Is a Manziel trade already in the works?

[Wrangler87]

Before this thread gets moved, it is a Cowboys related thread it just takes a minute to get there. Besides, there's nothing else very interesting going on right now.

I have been reading the comments all over the internet and I think a lot of people are very suspicious of the concussion symptoms that Manziel suddenly started having on Wednesday morning. A lot of people, trying to be funny, comment that it was more likely symptoms of a hangover from a recent drinking binge, and that's really funny, but I immediately had a different thought the first time I heard about the sudden symptoms and the real possibility that he will not play Sunday in the season finally against the rival Steelers. I think there is a possibility that there could be one of two different reasons for this, or a combination of the two, none of which have anything to do with concussions:

1. The Browns have already found a trade partner and Manziel is actually being pulled to keep him from being injured. Although technically a team can not agree to trade a player to another team after the trade deadline has passed, it happens a lot, just unofficially behind close door, and cannot actually take place until February. So who would be the most likely suitor, to be so obsessed with Manziel, that he would work on a deal to lock down Maziel before the season even ends. I think there would be only one man, Jerry Jones. We all know how bad he wanted Manziel in the 2014 draft. Ultimately, he was talked out of it by Stephen Jones, and Zack Martin was selected, a Pro Bowl Guard. I'm sure Jones doesn't regret picking Martin, but after watching our backup QB's play like rookie arena league players for several weeks, I'm sure he has been kicking himself to some extent. In the mean time, in spite of his off field issues, Manziel has looked really good, even exceptional at times. He has put up good numbers, visually progresses through his reads, makes time when the plays break down, and has moved the team rather well in the later part of the season. In short, he looks like a future franchise QB. He actually looks like a smaller, faster version of Tony Romo the way he keeps plays alive and finds the open man. If you don't see if you don't want to see it because even some of the most outspoken Manziel detractors on the network shows have admitted his obvious progress and game changing ability. I'm not the biggest Manziel fan in the world, but I have watched a lot of Browns games this year (I grew up in Ohio), and I have to admit, he looks better than I ever thought he would.

2. The Browns want to ensure they will lose Sunday. Because of Manziel's progress and recent play (including putting up 270 yards against Pittsburgh last month, I think the Browns may be worried that he could pull out a victory this weekend, knocking them out of the #2 pick. By playing Austin Davis, you assure a loss on Sunday. I know people will try to say NFL teams do not tank games, and I agree that the players would never, themselves, tank a game on purpose. They are putting up film and often times their careers and future contracts may depend on it. But you can't tell me organizations don't make moves, however subtle they may be, to increase their chances of losing games.

As stated above, there is also a possibility that it's a combination of both reasons. They either have a trade partner, are planning on trading him for sure, and know that it would hurt their chances of losing Sunday, keeping the #2 pick.

My case for the Cowboys trading for Manziel: Two months ago I would be against any thought of trading for Johnny Manziel. I didn't like his work ethic, his off the field behavior, and worried that his size and style of play would not work in the NFL. After watching him play this season, especially the last four or five weeks, I am no longer against the thought of trading for Manziel. I have been impressed with every aspect of his play at this point in his career and I think he will only get better. As I mentioned above, he looks like a smaller, faster version of Tony Romo. Even his play calling at the line of scrimmage has really progressed over the last few weeks. I think he could step in to the #2 QB role immediately, sit behind Romo and continue to learn, but be able to step on the field and win games immediately if Romo gets injured again, or God forbid, Romo pulls a Peyton Manning on us next season, which is not out of the realm of possibilities.

What other potential QB is out there that can fill that role? Who else can you go out and get for a 3rd round pick (which is what I think it may take) that can be developed into a possible future franchise QB, is so similar (skills wise) to the mold of the QB he is playing behind (Romo), and is still capable of coming in and winning games immediately? Certainly not a rookie first round pick, who will take two years to get to that point. There are no veteran free agents much better than Weeden or Cassel, unless you want Matt Moore, and who really knows what he is capable of nowadays (could be Brad Johnson). Maybe you could pull a trade for Tannehill or Kappernick, but is either of them really any better than Manziel at this point, certainly not over the last four weeks of their respective playing time.

As far as the off the field issues go, that would be something that I would certainly be concerned about. He has not officially been arrested that I can remember, but he has came close. The partying, especially in Texas, may pose an issue, but I think a lot of that could be taken care of as a part of a contract extension.

