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Improving upon these 5 weaknesses-success for this season

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by Cowboyny, Aug 2, 2020.

  1. CowboysFaninHouston

    CowboysFaninHouston CowboysFaninDC

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    I think poor coaching has to do more with it than anything. even when we had the starters, there was a lot of questionable moves. you get the next guy, he is a back up for a reason and you can't expect him to do exactly what the guy in front of him did, which is what our coaches wanted. you have to adjust to the strength of the player....
     
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  2. kskboys

    kskboys Well-Known Member

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    Yup. Some very poor drafting combined w/ extreme stubbornness to not cut the subpar backup and get someone better. Chaz Green comes to mind.
     
  3. kskboys

    kskboys Well-Known Member

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    Agree. JG's staff was notorious for pathetically stuffing round players into square holes.
     
  4. CouchCoach

    CouchCoach Well-Known Member

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    Depth is an issue on most teams because there's not enough good players to go around and there's only one that I see focusing on all 53. He's also the one I see not giving lip service to that importance of all 3 elements of a team and addressing that through the draft and FA constantly. He focuses on ST as much as he does O and D.

    The major weakness of the Cowboys is how they've been built. The GM is follow the ball, so is the team. Offense is sexy, defense is boring and ST are an afterthought. The money goes to the O side with half the starters in the top 6 paid at their position.

    But the real problem, the one I would say has plagued this franchise for 25 years, is the low regard in which coaching has been held. HC's are not there to make the GM "comfortable" and the only good staff they had since the Johnson era was there to get the new Big Top and they were undercut in their attempt to build a team.

    Those weaknesses? They're there for a reason.
     
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  5. Cowboyny

    Cowboyny Well-Known Member

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    Good point about team stubbornness, many of our backups that we finally release tend to be done in this league.
     
  6. Cowboyny

    Cowboyny Well-Known Member

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    We can point to lack of coaching, but Marinellis Defenses in Chicago were among the best in creating defensive turnovers. His scheme played a role, but we simply don't have the right personnel. Need more ball hawks and instinctive players, let's hope Diggs is a good start to help in this area.
     
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  7. CouchCoach

    CouchCoach Well-Known Member

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    Marinelli was the DLC in Chitown.
     
  8. gjkoeppen

    gjkoeppen Well-Known Member

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    Garrett made enough mistakes but what you said about doing the same thing week after week was like watch the same movie over and over isn't fair. The Cowboys of the 90's ran the same offense week after week. The Cowboys in 2016 was a run first offense and went 13-3. They struck with that until last season. In 2018 they went to the playoffs and lost in the divisional round to the rams because of the defense. Last season they moved on from a run first offense and passed more yet the record was just 8-8. Yes Garrett made some mistakes but last season there were multiple injuries on the offensive line, Elliott had 6 subpar games of 60 yards or less, one for only 35 yards on 18 carries. The cowboys receiving corp lead the league in drops. All of those things along with some mistakes by Garrett are the reasons for an 8-8 season.

    Now in 2016 you probably thought that was a really good movie you were watching week after week along with 2018. Yes Garrett made mistakes but to put the entire blame on him doesn't make anymore sense than blaming all the losses on Prescott. I wasn't sad to see Garrett gone but the last 4 years he had two good years with little injuries to worry about and 1 year with a 6 game suspension for Elliott and what i already said about last season. Like I said Garrett made his share of mistakes but all the losses weren't just his fault.
    .
    .
     
  9. Cowboyny

    Cowboyny Well-Known Member

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    Not true. He started as the team's DL Coach, but became the DC for 3 seasons before he left for the Cowboys job.
     
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  10. kskboys

    kskboys Well-Known Member

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    Disruptive DLine, baby. That's what he had in CHI that caused TO's.
     
  11. quickccc

    quickccc Well-Known Member

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    ..along with ball hawks that created turnovers , ..ala the " Peanut-puncher " Tillman

     
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  12. Cowboyny

    Cowboyny Well-Known Member

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    Tillman was a turnover machine, especially with stripped fumbles.
     
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  13. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    Very few fans understood the value of Spencer. How many players have been franchised twice...the coaches put a high value on him. His job was not to attempt to play like Ware. Pippen's job waa not to attempt to be Jordan...

    There are two types of hybrid DE/LB types.
    - One that plays DE in a 4 man line.
    - One that plays LB in a 4 man line.

    Spencer played DE in a 4 man line.

    Jaylon will play LB in a 4 man line.
     
  14. quickccc

    quickccc Well-Known Member

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    - If i have Scottie Pippien i entrust that he will make his share of big play momentum swinging game and feasted upon whatever attention Michael Jordan was bringing.

    - if i have Jerry Rice, then i am very much expecting and entrusting WR John Taylor on the opposite side,.. to feast upon whatever
    extra attention that Rice is obviously getting

    ...So what was Spencer's excuse ?

    - if i'm drafting you as an edge player in the first round, you won't expected to be Dware (or michael jordan as you say) but i am drafting
    a Justin Houston to be a huge bookend compliment to Tambi Hali

    - if i have Von Miller on one side, and i'm drafting Bradley Chubb to definitely make his fair share of impact edge rushing big plays to vastly compliment Von.

