pass on everything.

Now some may find it hard to believe that us cowboys fans that want Barber to carry the bulk of the load actually like Julius Jones. Well we do. I know i do. However it has became to difficult to keep watching this continue and not say something. It is messed up that our best RB is not our starting RB. Lets put it like this and see if the Julius Jones supporters will agree.......

If both players entered free agency right now. (unrestricted) Who do you think would get more interest around the league? Who would get a bigger contract? hmmm....

 

[Achozen]

Out of all the colors why that one?

 

[Boyzmamacita]

Marion Barber said it himself. If it aint broke, don't fix it. May he was being politically correct, but if he can accept his role, there's no reason why the rest of us shouldn't. You have to admit MBIII is pretty productive the way we're using him.

 

[cleverusername]

Out of all the colors why that one?

This from Mr. Pink.

"Why do I have to be Pink?" :laugh1:

 

[jrumann59]

Ok lets say we switch it up. Now Julius is doing better do we switch back. How soon we forget when we had T-Ham rushing for like a 4.0 ypc many thought he should start over emmitt who looked he lost a step. When troy was a full time starter in 2004 he avg'd a paltry 3.53 ypc, when he left and went to Arizona to back up emmitt again he avg 4.49 ypc. Like MBIII all the same argument were used on why he should start.

 

[Biggems]

Ok lets say we switch it up. Now Julius is doing better do we switch back. How soon we forget when we had T-Ham rushing for like a 4.0 ypc many thought he should start over emmitt who looked he lost a step. When troy was a full time starter in 2004 he avg'd a paltry 3.53 ypc, when he left and went to Arizona to back up emmitt again he avg 4.49 ypc. Like MBIII all the same argument were used on why he should start.

Hamhock was avging 5.2 a carry while backing up Emmitt......then he stunk it up when Emmitt went away. I wish we would have sent Hamhock to Zona and kept Emmitt those last two years.

 

[Clove]

I'm in the start Barber camp, but if they choose to keep it the way it is, I won't lose any sleep tonight.

 

[silverbear]

I am getting really tired of hearing people saying the same weak arguments about the Marion Barber vs J Jones debate.

Here is some popular ones and some logical responses:

If it aint broke why fix it?
If you have 1 running back that averages 5 yards per carry and scores so many touchdowns and you are taking carries away from him and giving them to a rb that hardly ever gets in the endzone and averages 4 ypc then something is broke. Something needs to be fixed.

MB has never proved he could carry the load for a season.
Has he ever given anyone a reason to think he cant carry the load? Has he been injury prone? Is he a small brian westbrook or dave megget type of back that would get physically beat up? No he is 220 pounds solid. Priest Holmes never started until the Chiefs signed him from the ravens.

I like the 1-2 punch. It's the best for the team.
Going back up to the 1st response.... how do we know its the best for the team? We have an explosive downhill runner that spins, stiffarms, plows through tacklers for every last yard possible. How is him watching from the sidelines while the other rb performs at an inferior level best for the team?

We scored 45 points and our defense sucks so why talk about this?
How about because this is a message board and that is what people do on message boards. Just because Romo threw for 4 touchdowns, and ran 1 in does not mean every offensive player gets a pass on everything.

Now some may find it hard to believe that us cowboys fans that want Barber to carry the bulk of the load actually like Julius Jones. Well we do. I know i do. However it has became to difficult to keep watching this continue and not say something. It is messed up that our best RB is not our starting RB. Lets put it like this and see if the Julius Jones supporters will agree.......

If both players entered free agency right now. (unrestricted) Who do you think would get more interest around the league? Who would get a bigger contract? hmmm....

No matter what YOU think, two different coaching staffs have decided that the Cowboys' offense functions best with a two-head running back by committee approach, with Julius Jones getting a few more carries than Marion Barber does...

Until and unless you can show me why I should trust your football knowledge over theirs, I'm gonna assume that they know more than you do... particularly since they're MUCH closer to the situation...

Yup, I'm one of those who likes the current running scheme just fine, and I'm looking forward to you attempting to address THAT "weak argument" (that two different coaching staffs certainly know more about the game of football than you do)...

My final observation will be that as a backup, Troy Hambrick once averaged 5.1 yards per carry... then when he became the lead back, that average took a SEVERE nosedive, all the way down to 3.5... this comparison is doubly apropos when you factor in that Hambrick and Barber had rather similar running styles...

IOW, it may well be that the coaches have decided that Barber is most effective in the role he's in now, and would become less effective if they gave him the lead role...