Besides, let's face it, if cell phones and the internet would have been around 30 years ago, people would be saying the same things about Kenny Stabler, Joe Namath, Terry Bradshaw, and Brett Favre, all Superbowl champion QB's. And those are only the players we know most about. I imagine there are countless NFL players who did a lot worse things than Manziel, but didn't have cell phones or the internet to capture any of it. Add to that, there is certainly speculation that Manziel really doesn't want to be in Cleveland and there are people who feel like the latest video was purposely produced to perpetuate a possible trade (if you watch the video, I could see why people are speculating on that). It all makes Sense. Dallas makes sense, in my opinion.

I know a lot of people in this forum will bash me and disagree with me for a multitude of reasons. Some reasons are certainly respectable, but some reason will simply be because people have a preconceived notion (like I did) and have not paid attention over the last four of five weeks. There will be some people that have not even watched him play lately that will say he sucks and will never make it in the NFL. Some people are Texas Longhorn fans that will have a problem accepting this possibility. I'm not saying I'm right but I certainly think it's something that should be considered, may have already has been considered, and may be going to happen. It's something we all may be forced to accept, like it of not.

Fire away.

 

[cds99]

Short and sweet reply. If they do then they are ******* idiots running this team. That dude is a joke of a qb. They better take the to pick and take wentz, lunch or Goff and be done with it.

 

[YosemiteSam]

HELL NO!

 

[big dog cowboy]

In short, he looks like a future franchise QB.

Perhaps in Arena football.

 

[Wrangler87]

Short and sweet reply. If they do then they are ******* idiots running this team. That dude is a joke of a qb. They better take the to pick and take wentz, lunch or Goff and be done with it.

Have you even watched his play the last four or five weeks? I mean, really watched the games?

 

[cds99]

Yea I have. Let me guess you like him because he runs for a 100 yards? He is a qb not a rb. Their the Damn ball instead of looking for the run all the time. He sucks and will be a terrible pickup, Mark it in your book.

 

[Killerinstinct]

I am not buying the concussion. He almost beat a superior Chiefs team last week with almost no help on the offensive side of the ball. They are in tank mode. If so, it is likely to have the choice of QB's in the draft.

Dallas doesn't need a rookie that has no shot of winning now and they don't need an older established vet that has reached his full potential and will never be Romo's eventual replacement.

They need a guy like Manziel. He is worth the early 3rd round pick allowing us to use two premium picks to address other needs with impact players.

Manziel has a great pocket presence and his mobility allows receivers to get open down field which leads to big plays. He also can get first downs with his legs. He is going to get better too but he is already ahead of any rookie we could bring in. He could win games now if Romo went down.

I hope Jerry Does it. It would not surprise me at all.

 

[Wrangler87]

Yea I have. Let me guess you like him because he runs for a 100 yards? He is a qb not a rb. Their the Damn ball instead of looking for the run all the time. He sucks and will be a terrible pickup, Mark it in your book.

That was the only game where he ran for 100 yards and a lot of that had to do with the fact that the Browns terrible O-Line were letting defenders come free. If you watched the games, you would see the way he goes through his progressions, finds the open when possible, and moves around the pocket, looking to throw before ever pulling the ball down to run, as the last resort.

I'm wasn't a Manziel fan, but I'm not afraid to admit when I was wrong. This guy will be a franchise NFL QB, as long as he cleans it up off the field.

 

[Wrangler87]

I am not buying the concussion. He almost beat a superior Chiefs team last week with almost no help on the offensive side of the ball. They are in tank mode. If so, it is likely to have the choice of QB's in the draft.

Dallas doesn't need a rookie that has no shot of winning now and they don't need an older established vet that has reached his full potential and will never be Romo's eventual replacement.

They need a guy like Manziel. He is worth the early 3rd round pick allowing us to use two premium picks to address other needs with impact players.

Manziel has a great pocket presence and his mobility allows receivers to get open down field which leads to big plays. He also can get first downs with his legs. He is going to get better too but he is already ahead of any rookie we could bring in. He could win games now if Romo went down.

I hope Jerry Does it. It would not surprise me at all.

I agree completely. I have been beyond impressed watching him play the last couple of weeks. The main thing he seems to struggle with is throws to the left, particularly slants. On two plays, he opened up his left foot too much before throwing the ball, which caused it to be behind the WR on both occasions. That's something that can be fixed by working on his footwork and repetition.

If Dallas landed this guy for a third, and he actually got to years to sit behind Romo, he would be more than capable of leading this franchise. More importantly, what if Romo comes out and his back gets injured again early? What if he ends retiring like Manning? Are we going to be set back two years by a Rookie making his first NFL start, a veteran backup who would probably perform like Cassell or Weeden, Orton at best?