    - Ditto with Lamar Woodley to James Harrison
    - Ditto with Whitney Merciless to Jevon Clowney (when he was in Houston)
    - ZaDarius Smith to Preston Smith to

    Teams playing 3-4 scheme coveted bookend edge rushers OLB, but they are not just falling off trees as with any edge rushers, they
    are hard to come by,

    why did they franchise Spencer twice ? they didn't have a contingency plan that saw anyone else that could replace him in FA or the draft
    But that should not be that surprising since it's still being shown that
    his team is not devoid of making very questionable personnel decisions such as keeping Crawford on the last 2 years
    at his going rate of 8-9 million just because they like his locker room presence ? Geez..
    Another case of underappreciated fan value i guess

    With Spencer guy that not until his lone 2012 season couldn't even beat the pass blocking RT he was playing against.
    Just dropping into zones and playing the run was averaging 4.8 sacks before his 11 sacks in 2012?

    when Spencer finally did make a pro bowl (as an injury alternate) ..what was the stat and production that made it possible for
    him to be a Pro Bowl invite ? His 11 sacks.Those are the accololades are stand outs among peers, coaches.
    Not him dropping in zones, or playing the run. while those traits are important to the overall effect it's edge rushers that are in the
    biggest demand because it greatly impacts the passing game and too many games are changed thru it's outcome.
     
  15. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    They didn't play Spencer in a way that was likely to rack up big sack numbers.

    It goes back to watching game footage (All-22) which most fans don't but coach do.

    Victor Butler was better when he had to fill in for Ware than when he had to fill in for Spencer.

    The Spencer position was just too complicated for Butler and some other backup OLBs back then.

    One of the big issues was that Spencer often had primary responsibility for the RB on pass routes which was rarely true for DWare.

    That put Spencer in the read-and-react mode with regards to pass coverage on the RB.

    If Spencer rushed the passer immediately, the Cowboys would be vulnerable to the RB catching a pass with nobody covering him.

    That often delayed Spencer as a pass rusher and most pass rush wins happen off the snap.

    The only reason Spencer's career was cut short is that he was unable to completely recover from a leg injury.


    Both the Wade Phillips and Rob Ryan defenses required that type of SOLB. Not all 3-4 defenses play that style. The Steelers never played the Wade Phillips style of 3-4.

    The Wade Phillips 3-4 had more similarities to the Marinelli 4-3 than to the Bill Parcells 3-4.
     
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  16. quickccc

    quickccc Well-Known Member

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    You can choose to go on and on about Spencer and what he was not used for that
    But you draft edge players in the 1st round to impact rushing the QB passer
    That's TJ Watt, ..that's Shawn Merriman...that's Terrell Suggs ..that's Von Miller ...that's Ryan Kerrigan... that's DWare ...that's Aldon Smith
    etc, etc.
    You don't draft edge players to be zone droppers and run stuffers in the 1st round for that.

    - Spencer was expected to be a bookend top notch pass rusher opposite DWare.
    coming out of Purdue.
    Simply and plain Almost Anthony just never developed into that kind of player.-aside from his lone 2012 year, when he had 11 sacks.

    - If they didn't play Spencer "that way," it was because they eventually discovered
    he wasn't likely to be that caliber of player.
    So they decided what other capable ways they could best use him.
    Fortunately playing the run was Spencer's best forte.
    But again that's not why they invested such a high pick in him.

    - i realize the different varieties of 3-4 schemes with teams. But that's more so the
    way they use their DEs and NTs.
    In Wade's and Rob Ryans,it's more of a slanting one gap whereas they can best utilize their pass rush abilities more in a 1-gap 3-4 scheme
    And don't have the responsibilities vs the run in a 2 gap scheme.
    But this is to the regards of the DL unit schemes.
    That doesn't have anything to do with the rushing OLBs, in a 3-4.

    - Bottom line is Spencer wasn't this special player, he was a career underachiever and never ended up being worth the 1st round pick we spent on him.
     
  17. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    If the DL plays differently between schemes then the LBs play differently. Can't change 1 without the other.

    We hope that all Cowboys 1st round picks are like DWare but you don't get a HoF type player very often.

    Spencer was a late 1st.

    DLaw is not remotely close to DWare in talent either but he is a very good player. The 2nd and 3rd they gave up for him is about equal to a 1st round pick.

    Spencer was closer to Dware than to Taco on a scale of 1 to 100.

    DWare
    .
    .
    .
    Claiborne
    Taco
     
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  18. Cowboyny

    Cowboyny Well-Known Member

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    Spencer was a very unappreciated player as many would judge him just on his sack numbers. Back then, we heard that the Cowboys were one of the best against the run, where they rarely had to use extra men in the box to stop it. Spencer played a big role in that. He was so available that the team franchised him.
     
  19. nalam

    nalam The realist

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    see my thread “ wish list to Big Mac” ,https://cowboyszone.com/threads/wish-list-to-big-mac.461249/
    we echo the thoughts.
     
  20. quickccc

    quickccc Well-Known Member

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    the read/shed keys may vary in run defense because there are gap responsibility but nothing changes in how a 3-4 OLB pass rushes off
    the edge.

    it doesn't matter if its' late 1st rd draft pick (with Spencer), ..Heck ,.TJ Watt was a late round draft pick too, but he's a smash hit that we had a chance on, we definitely had him on our draft board - even ahead of Taco Charleton, but the scouts wanted so much to satisfy Marinelli
    and his " length" preference that we decided to go with the Taco pick..
    . And you know the rest of that story from there

    And yet again, not asking Spencer to be DWare,.. but as a 1st round pick period, we were asking Spencer
    to be a quality enough bookend edge rusher himself opposite Dware, to where he is a impact factor to be dealt with in his own right
    We're asking him to be what Lamar Woodley was to James Harrison, ...what Whtney Mercilus was to Jevon Clowney, ..etc. etc.
     

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