Is Dak an elite Top 5 Quarterback?

[Johannes44]

heck no, he's elite

Is there another "elite" qb that gets 2nd in MVP voting assigned as a resume enhancer?

 

[Swagger]

Lol!!! Nah, its just the constant goal post moving is at an all time high with some of these people.

I don't like dealing in feelings, I like dealing in facts. For some reason, people don't like showing proof that we could see or read to back up their accusations. This is no lie.... I have never seen any quarterback in history get categories literally created JUST FOR HIM.

Example....

1. Dak is the first quarterback who has been a perennial top 10 player at his position, became an All-Pro and MVP candidate to be labeled below average and a bum.

2. Dak is the only quarterback I've ever seen that has been given a "garbage time stat" category for yards and points the offense gets while the game is still close.

3. Dak is the only quarterback i have ever seen being accused of benefiting from other team's injuries and weak schedules as the reason he's had his best seasons.

4. When it comes to Dak, the post season is his measuring stick of success.... but when I use that same measuring stick for the post season success of your Trent Dilfers, your Brad Johnsons, your Nick Foles and so on..... oh, its the team yada yada yada.....

5. Dak is the only quarterback accused of needing talent around him to succeed.... yet we currently have elite quarterbacks who have shown that they don't look as elite when their talent isn't playing up to par or injured. Nobody still haven't given me the names of quarterbacks that succeeded WITHOUT talent around him AND great coaching.

Its amazing that Dak is the first non elite 4th round drafted quarterback expected to do more than some 1st and 2nd round quarterbacks people consider elite.

These people are incredibly delusional and borderline mentally disabled. Im convinced we have the strongest posters on this forum than any sports forums in the world from years of moving those heavy *** goalposts around.

How many other quarterbacks in the NFL have had the following resources on offense over the past 10 years?

4 x All-Pro offensive lineman (at least 2 of them are likely to make the Hall of Fame)
3 x All-Pro wide receivers (one not with Dak but after he left the Cowboys with Josh Allen)
1 x All-Pro tight end (chance of making the Hall of Fame)
1 x All-Pro running back
6 x Pro-Bowl offensive lineman (one after leaving the Cowboys)
4 x Pro-Bowl wide receivers
2 x Pro-Bowl running backs
2 x Pro-Bowl tight ends
+ George Pickens and Javonte Williams will both at least make the Pro-Bowl this season.

In addition to having one of the best defender in the league over the past 4 seasons and other All Pros on defense. There has been talent on the defense during several seasons with Prescott as the quarterback.

I can't think of any other quarterback having the above talent on the offensive side of the ball and it wasn't for one or two years, Prescott has had talent throughout the entirety of his career.

Mic drop...

 

[Yobwocs]

Mentally disabled?
You are the one who is severely limited in that regard.

You do not seem to have a simple answer to why Cooper Rush (a practice squad quarterback), Andy Dalton (completed washed when playing for the Cowboys) and Dak Prescott in his peak all had very similar win/loss records for the Dallas Cowboys with the same coaching and the same roster?

Cooper Rush has since joined the Ravens and has struggled to win a quarter let alone a game yet Lamar Jackson has won countless games with the same coaching and the same roster.

There are really only two possibly conclusions.

1. The Dallas Cowboys have had a strong roster whilst having Rush, Dalton and Prescott as quarterbacks hence the similar win/loss records.

2. Dak Prescott is not a game changing, play making quarterback who can win a few games each season as one should if being paid $231 million in guaranteed money over 4 years.

Which one is it?

If it's #1 then Dak Prescott has underachieved with the roster at his disposal. Therefore, he is not an elite quarterback.

If it's #2 then Dak Prescott is not an elite quarterback and his contract severely knee caps the Cowboys to construct a Superbowl winning quarterback.

Either way, guess what...Dak Prescott is not an elite quarterback and as a result his contract is killing the Cowboys' chances.

Your argument makes no sense

Cowboys are 21-12-1 with Dak in the last 3 years. .632 winning percentage. Without him, we're 4-5. .444 winning percentage. Goes down by .200 percent.

In the similar timespan, Bengals are 17-15 with Burrow in the last 3 years. .531 winning percentage. Without him, they're 5-11. .313 percentage. Roughly what you would expect when your franchise Quarterback goes down in both instances.

 

[khiladi]

"Okay buddy, hold the L you lost"

Loss what? What are you, 12, 13 years old? Tell me how i loss?

Someone originally made a statement that Dak got outplayed by the Vikings "rookie" quarterback. That doesn't make sense because Dak and their quarterback don't play against the same defenses. Hopefully you're smart enough to understand that right?

Well I told that person, by their logic, Dak outplayed two elite quarterbacks in Hurts and Mahomes.