 

[superonyx]

So i guess Marion Barber is now troy hambrick?
Come on come up with something better than that. Troy Hambrick?
So i guess we should assume that any rb that does not start yet performs at a level higher than the starter is going to be troy hambrick.
So any RB that does not come into the league and start right away will never be worth starting? Because that is the senarrio that your Troy Hambrick argument makes.

So the other side of this is Julius Jones.... what has he done to be compared to emmitt smith? Is he the answer for the next 5 years at RB?
We might as well face facts.... 1 of these guys is going to leave. Maybe MB. He did hire that new agent for a reason. Are we prepared to let him leave or are we prepared to pay him what other teams may? And JJ is looking at the same thing. That rookie contract is about up and he wants to get paid.

 

[superonyx]

Yup, I'm one of those who likes the current running scheme just fine, and I'm looking forward to you attempting to address THAT "weak argument" (that two different coaching staffs certainly know more about the game of football than you do)...

Well considering that the first coaching staff decided to pass on Steven Jackson to draft Julius Jones i think you need to admit that they are not always right about all things football. Then that same coaching staff is now being talked about by Julius Jones as making him run poorly.

The other coaching staff gave both guys the same number of carries so far. Lets watch what takes place over the next couple of weeks. Maybe MB will get an increasing number of carries. So the Jury is still out on what Phillips staff will do with this. Lets see what happens when the gaps in production continue and all pressure gets turned up even more.

Should i assume that since every NFL coach has so much more knowledge than every fan that fans shouldnt even waste time posting on message boards about football and personnel?

Or should we assume that the only argument you have as to why Julius should get the bulk of the carries is that 1. Troy Hambrick sucks and 2. Parcells wants it like that?

 

[BigDFan5]

Here is some popular ones and some logical responses:

If it aint broke why fix it?
If you have 1 running back that averages 5 yards per carry and scores so many touchdowns and you are taking carries away from him and giving them to a rb that hardly ever gets in the endzone and averages 4 ypc then something is broke. Something needs to be fixed.

The YPC argument holds no water since you can not say he would have 5 ypc as the lead runner, while he is worlds better than Hambrick he had a 5.1 ypc as a 2nd RB too

The reason JJ never gets into the endzone is because after he helps us march downfield he gets pulled for the goaline back, Barber

MB has never proved he could carry the load for a season.
Has he ever given anyone a reason to think he cant carry the load? Has he been injury prone? Is he a small brian westbrook or dave megget type of back that would get physically beat up? No he is 220 pounds solid. Priest Holmes never started until the Chiefs signed him from the ravens.

Well his high school coach, College coach, and Pro coach ALL thought he was better sharing carries, maybe they know something huh?

Holmes started 13 games for the ravens in 98, he also started and carried the load in college and high school

I like the 1-2 punch. It's the best for the team.
Going back up to the 1st response.... how do we know its the best for the team? We have an explosive downhill runner that spins, stiffarms, plows through tacklers for every last yard possible. How is him watching from the sidelines while the other rb performs at an inferior level best for the team?

Because the team and MB3 himself all agree? The way the rotation is set is fine for now.

We scored 45 points and our defense sucks so why talk about this?
How about because this is a message board and that is what people do on message boards. Just because Romo threw for 4 touchdowns, and ran 1 in does not mean every offensive player gets a pass on everything.

Yes this is a message board and you can say whatever you want and we will continue to say all the things you listed that bother you

Now some may find it hard to believe that us cowboys fans that want Barber to carry the bulk of the load actually like Julius Jones. Well we do. I know i do. However it has became to difficult to keep watching this continue and not say something. It is messed up that our best RB is not our starting RB. Lets put it like this and see if the Julius Jones supporters will agree.......


If both players entered free agency right now. (unrestricted) Who do you think would get more interest around the league? Who would get a bigger contract? hmmm....

Both would be signed on day one of FA, but what does this have to do with the Cowboys? They are good together, if I couldnt have both, then I would want 1 elite runner, which neither of them are.

 

[Rack]

People really need to quit comparing Hambrick to MB3.

1. The ONLY reason Hambrick averaged 5 ypc that one year is cuz he had an 84 yard run vs Philly (in which he did NOT score).


2. Hambrick tripped over blades of grass. MB3 mows the grass, the LB, the Safety, the ref, and anything else that gets in his way.

 

[silverbear]

Should i assume that since every NFL coach has so much more knowledge than every fan that fans shouldnt even waste time posting on message boards about football and personnel?