I think Jerry has probably already been in contact with Cleveland. Manziel wants out of Cleveland, he loves Texas, and Jerry is obsessed with him. There is no better option that I can think of. In the last four weeks, Manziel has played better than both Mariotta and Winston, who people are calling future franchise QB's based on this year's play.

I wouldn't go as high as a second, but certainly a third and maybe a player (O-line...Leary).

 

[Killerinstinct]

I agree completely. I have been beyond impressed watching him play the last couple of weeks. The main thing he seems to struggle with is throws to the left, particularly slants. On two plays, he opened up his left foot too much before throwing the ball, which caused it to be behind the WR on both occasions. That's something that can be fixed by working on his footwork and repetition.

If Dallas landed this guy for a third, and he actually got to years to sit behind Romo, he would be more than capable of leading this franchise. More importantly, what if Romo comes out and his back gets injured again early? What if he ends retiring like Manning? Are we going to be set back two years by a Rookie making his first NFL start, a veteran backup who would probably perform like Cassell or Weeden, Orton at best?

I think Jerry has probably already been in contact with Cleveland. Manziel wants out of Cleveland, he loves Texas, and Jerry is obsessed with him. There is no better option that I can think of. In the last four weeks, Manziel has played better than both Mariotta and Winston, who people are calling future franchise QB's based on this year's play.

I wouldn't go as high as a second, but certainly a third and maybe a player (O-line...Leary).

I don't know if they can trade Leary since he is a RFA. The 3rd rd pick is a very early 3rd rd pick. Somewhere between the 3rd and 5th pick in the 3rd rd assuming they lose this Sunday. I am all for it. Any drafted QB doesn't even address the immediate concern of "what if Romo gets injured". Would still need to add another QB to come in if Romo went down.

Manziel is like a two for one. He gives you a chance to win now and he gives you a chance at being the future franchise QB.

 

[LandryFan]

Before this thread gets moved, it is a Cowboys related thread it just takes a minute to get there. Besides, there's nothing else very interesting going on right now.

I have been reading the comments all over the internet and I think a lot of people are very suspicious of the concussion symptoms that Manziel suddenly started having on Wednesday morning. A lot of people, trying to be funny, comment that it was more likely symptoms of a hangover from a recent drinking binge, and that's really funny, but I immediately had a different thought the first time I heard about the sudden symptoms and the real possibility that he will not play Sunday in the season finally against the rival Steelers. I think there is a possibility that there could be one of two different reasons for this, or a combination of the two, none of which have anything to do with concussions:

1. The Browns have already found a trade partner and Manziel is actually being pulled to keep him from being injured. Although technically a team can not agree to trade a player to another team after the trade deadline has passed, it happens a lot, just unofficially behind close door, and cannot actually take place until February. So who would be the most likely suitor, to be so obsessed with Manziel, that he would work on a deal to lock down Maziel before the season even ends. I think there would be only one man, Jerry Jones. We all know how bad he wanted Manziel in the 2014 draft. Ultimately, he was talked out of it by Stephen Jones, and Zack Martin was selected, a Pro Bowl Guard. I'm sure Jones doesn't regret picking Martin, but after watching our backup QB's play like rookie arena league players for several weeks, I'm sure he has been kicking himself to some extent. In the mean time, in spite of his off field issues, Manziel has looked really good, even exceptional at times. He has put up good numbers, visually progresses through his reads, makes time when the plays break down, and has moved the team rather well in the later part of the season. In short, he looks like a future franchise QB. He actually looks like a smaller, faster version of Tony Romo the way he keeps plays alive and finds the open man. If you don't see if you don't want to see it because even some of the most outspoken Manziel detractors on the network shows have admitted his obvious progress and game changing ability. I'm not the biggest Manziel fan in the world, but I have watched a lot of Browns games this year (I grew up in Ohio), and I have to admit, he looks better than I ever thought he would.

2. The Browns want to ensure they will lose Sunday. Because of Manziel's progress and recent play (including putting up 270 yards against Pittsburgh last month, I think the Browns may be worried that he could pull out a victory this weekend, knocking them out of the #2 pick. By playing Austin Davis, you assure a loss on Sunday. I know people will try to say NFL teams do not tank games, and I agree that the players would never, themselves, tank a game on purpose. They are putting up film and often times their careers and future contracts may depend on it. But you can't tell me organizations don't make moves, however subtle they may be, to increase their chances of losing games.

