Is Dak a so-called bus driver?

[Diehardblues]

all pro is very different than probowl which is nothing but a joke any more. I mean the 4 starting QBs in the division championships don't go and those should be on top of the list.

I agree . And why I’m not referring to who is playing in the Pro Bowl. But rather who are named initially.

 

[OmerV]

I don't disagree, in fact I am in full agreement of those, that's where Dak lovers get their shorts tied up in a knot and continuously point to completion percentage, winning totals, 4th quarter comebacks,.. Aikman was known for his accuracy, ability to read and dissect a defense and where to put the ball. people forget He did have Michael Irvin, but Novaceck as much as we love him, wasn't a top echelon TE, until Aikman made him into what he was.....in AZ he was average. so that's one of my other points on elevating those around you....Aikman certainly did that with novacek.... as great as everyone made the OL to be, only one of them got into HOF...Aikman made them look great...a QB contributes to that. also he never really had a second WR that was worth their money....

First, can we get rid of this "lover" and "hater" nonsense? All things aren't to the extreme, and in fact rational discussion requires reasonable consideration of all sides, and labelling people that way puts up a wall against that. I know - there are people who only see extremes - on both sides of almost any issue, but the only way to combat that is for rational people to refuse to do the same.

As for the topic, it was never my intention to suggest Dak was on the same level as Aikman. He's not. My participation in this came up when I read a comment that Dak has to be a bus driver because he has too many sub 200 yard games, and my response was that yardage statistics can't fairly tell the whole story - like with Troy. A fan isn't fairly judging if they boil it down to one category like that and don't consider there are other factors that go into a QB's value. Some of those factors are intangible, and again, Troy is a prime example of that.

Novacek is a reasonable point to discuss, but even with that example it's hard to say how much was on Novacek being with Aikman, and how much was getting greater opportunity, and how much was Norv Turner, and how much was a different offensive scheme, and how much was having better weapons surrounding him that opened up more opportunities for him. His best yards per catch seasons were actually with the Cardinals, and I believe his TD's/reception ratio was better with the Cardinals, so maybe he just needed more starts and targets. There are a lot of factors that could go into that discussion.

 

[RoboQB]

You are naïve to buy into the definition you use for a bus driver. And I don't know who is telling you that Brees is a bus driver. A bus driver is a QB that works within a system to gain an advantage over the defense. Tom Brady is the greatest example there is of a bus driver. He was never considered elite until he became the bus driver in Bill Belichick's system. Which explains why he wasn't picked until the 199th overall pick in the 2000 draft.

Trust me. You're the one who is naive here.
Not to mention, your football ignorance.

I'm amazed at how many people don't understand the term 'bus driver' and yet double down
by creating their own definition... smh.

If you were in a room full of NFL people, owners, coaches and players, and you and your foolish buddies
claimed Drew Brees, Peyton Manning and Tom Brady were bus driver-type QBs, they would laugh in your faces.

 

[OmerV]

You are naïve to buy into the definition you use for a bus driver. And I don't know who is telling you that Brees is a bus driver. A bus driver is a QB that works within a system to gain an advantage over the defense. Tom Brady is the greatest example there is of a bus driver. He was never considered elite until he became the bus driver in Bill Belichick's system. Which explains why he wasn't picked until the 199th overall pick in the 2000 draft.

Every QB works within the system set up by the coaches, so I suppose you are saying all QBs are bus drivers?

 

[JoeKing]

Trust me. You're the one who is naive here.
Not to mention, your football ignorance.

I'm amazed at how many people don't understand the term 'bus driver' and yet double down
by creating their own definition... smh.

If you were in a room full of NFL people, owners, coaches and players, and you and your foolish buddies
claimed Drew Brees, Peyton Manning and Tom Brady were bus driver-type QBs, they would laugh in your faces.

Trust you? No thank you. You are wrong. Fine with me though, Keep showing your ignorance.

 

[JoeKing]

Every QB works within the system set up by the coaches, so I suppose you are saying all QBs are bus drivers?

