Insider Buzz: Top WR Treadwell Could Fall to End of Round 1 Due to Slow 40 Time

[Alexander]

And what is so great about Jarvis Landry?

Oh, I don't know. Reliable. Productive. Gets open all the time.

 

[jterrell]

The last thing we need on offense is another slow guy. Treadwell is a decent player but if I'm burning a premium pick, the guy is going to prove he can get separation, especially in this scheme.

Give me Braxton in the third instead. He can return kicks too.

this is reallllly odd but quite popular.
Dallas has 3 WRs that catch the ball.
Dez and TWill BOTH ran a 4.52 and are speed WRs.
Beasley ran a sub 4.5 i.e. below and is 100% a speed and quickness based player.

the only slow guy who catches the ball is Witten.

might add Dallas has a developmental WR in Lucky Whitehead who clocks 4.4 flat.


But I do like Miller in the 3rd if he is there ... even if he runs a 4.52 like Dez and TWill.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Oh, I don't know. Reliable. Productive. Gets open all the time.

reliable and productive are hardly a reason to blow the 4th pick in the draft. What was his best season as a pro? Probably this year. 1100 yards and 4 TD's as the #1 option? Not bad, but certainly nothing to crow about. If you take a receiver with the 4th pick in the draft, he better be the next Calvin Johnson. Treadwell isnt even close to that.

 

[Rogerthat12]

I will gladly stand by my statement here.
Unless you are employed as a scout you probably shouldn't take it personally.

As to my social skills that is also probably accurate. I am not sure I'll ever master nicely calling an obviously stupid football opinion stupid.

Your problem is that you are calling people stupid, not just their argument or opinion.

Further, just know that this approach is the most basic logical informal fallacy which demonstrates poor logic in itself.

Everyone is free to their opinion or argument but attacking the person because they disagree with your opinion is base level and classless.

You have a history of doing this all over the board.

 

[jterrell]

Your problem is that you are calling people stupid, not just their argument or opinion.

Further, just know that this approach is the most basic logical informal fallacy which demonstrates poor logic in itself.

Everyone is free to their opinion or argument but attacking the person because they disagree with your opinion is base level and classless.

Your 'butthurtedness' is your issue not mine.

I called scouts who do this for a living stupid if they knock Treadwell for his 40 time.
The article was not addressing forum members who are completely entitled to goofy opinions.
I was addressing professionals who get paid to be accurate.
Hence the word "scout" in my critique.

You can avoid having your feelings hurt quite easily by placing me on ignore.
Or you could read more carefully.

What I won't do is ignore looking at the evidence and facts and calling people out for ignoring it.
You have been duly forewarned.
Have a DJ Khaled Blessed day.

 

[Rogerthat12]

Your 'butthurtedness' is your issue not mine.

I called scouts who do this for a living stupid if they knock Treadwell for his 40 time.
The article was not addressing forum members who are completely entitled to goofy opinions.
I was addressing professionals who get paid to be accurate.
Hence the word "scout" in my critique.

You can avoid having your feelings hurt quite easily by placing me on ignore.
Or you could read more carefully.

What I won't do is ignore looking at the evidence and facts and calling people out for ignoring it.
You have been duly forewarned.
Have a DJ Khaled Blessed day.

Another logical fallacy, just can not help yourself.

Or you can stop committing informal logical fallacies and attacking people and instead deal with the cogency of their argument.

You could learn basic respect for other human beings and understand the basic notion of critical thinking that allows for various interpretations of given facts.

I am not upset with you for constantly committing logical fallacies, it simply undermines everything you say and supports the fact that you resort to name calling because you utilize poor logic when your personal opinion or approach has been challenged.

If you were reading carefully, the original video simply indicated that his draft stock could fall due to a slow 40 time, he was not knocking the players talent, simply indicating that he may drop if he is slow.

Thus attacking the scouts who raise this concern is absurd, since when does speed not matter for the WR position in terms of scouting prospects, it is part of the evaluation just not the only determining factor.

Further, I am unsure this approach of constant name calling and insulting others is part of the board rules, maybe a mod can chime in on this point.

 

[Alexander]

reliable and productive are hardly a reason to blow the 4th pick in the draft. What was his best season as a pro? Probably this year. 1100 yards and 4 TD's as the #1 option? Not bad, but certainly nothing to crow about. If you take a receiver with the 4th pick in the draft, he better be the next Calvin Johnson. Treadwell isnt even close to that.

Production matters at the WR spot. That tells you that the player can get open.

And while I am not advocating Treadwell at 4 per se, what if your scouts put him there?

I keep reading people say "don't 'blow' the 4th pick in the draft on X player, they better be like All World player Y, if so."

The goal in any draft is to get the best player you can, for your team, in that draft.