As stated above, there is also a possibility that it's a combination of both reasons. They either have a trade partner, are planning on trading him for sure, and know that it would hurt their chances of losing Sunday, keeping the #2 pick.

My case for the Cowboys trading for Manziel: Two months ago I would be against any thought of trading for Johnny Manziel. I didn't like his work ethic, his off the field behavior, and worried that his size and style of play would not work in the NFL. After watching him play this season, especially the last four or five weeks, I am no longer against the thought of trading for Manziel. I have been impressed with every aspect of his play at this point in his career and I think he will only get better. As I mentioned above, he looks like a smaller, faster version of Tony Romo. Even his play calling at the line of scrimmage has really progressed over the last few weeks. I think he could step in to the #2 QB role immediately, sit behind Romo and continue to learn, but be able to step on the field and win games immediately if Romo gets injured again, or God forbid, Romo pulls a Peyton Manning on us next season, which is not out of the realm of possibilities.

What other potential QB is out there that can fill that role? Who else can you go out and get for a 3rd round pick (which is what I think it may take) that can be developed into a possible future franchise QB, is so similar (skills wise) to the mold of the QB he is playing behind (Romo), and is still capable of coming in and winning games immediately? Certainly not a rookie first round pick, who will take two years to get to that point. There are no veteran free agents much better than Weeden or Cassel, unless you want Matt Moore, and who really knows what he is capable of nowadays (could be Brad Johnson). Maybe you could pull a trade for Tannehill or Kappernick, but is either of them really any better than Manziel at this point, certainly not over the last four weeks of their respective playing time.

As far as the off the field issues go, that would be something that I would certainly be concerned about. He has not officially been arrested that I can remember, but he has came close. The partying, especially in Texas, may pose an issue, but I think a lot of that could be taken care of as a part of a contract extension.

Besides, let's face it, if cell phones and the internet would have been around 30 years ago, people would be saying the same things about Kenny Stabler, Joe Namath, Terry Bradshaw, and Brett Favre, all Superbowl champion QB's. And those are only the players we know most about. I imagine there are countless NFL players who did a lot worse things than Manziel, but didn't have cell phones or the internet to capture any of it. Add to that, there is certainly speculation that Manziel really doesn't want to be in Cleveland and there are people who feel like the latest video was purposely produced to perpetuate a possible trade (if you watch the video, I could see why people are speculating on that). It all makes Sense. Dallas makes sense, in my opinion.

I know a lot of people in this forum will bash me and disagree with me for a multitude of reasons. Some reasons are certainly respectable, but some reason will simply be because people have a preconceived notion (like I did) and have not paid attention over the last four of five weeks. There will be some people that have not even watched him play lately that will say he sucks and will never make it in the NFL. Some people are Texas Longhorn fans that will have a problem accepting this possibility. I'm not saying I'm right but I certainly think it's something that should be considered, may have already has been considered, and may be going to happen. It's something we all may be forced to accept, like it of not.

Fire away.

Whether others agree with you or not, at least you put some thought into your post and laid it out in a coherent manner. The most valid point I thought you made was that he is young and has the possibility of being capable of winning as a near term backup while, at the same time, being a starter down the road. Personally, I want no part of him for three reasons, and none of them are tied to talent: One, he hasn't shown that he can be trusted...he lied to his coach about partying after being told to lay low and focus on football after being named the starter a few weeks ago...he couldn't stay away from partying for a damned week with his starting job on the line! Two, Austin (and College Station) is a lot closer to Dallas than Cleveland. If the temptations were that irresistible in Cleveland, what will they be in Dallas? Three (and this ties into the other two), he sure seems to have an issue with alcohol. I have a feeling that he will fight that demon for a while before (if ever) he gets it under control. Put all of that together, and you have a player you cannot count on. Admittedly, I could be wrong in my opinion and I hope, for his sake as a person, that I am. All that said, if he were to some how end up in Dallas, I would be rooting for his success like I would any other Cowboys player.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I doubt it.

He was a prospect that, ironically, the defensive coaches loved and the offensive coaches were averse to. At best, he was a 50/50 prospect because while he had some very positive traits, he also had some very negative traits that had nothing to do with his off-the-field issues. He is tiny by NFL QB standards, doesn't have a great arm and came from a college style scheme. He wasn't even clocked as a super fast QB (4.68 forty-time).

I don't think he's terrible. His WR's stink. But, he has shown that those on-the-field question marks are still a problem and I think those defensive coaches that loved him are now cool to him as a *player*.