Do you understand what led up to what I said now, or do you believe you won something or whatever talking about "holding an L".....

Oh, I definitely won. The Cowboys beat the struggling Eagles and Chiefs. Those are facts...

Vegas didn't think the CHiefs wouldn't make the playoffs, but they were wrong. So they thought the Chiefs would beat the Cowboys, but they were wrong. So your example of Vegas says nothing. Further, the empirically demonstrated fact is the Chiefs were not good this year, which is why they didn't make the playoffs. So you are wrong.

The Eagles are mediocre and were playing like garbage when Dallas beat them. The scores I listed proved it. SO what if Dak outplayed Hurts, as the empirally demonstrated facts are that the Eagles offense was playing like absolute dog doo. SO Dak beating an offense putting up 10 pts and 7 pts in the previous games proves what I said, as you wetre wrong again.

Plenty of QBs have outplayed Hurts and Mahomes this year, going by your new standard. Which would mean that these QBs liek Dak are elite and top 5 according to your standards.

You see how it works. Whatever you say to defense your boy is complete garbage. WHat is true though is the Eagles and the Chiefs are NOT the same team as last year and were playing and are playing mediocre football.

Those are the facts and like I said, you lost. So hold the L again..

 

[Johannes44]

Which would mean that these QBs liek Dak are elite and top 5 according to your standards.

I love how they use those games but would never dare use the Chicago game where the offense got shut out in the second half.

 

[khiladi]

I love how they use those games but would never dare use the Chicago game where the offense got shut out in the second half.

Dak still can't even win on the road. Putting up numbers at home against bad defenses, but losing to the Bears on the road and in must win games.

 

[Yobwocs]

I love how they use those games but would never dare use the Chicago game where the offense got shut out in the second half.

Because that's a game in week 3 that's been forgotten by most people.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

Because that's a game in week 3 that's been forgotten by most people.

How convenient. Can't say I blame them.

 

[Swagger]

How convenient. Can't say I blame them.

 

[acr731]

Your argument makes no sense

Cowboys are 21-12-1 with Dak in the last 3 years. .632 winning percentage. Without him, we're 4-5. .444 winning percentage. Goes down by .200 percent.

In the similar timespan, Bengals are 17-15 with Burrow in the last 3 years. .531 winning percentage. Without him, they're 5-11. .313 percentage. Roughly what you would expect when your franchise Quarterback goes down in both instances.

His argument made perfect sense. You didn't like it because it goes against what you want everyone to think. You think Dak is elite and damn it to hell, not everyone is going along with you.

How boring would this thread be if everyone agreed with you and said that Dak was elite? It certainly wouldn't be pushing 700 posts. Just making it past 1 page would have been an accomplishment.

 

[Swagger]

Your argument makes no sense

Cowboys are 21-12-1 with Dak in the last 3 years. .632 winning percentage. Without him, we're 4-5. .444 winning percentage. Goes down by .200 percent.

In the similar timespan, Bengals are 17-15 with Burrow in the last 3 years. .531 winning percentage. Without him, they're 5-11. .313 percentage. Roughly what you would expect when your franchise Quarterback goes down in both instances.

You are counting wins from different seasons i.e., different teams and different coaches which isn't an accurate picture.

Look up the record of games Dak Prescott, Andy Dalton and Cooper Rush started and finished games in the same seasons...

From memory Dalton had a higher winning % (with a weaker offensive line) whilst Rush was very similar to Prescott.

 

[Swagger]

I'm not explaining this basic point again. People simply refuse to open their eyes due to their delusional devotion to Dak Prescott.

Anyone reasonable and objective with an open mind would take on board the information.

 

[Yobwocs]

I'm not explaining this basic point again. People simply refuse to open their eyes due to their delusional devotion to Dak Prescott.

Anyone reasonable and objective with an open mind would take on board the information.

The reasonable and objective people are no more than 10 or 11 devoted anti Dak guys here. Its the same 6 general people doing this.

I've never heard anyone claim Rush and Dak are similar outside this board. Maybe trolls but that's it because trolls say anything.

As I say, 21-12-1 with Dak last 3 years. Without him 4-5. A decrease of .200 percent points.

Bengals 17-15 with Burrow last 3 years. Without him 5-11. Decrease of again..., .200, give or take a few insignificant differences.

 

[Swagger]

The above post is very revealing. Even more so than I thought. Mahomes has always played better in the play offs and at times it seemed like the Chiefs were experimenting during some games in the regular season ahead of the play offs. They are of course a well coached team as well so they have been well placed to sneak wins during the regular season without Mahomes. As mentioned Hurts started in a bad Eagles team which hurts his win/loss ratio but you can see how much of a difference Allen and Jackson make to their teams. Burrow has played on some bad teams especially defenses where they would lose regardless of his efforts.