It is not about just about thinking you are getting generational talents just because you pick high. Literally every draft has top 5-10 players that were labeled as sure things and the next "....". Does not always materialize.

 

[tm1119]

reliable and productive are hardly a reason to blow the 4th pick in the draft. What was his best season as a pro? Probably this year. 1100 yards and 4 TD's as the #1 option? Not bad, but certainly nothing to crow about. If you take a receiver with the 4th pick in the draft, he better be the next Calvin Johnson. Treadwell isnt even close to that.

Did you not read the part about me specifically saying I wouldn't take Treadwell with the 4th pick? Has anyone even advocated Treadwell at 4 this entire thread? I was simply making a point that you don't have to run a fast 40 time to be great.

And 194 catches in his 1st 2 years in the league isn't impressive enough for you? That's pretty incredible. Don't feel like looking it up but I highly doubt the list is more than a few names long of guys who had more in their 1st 2 years.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Production matters at the WR spot. That tells you that the player can get open.

And while I am not advocating Treadwell at 4 per se, what if your scouts put him there?

I keep reading people say "don't 'blow' the 4th pick in the draft on X player, they better be like All World player Y, if so."

The goal in any draft is to get the best player you can, for your team, in that draft.

It is not about just about thinking you are getting generational talents just because you pick high. Literally every draft has top 5-10 players that were labeled as sure things and the next "....". Does not always materialize.

Where did I say production doesnt matter?

Landry is a good player, and no doubt he would be even more productive in a better offense with a better QB. But taking a guy with the 4th pick and hoping he becomes a Landry type, I will pass.

WR is not a high area of need for this team and Treadwell is not the type of receiver we need in this offense considering what we already have.

This offense needs a QB of the future and a RB.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Did you not read the part about me specifically saying I wouldn't take Treadwell with the 4th pick? Has anyone even advocated Treadwell at 4 this entire thread? I was simply making a point that you don't have to run a fast 40 time to be great.

And 194 catches in his 1st 2 years in the league isn't impressive enough for you? That's pretty incredible. Don't feel like looking it up but I highly doubt the list is more than a few names long of guys who had more in their 1st 2 years.

There have been several people in several threads that have been talking about taking Treadwell at #4. Glad you agree he isnt worthy of that pick.

And no, I havent read every single post of yours or all others in this thread.

 

[texbumthelife]

Production matters at the WR spot. That tells you that the player can get open.

And while I am not advocating Treadwell at 4 per se, what if your scouts put him there?

I keep reading people say "don't 'blow' the 4th pick in the draft on X player, they better be like All World player Y, if so."

The goal in any draft is to get the best player you can, for your team, in that draft.

It is not about just about thinking you are getting generational talents just because you pick high. Literally every draft has top 5-10 players that were labeled as sure things and the next "....". Does not always materialize.

There are hundreds of receivers that produced at the college level, but couldn't in the pros because they couldn't get separation. It's not a mistake or a trend for scouts to expect wide outs to run certain times, to be selected high. There is a reason for it. A bad 40 doesn't mean Treadwell wont be good, but a low 40 is definitely a good thing.

Dez and TWill BOTH ran a 4.52 and are speed WRs.

Dez isn't and never has been a "speed receiver." He is a more athletic Anquan Boldin. A big body who is great after the catch with strong hands and fierce competitiveness.

 

[jterrell]

Receiving Yards by Rookies 2015

1. Amari Cooper WR, Oakland Raiders – 1070 --drafted 4th. 4.42 40.
2. Stefon Diggs WR, Minnesota Vikings – 827 --5th round. 4.46 40.
3. Tyler Lockett WR, Seattle Seahawks – 664 --3rd round. 4.40
4. Jamison Crowder WR, Washington Commanders – 597-- 4th round. 4.56
5. Duke Johnson RB
6. Dorial Green Beckham WR, Tennessee Titans – 527 --pick 40. 4.49
7. Devin Funchess WR, Carolina Panthers – 472 --pick 41. 4.70
8. Will Tye TE
9. Devante Parker WR, Miami Dolphins – 414 --pick 14. 4.45
10. David Johnson RB

Of the 7 WR in the top 10 rookies by yardage receiving, 0 players ran a sub 4.4 even tho there were 4 WRs at the combine who did. This means not one rookie in the top 10 in receiving yards last year ran faster than Lucky Whitehead.

WR is a skill position.
Being a 4.3 WR is no more helpful than being a 4.3 QB unless you have the other requisite skills.

 

[jterrell]

There are hundreds of receivers that produced at the college level, but couldn't in the pros because they couldn't get separation. It's not a mistake or a trend for scouts to expect wide outs to run certain times, to be selected high. There is a reason for it. A bad 40 doesn't mean Treadwell wont be good, but a low 40 is definitely a good thing.