Combine that with the off-the-field issues and Cleveland has zero leverage in this situation, I don't see it happening. They might get a 6th rounder for Manziel at best.

I remember Jerry saying long ago that he really doesn't take chances on players with drug/alcohol problems and I generally believe him.





YR

 

[cds99]

Our luck is dallas will use our first rounder on that geek

 

[Killerinstinct]

"Combine that with the off-the-field issues and Cleveland has zero leverage in this situation, I don't see it happening. They might get a 6th rounder for Manziel at best."

This is not true at all. The off field issues are minor and he is playing better than most realize. He is not a finished product by any means but he is way ahead of any rookie that could be brought in. He also has a very favorable contract. One that a team could afford even if they already have a franchise QB on the roster like Dallas does.

 

[LandryFan]

"Combine that with the off-the-field issues and Cleveland has zero leverage in this situation, I don't see it happening. They might get a 6th rounder for Manziel at best."

This is not true at all. The off field issues are minor and he is playing better than most realize. He is not a finished product by any means but he is way ahead of any rookie that could be brought in. He also has a very favorable contract. One that a team could afford even if they already have a franchise QB on the roster like Dallas does.

I wouldn't take the risk, but I understand the view of those that say we should. While it's true that his off-the-field issues haven't been anything major to this point in time, I'm afraid it's just a matter of time before those issues will become more serious. If he could be had for a fourth round pick, or later, I would give it serious consideration

 

[Doc50]

I am not buying the concussion. He almost beat a superior Chiefs team last week with almost no help on the offensive side of the ball. They are in tank mode. If so, it is likely to have the choice of QB's in the draft.

Dallas doesn't need a rookie that has no shot of winning now and they don't need an older established vet that has reached his full potential and will never be Romo's eventual replacement.

They need a guy like Manziel. He is worth the early 3rd round pick allowing us to use two premium picks to address other needs with impact players.

Manziel has a great pocket presence and his mobility allows receivers to get open down field which leads to big plays. He also can get first downs with his legs. He is going to get better too but he is already ahead of any rookie we could bring in. He could win games now if Romo went down.

I hope Jerry Does it. It would not surprise me at all.

I haven't liked the guy because he represents many of the things that are wrong with pro sports stars -- arrogance, egotism, materialism, immaturity, disrespect, etc.

But we all love a good redemption/rebirth story; this country has been about forgiveness and second changes since its inception.
JFB could be that guy...................if he wants to; if he realizes the error of his ways, and decides to be a positive role model.

There's no doubt that he has an uncanny ability to make plays, and his accuracy (especially on the long ball) is outstanding.

It could happen.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

I agree that Cleveland is in full tank mode, but ask your self this question, why would the coaches who see him practice everyday and know his work ethic be so inclined to start over with a new QB next year? Realistically speaking, there's no guarantee that they are even around when/if Lynch or Goff become successful NFL QBs. The truth is, Manziel has marginal NFL talent, he's clearly better than the Kellen Moore's and Brandon Weeden's of the world, but he hasn't even showed any reason for anyone to think he will maximize his talent. If Cleveland believed he had elite talent, they would not move on from him this soon, especially when he hasn't been arrested and has more or less just done stupid things. But it's clear to most people, that if he applied himself, he's likely no better than a middle of the road QB.

 

[Killerinstinct]

I haven't liked the guy because he represents many of the things that are wrong with pro sports stars -- arrogance, egotism, materialism, immaturity, disrespect, etc.

But we all love a good redemption/rebirth story; this country has been about forgiveness and second changes since its inception.
JFB could be that guy...................if he wants to; if he realizes the error of his ways, and decides to be a positive role model.

There's no doubt that he has an uncanny ability to make plays, and his accuracy (especially on the long ball) is outstanding.

It could happen.

Guys do grow up. Besides how would Meredith, Namath and Stabler do in this era where the tabloid media is all about trying to destroy people? Manziel drinks. O.K. So do I! Don't get me wrong, I grew up idolizing Staubach and he is about as solid of a human being as you could ask for and you never had to worry about character issues but Manziel has some skills and he is going to mature and he will get better. I like him better than any of the QB prospects this year and I really want to use our premium picks on some players that can contribute now.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

I like him better than any of the QB prospects this year.

even without his off field issues, Goff and Lynch look to be better prospects.

 

[Killerinstinct]

"Manziel has marginal NFL talent"

I hope he gets a chance to play on a team where he has a better supporting cast. I think he is playing about as well as a QB could in the situation he is in. Playing well enough that the team is afraid that if he plays, they will beat the steelers.