Not every system is created equal. Only the ones that are proven successful season after season qualify as the bus. Belichicks system is most certainly the bus that carried the Pats to multiple championships and Tom Brady is it's driver.

 

[RoboQB]

Every QB works within the system set up by the coaches, so I suppose you are saying all QBs are bus drivers?

I have a board meeting to attend. Can you finish pounding this turkey into oblivion for me?
Tom Brady as a bus driver... pfft.

 

[OmerV]

Not every system is created equal. Only the ones that are proven successful season after season qualify as the bus. Belichicks system is most certainly the bus that carried the Pats to multiple championships and Tom Brady is it's driver.

So, all QBs with a history of success are bus drivers … that's fine if that's how you view it, that's just a different perspective than most have of what a "bus driver" is.

 

[OmerV]

I have a board meeting to attend. Can you finish pounding this turkey into oblivion for me?
Tom Brady as a bus driver... pfft.

I think he is just looking at it from a different perspective than others - that he views all QBs as merely running the system they are given, or "driving the bus". I don't think he is factoring in that not all QBs are created equal, and therefore some my be limited by a system, and some may elevate it.

 

[JoeKing]

So, all QBs with a history of success are bus drivers … that's fine if that's how you view it, that's just a different perspective than most have of what a "bus driver" is.

There are many kinds of QBs. Favre and Romo were gunslingers while Rodgers and Brees are surgeons with their accuracy. Then you have blood and guts QBs like Steven McNair and Vince Young. Bus drivers are QB's that are not considered all that good outside of the system that makes them good. Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer come to mind as QBs that had to "drive the bus" so to speak to win a SB.

 

[pansophy]

So he can drive a Ferrari and a bus! Nice

And hence the constant debate. He has been a player of extremes.

 

[OmerV]

There are many kinds of QBs. Favre and Romo were gunslingers while Rodgers and Brees are surgeons with their accuracy. Then you have blood and guts QBs like Steven McNair and Vince Young. Bus drivers are QB's that are not considered all that good outside of the system that makes them good. Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer come to mind as QBs that had to "drive the bus" so to speak to win a SB.

Why wouldn't Brady and Manning fall into the surgeon category? And why would we treat gunslinging and blood and guts as something that can enhance a system, and not give the same consideration to a QB who uses and runs a system like a well oiled machine, and is highly skilled in reading defenses and making the right decisions and the right throws. In all cases it's a QB using their particular skill set to enhance the system they are playing in.

With that said, it seems to me you've got a bit of a chicken/egg thing going. How do we know the success of the systems Brady and Manning play/played in didn't run so efficiently and effectively because they are/were the one's running it? Would the system run as efficiently and effectively with another QB? As for Manning, he left the system he was highly effective in with the Colts, and had 3 straight monster seasons in the Bronco's system, and was a major part of turning a team that hadn't had a winning season in 6 years into one of the elite teams in the NFL. Maybe it was the QB rather than the system in that case …?

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

First, can we get rid of this "lover" and "hater" nonsense? All things aren't to the extreme, and in fact rational discussion requires reasonable consideration of all sides, and labelling people that way puts up a wall against that. I know - there are people who only see extremes - on both sides of almost any issue, but the only way to combat that is for rational people to refuse to do the same.

As for the topic, it was never my intention to suggest Dak was on the same level as Aikman. He's not. My participation in this came up when I read a comment that Dak has to be a bus driver because he has too many sub 200 yard games, and my response was that yardage statistics can't fairly tell the whole story - like with Troy. A fan isn't fairly judging if they boil it down to one category like that and don't consider there are other factors that go into a QB's value. Some of those factors are intangible, and again, Troy is a prime example of that.