Dez isn't and never has been a "speed receiver." He is a more athletic Anquan Boldin. A big body who is great after the catch with strong hands and fierce competitiveness.

That is completely untrue. Pull up any draft profile of Dez.
He was always considered a big-time threat as a WR and Return guy.
And he is one the NFL's biggest playmakers.

Dez is extremely explosive.

line 1 .....http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/dez-bryant?id=497278
Bryant is an extremely talented receiver that has legitimate downfield speed as well as the ability to adjust to off-target throws.

 

[texbumthelife]

That is completely untrue. Pull up any draft profile of Dez.
He was always considered a big-time threat as a WR and Return guy.
And he is one the NFL's biggest playmakers.

Dez is extremely explosive.

line 1 .....http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/dez-bryant?id=497278
Bryant is an extremely talented receiver that has legitimate downfield speed as well as the ability to adjust to off-target throws.

When did I say Dez isn't a big time threat, a play maker or explosive? Once again, you're fabricating arguments just to argue. I simply said he's not a speed guy.

 

[texbumthelife]

Receiving Yards by Rookies 2015

1. Amari Cooper WR, Oakland Raiders – 1070 --drafted 4th. 4.42 40.
2. Stefon Diggs WR, Minnesota Vikings – 827 --5th round. 4.46 40.
3. Tyler Lockett WR, Seattle Seahawks – 664 --3rd round. 4.40
4. Jamison Crowder WR, Washington Commanders – 597-- 4th round. 4.56
5. Duke Johnson RB
6. Dorial Green Beckham WR, Tennessee Titans – 527 --pick 40. 4.49
7. Devin Funchess WR, Carolina Panthers – 472 --pick 41. 4.70
8. Will Tye TE
9. Devante Parker WR, Miami Dolphins – 414 --pick 14. 4.45
10. David Johnson RB

Of the 7 WR in the top 10 rookies by yardage receiving, 0 players ran a sub 4.4 even tho there were 4 WRs at the combine who did. This means not one rookie in the top 10 in receiving yards last year ran faster than Lucky Whitehead.

WR is a skill position.
Being a 4.3 WR is no more helpful than being a 4.3 QB unless you have the other requisite skills.

As you seem to always do, you're making up arguments. No one said a receivers needs to run a 4.3. Running a sub 4.4 is considered elite speed.

 

[jterrell]

Production matters at the WR spot. That tells you that the player can get open.

And while I am not advocating Treadwell at 4 per se, what if your scouts put him there?

I keep reading people say "don't 'blow' the 4th pick in the draft on X player, they better be like All World player Y, if so."

The goal in any draft is to get the best player you can, for your team, in that draft.

It is not about just about thinking you are getting generational talents just because you pick high. Literally every draft has top 5-10 players that were labeled as sure things and the next "....". Does not always materialize.

Treadwell is a monster that will do quite well in the NFL provided he stays healthy.
There is really zero risk of him failing for lack of skill or athleticism. He's extremely young and already better than anyone else in this draft at the position by a fair margin.

Dallas has other ways to go that are arguably far better at pick 4 but Treadwell as a player is tremendous.
People knocking him based on agenda need a wake up call. He is a special prospect.

 

[jterrell]

When did I say Dez isn't a big time threat, a play maker or explosive? Once again, you're fabricating arguments just to argue. I simply said he's not a speed guy.

Dez, like Calvin Johnson, is an EVERYTHING guy.
He is big, fast and can catch.
He has been top 10 in receiving TDs the prior 4 seasons and was 1st by a good margin in 2014.
He is 24th in active yard per reception.
He has return TDs.

 

[Alexander]

Treadwell is a monster that will do quite well in the NFL provided he stays healthy.
There is really zero risk of him failing for lack of skill or athleticism. He's extremely young and already better than anyone else in this draft at the position by a fair margin.

Dallas has other ways to go that are arguably far better at pick 4 but Treadwell as a player is tremendous.
People knocking him based on agenda need a wake up call. He is a special prospect.

It is kind of odd that you have players like Treadwell and Elliott that seem very safe and you have tear downs because people desire something else "worthy of the 4th pick". See the same behavior from those that are pushing back on the idea of a QB there.

 

[RS12]

Only thing I would add to this is that much like Romo staying healthy, people are counting on Dez to stay healthy. Really not sure why. I never was interested in Treadwell at 4, but at the top of the second I would give it serious consideration.

 

[jterrell]

As you seem to always do, you're making up arguments. No one said a receivers needs to run a 4.3. Running a sub 4.4 is considered elite speed.

I posted actual factual data. PERIOD.

You are literally arguing with actual stats and historic record.
If you have an actual argument, make it. I'll likely refute it fairly easily but I made zero arguments here.
I merely presented facts.