 

[Swagger]

The Dak Prescott fans will frantically try to bat it away as too small of a sample size or some other reason yet the reality is that he just isn't a difference maker. He really does go as far as the team takes him.

 

[Swagger]

Nobody is claiming Rush and Dak are similar level of quarterbacks but their win/loss records during the same season are similar.

You have cherry picked the stats which is far more favourable than the actual record of when he, Rush and Dalton all played several games during the same season which is more relevant.

Any way let's just go by lifetime regular season games where context is questionable as the strength of the roster isn't taken into account when the starting quarterbacks went down.

Burrow (25% difference)
With: 41-32-1 (55%)
Without: 7-16 (30%)

Jackson (41% difference)
With: 76-29 (72%)
Without: 5-11 (31%)

Allen (44% difference)
With: 86-38 (69%)
Without: 1-3 (25%)

Rodgers at Packers (34% difference)
With: 147-75-1 (66%)
Without: 6-12-1 (32%)

Mahomes (23% difference)
With: 94-27 (78%)
Without: 11-9 (55%)

Tua (24% difference)
With: 46-32 (59%)
Without: 7-13 (35%)

Herbert (34% difference)
With: 50-42 (54%)
Without: 1-4 (20%)

Goff at Lions (34% difference)
With: 47-31 (60%)
Without: 5-14 (26%)

Hurts (26% difference)
With: 55-25 (69%)
Without: 3-4 (43%)

Stafford at Rams (36% difference)
With: 45-26 (63%)
Without: 3-8 (27%)

Prescott (10% difference)
With: 82-53-1 (60%)
Without: 13-13 (50%)

Pretty damning reading for Dak Prescott fans out there. The closest quarterbacks to him are Mahomes with 3 rings and Hurts with 2 Superbowls including 1 ring plus he started off in a horrible Eagles team which really brings down his winning %.

Dak Prescott is not a difference maker. He's not a game changer. Kirk Cousins with better PR

 

[Davidlee1973]

No

 

[Dorsett33]

No question about it he's a top 5 QB

 

[Dorsett33]

Nobody is claiming Rush and Dak are similar level of quarterbacks but their win/loss records during the same season are similar.

You have cherry picked the stats which is far more favourable than the actual record of when he, Rush and Dalton all played several games during the same season which is more relevant.

Any way let's just go by lifetime regular season games where context is questionable as the strength of the roster isn't taken into account when the starting quarterbacks went down.

Burrow (25% difference)
With: 41-32-1 (55%)
Without: 7-16 (30%)

Jackson (41% difference)
With: 76-29 (72%)
Without: 5-11 (31%)

Allen (44% difference)
With: 86-38 (69%)
Without: 1-3 (25%)

Rodgers at Packers (34% difference)
With: 147-75-1 (66%)
Without: 6-12-1 (32%)

Mahomes (23% difference)
With: 94-27 (78%)
Without: 11-9 (55%)

Tua (24% difference)
With: 46-32 (59%)
Without: 7-13 (35%)

Herbert (34% difference)
With: 50-42 (54%)
Without: 1-4 (20%)

Goff at Lions (34% difference)
With: 47-31 (60%)
Without: 5-14 (26%)

Hurts (26% difference)
With: 55-25 (69%)
Without: 3-4 (43%)

Stafford at Rams (36% difference)
With: 45-26 (63%)
Without: 3-8 (27%)

Prescott (10% difference)
With: 82-53-1 (60%)
Without: 13-13 (50%)

Pretty damning reading for Dak Prescott fans out there. The closest quarterbacks to him are Mahomes with 3 rings and Hurts with 2 Superbowls including 1 ring plus he started off in a horrible Eagles team which really brings down his winning %.

Dak Prescott is not a difference maker. He's not a game changer. Kirk Cousins with better PR

Lol...this is how you judge a QB? I guess Warren Moon was garbage as well. And I guess defense, special teams, and coaching doesn't play a factor....lol. Ok

 

[Swagger]

Lol...this is how you judge a QB? I guess Warren Moon was garbage as well. And I guess defense, special teams, and coaching doesn't play a factor....lol. Ok

It's a comparison between most of the so called top 10 quarterbacks in recent years under the modern rules which favour quarterbacks and offenses.

The irony is that you mention coaching and special teams when I thought the Cowboys have been poorly coached over the past 10 years according to a lot of people? If they are poorly coached then it's weird as there isn't too much difference in winning % between Dak and the back up quarterbacks...and many people claim the rosters have not beem strong which would mean they haven't been able to carry the back up quarterbacks...maybe Dak just isn't that important

Of course I wouldn't solely judge a quarterback on these stats but isn’t it odd/interesting that Dak is the only name who is no where near making a 20%+ difference between himself and the backup quarterback...