No, but you probably SHOULD assume that the boys getting paid to make these decisions are a wee bit more knowledgeable than you are... that there's a REASON why the rotation is set up the way it is...

I personally like both running backs just fine... I am a fan of the way Barber runs the football... I'll also be just fine if the Boys let Julius hit the free agent highway at the end of the year, and draft themselves a young stud running back like Darren McFadden next spring... so it's not like I'm some huge Julius Jones homer, but I DO remember that when he started at the end of his rookie season, he had the whole league talking about him, the way they talked about Romo at the end of last year... he was an exciting talent who made defenders look silly with his moves, and I see no reason why he can't once again be that kind of runner...

I guess you and the rest of the Barber fan club have forgotten about those games where Julius gained 150 against the Bears, 198 against the Seahawks, 149 against the Giants...

 

[silverbear]

People really need to quit comparing Hambrick to MB3.

1. The ONLY reason Hambrick averaged 5 ypc that one year is cuz he had an 84 yard run vs Philly (in which he did NOT score).

Well, are you suggesting that one doesn't count?? OK, let's play Devil's Advocate here, and pretend it never happened-- now, Troy has 112 carries for 495 yards, a 4.4 average... which just happens to be what Barber has averaged thus far in his NFL career...

It's also almost a full yard per carry higher than what Ham averaged when he became the starter, which brings us back to the real point of the comparison, that backup running backs often find a bit easier sledding than the starters do...

Or are you suggesting that Hambrick was a better back than Emmitt was, even that late in the latter's career??

 

[CaptainAmerica]

JJ better pick up the pace quick or he will be seeing a lot more bench time.

Barber is a beast that fuels the entire team. You don't keep him on the bench for long stretches and certainly not in the last 3 minutes when you are trying to control the clock and the ball. JJ's run out of bounds was inexcusable for a player with his experience.

 

[theogt]

Hamhock was avging 5.2 a carry while backing up Emmitt......then he stunk it up when Emmitt went away. I wish we would have sent Hamhock to Zona and kept Emmitt those last two years.

Barber =/= Hambrick

Why even bring this up?

 

[AdamJT13]

The other coaching staff gave both guys the same number of carries so far.

Jones got 16 carries, and Barber got 11. Before the final drive, when we ran out the clock, it was 16 to 6.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Marion Barber said it himself. If it aint broke, don't fix it. May he was being politically correct, but if he can accept his role, there's no reason why the rest of us shouldn't. You have to admit MBIII is pretty productive the way we're using him.

For some reason... I believe this kid... he just wants to do his part and help the team win. So I think he is just be refreshingly honest.

This from Mr. Pink.

"Why do I have to be Pink?" :laugh1:

Hey... can I change with you?
I dont care.
He said I can change with him.
There is no flippin changing.
You are Mr. Pink!!

 

[Undisputed]

I'd certainly like to see Barber get more of the carries. I just can't buy the "if it ain't broke..." reasoning. In fact, it is almost the same logic I hate when used to defend a guy like Rex Grossman after the Bears pick up a win. No one is saying that something is "broken", but when you have an opportunity to IMPROVE the effectiveness of your team, then why not give it a shot?

We aren't talking about tearing down a house and building a new one. We are talking about reinforcing its foundation. Or at least the possibility of reinforcing it. Sure, our offense looks good. But is there ever a "good enough" in the NFL? Shouldn't we be trying to squeeze every drop of productivity out of our offensive unit every game? Especially when our hopes are as high as a Superbowl victory?

I believe so. We are going to need everything that this team has to make it where we want to go. And it just gets harder and harder every week to watch Julius fall into piles for a single yard, while thinking "You know...We got a great one-two punch! Why mess with this great system?". Especially when one of those two punches is more like a light slap on the wrist in the form of Julius's running style.

Do I trust the coaches? Somewhat. But I am not really convinced that they aren't beginning to think the same things that we are. That Julius is an average back and that Barber needs more carries. I really wouldn't be surprised to see a gradual change in the amount of carries the two receive as the year progresses.

 

[theogt]

Jones got 16 carries, and Barber got 11. Before the final drive, when we ran out the clock, it was 16 to 6.

That's in large part because Julius couldn't get much going on 1st and 2nd down and Tony ended up throwing a lot of 3rd and longs. Thus, Barber didn't get many 3rd down carries. In fact, he only had one 3rd down carry and one 4th down carry.

Excluding Julius's 21 yard run, he had 8 carries on first down for 17 yards (2.1 YPC).