Novacek is a reasonable point to discuss, but even with that example it's hard to say how much was on Novacek being with Aikman, and how much was getting greater opportunity, and how much was Norv Turner, and how much was a different offensive scheme, and how much was having better weapons surrounding him that opened up more opportunities for him. His best yards per catch seasons were actually with the Cardinals, and I believe his TD's/reception ratio was better with the Cardinals, so maybe he just needed more starts and targets. There are a lot of factors that could go into that discussion.

agreed and perhaps its a reaction to the Dak "supporters" that attack anyone who criticizes Dak at any level....

and its not that he has to be a bus driver, I think to this point in his career he has been a bus driver. will he improve? no one denies that may happen. he is been given a good QB coach, who will work on his basic fundamentals which even dak supporters agree needs work. and its a generalization of overall ability..has he had great games? yes, the Giants game last year was great. he has had few here and there. but he has also had games he laid an egg and it was cracked!!!... and all QBs have those as well, this is not to say its singularly him...but good QBs have more good games than average games. they have less bad games than average games and generally elite ones and good ones, lift and elevate the players around them.

and I don't disagree, there is certainly the element of "match" and "fit" and seemingly Aikman and Novaceck fit. brady and gronk fit. room and witten fit. perhaps cooper and Dak fit.

the only other point, which I have repeated in response to many posters. saying Dak is average or ranks in the 12-15 range in the NFL is not a negative. we could certainly be in a worse situation. most get their shorts tied up in a knot as a result. there is this pushback and debate to paint Dak as an elite QB which fuels the threads about Dak.

 

[northerncowboynation]

And hence the constant debate. He has been a player of extremes.

IDK, what 3 year QB hasn't been.

 

[pansophy]

IDK, what 3 year QB hasn't been.

Mahomes

 

[northerncowboynation]

Mahomes

In my head I see lil Patty falling back to earth.... soon, real soon

 

[OmerV]

Mahomes

Of course there is only one year to judge from. He was pretty damn good in that one year though.

 

[northerncowboynation]

Of course there is only one year to judge from. He was pretty damn good in that one year though.

He was and I expect he'll fall to earth. The media loves building 'em up then tearing them down. Wait until he has a couple of Jonny rotten games. It's an Andy Reid coached team and Andy coached teams ALWAYS crap in the bed. Then it becomes, Mahomes can't win the big one. Can he drown it out?

 

[OmerV]

He was and I expect he'll fall to earth. The media loves building 'em up then tearing them down. Wait until he has a couple of Jonny rotten games. It's an Andy Reid coached team and Andy coached teams ALWAYS crap in the bed. Then it becomes, Mahomes can't win the big one. Can he drown it out?

He'll have his rough patches for sure, but I think he's good enough that he won't fall too far unless his team falls apart around him. And I say this as someone that watched him a lot in college and predicted he would be a bust in the NFL.

 

[JoeKing]

Why wouldn't Brady and Manning fall into the surgeon category? And why would we treat gunslinging and blood and guts as something that can enhance a system, and not give the same consideration to a QB who uses and runs a system like a well oiled machine, and is highly skilled in reading defenses and making the right decisions and the right throws. In all cases it's a QB using their particular skill set to enhance the system they are playing in.

With that said, it seems to me you've got a bit of a chicken/egg thing going. How do we know the success of the systems Brady and Manning play/played in didn't run so efficiently and effectively because they are/were the one's running it? Would the system run as efficiently and effectively with another QB? As for Manning, he left the system he was highly effective in with the Colts, and had 3 straight monster seasons in the Bronco's system, and was a major part of turning a team that hadn't had a winning season in 6 years into one of the elite teams in the NFL. Maybe it was the QB rather than the system in that case …?

I suspected it so but this post confirms it. You just want to argue. You act like you don't get that football in and of itself is a "system" that operates within a set of rules and that system is not the system I'm talking about when I talk about QBs playing within a "system". I'm talking about the coach's "system" like Belichick's system or Tom Landry's system. It includes how that team drafts players and how a practice runs. A system QB has to have accuracy and efficiency or the system won't work. But of course you knew that and just want to be difficult. When you say "Manning", I had to ask myself which Manning are you talking about? That got confusing until you specified he was with the Colts and then the Broncos.