Is T.0. over the hill?

[EPL0c0]

he's over the hill 'til his next big catch then he's ok 'til his next drop or missed opportunity

 

[BIGDen]

I've had this discussion many times before and stayed up all night debating to no end. I'm not about to have another. His importance to the offense won't be realized by some until he is no longer with us drawing double teams. I'm off to bed but feel free to continue. I'll read it in the morning...

What's there to debate? We both agree that he's great. I think he's a Hall of Famer actually. Are you unable to also admit that he has questionable hands, doesn't always fight for the ball, and has not been a good team player many times throughout his career? He tries to publicly humiliate Garcia, then McNabb, then Garrett/Romo. Complains about his touches even after a win (which is supposedly the most important thing to him). He would rather celebrate how HE wants to regardless of the fact that it will cost the TEAM a 15 yard penalty. Those things are all ok? I've read many of your posts and I have yet to see you acknowledge both sides. Do you really feel TO's actions are just fine and the media makes it up or whatever? OR do you not acknowledge any of his many warts because you feel it would weaken your argument or something? I think you know the answer.

 

[Shake_Tiller]

Nice try in disguising this post as "objective." Your anti-Owens attitude shines through...I'd venture a guess you're as anti-Owens as any poster here.

What is it that you think he's lost? He has ALWAYS dropped passes. In fact, this year is his least drop-prone season in quite some time.

He's never been a great route runner.

If you don't think he's faster this year than he was last year, you're blind.

To engage in mindreading, intriguing a proposition as it might be, is to entertain the most pretentious mental arrogance. The old man with the wild gray hair might have just thought, "That's it! E=MC2. I'm sure of it." The blue-haired lady in the rose dress: "Oh my, can't have that going through my head..." The wild-eyed, raven-haired head-banger in the black leather and bleached jeans: "Must hurry to be on time for the geometry final." Or any one of them: "Man, I could really go for a Bonus Jack with a double order of fries."

A feature of the enthralled: Brook no dissent. "The young lady, beautiful certainly, cannot carry a tune." The lovelorn wields angrily. "Sir, I must ask you to step outside so that I can thrash you hither and yon!"

It is reaching to expect, in response to any and every comment, fresh, challenging argument and engaging conversation. Is it too much, though, to hope for a response absent ad hominem attack and banal assertion?

The wideout has always dropped the ball, therefore he cannot have begun to lose some skill. The wideout has never run good routes, ergo one cannot now offer as evidence of erosion a poor route.

The poster does not agree with me. Surely he is not merely mistaken. No! He has an agenda. He is a hater. He is, by definition, a bad person.

 

[McCordsville Cowboy]

He's still a good player, but he's not worth the trouble any longer. He hasn't lost a step? Watch the first Commander game where he was bottled up down the stretch. Steve Smith draws a lot of double coverage, but he still produces.

He's no longer elite. And his attitude will get worse as his skills continue to erode.

Steve Smith also has a QB that focuses on him , not his TE.

 

[Spectre]

There is NO doubt T.O. is over the hill.
He's peaked and he's not improving. His game is declining.
The very definition of "over the hill".

 

[Apollo Creed]

If Owens went to the Patriots next year, you'd see how over the hill he is. He is going to be a force for 3 more years.

Subtle signs of aging are showing, but there aren't many guys that I would still take over him. Michael Crabtree would be one though.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

Brad Johnson = Over the Hill

Terrell Owens = Playmaker

 

[Bleu Star]

Brad Johnson = Over the Hill

Terrell Owens = Playmaker

Nuff said in this ridiculous thread.

 

[Batman]

If he was over the hill, why is he the focus of defenses and always double teamed?

 

[JordanTaber]

To engage in mindreading, intriguing a proposition as it might be, is to entertain the most pretentious mental arrogance. The old man with the wild gray hair might have just thought, "That's it! E=MC2. I'm sure of it." The blue-haired lady in the rose dress: "Oh my, can't have that going through my head..." The wild-eyed, raven-haired head-banger in the black leather and bleached jeans: "Must hurry to be on time for the geometry final." Or any one of them: "Man, I could really go for a Bonus Jack with a double order of fries."

A feature of the enthralled: Brook no dissent. "The young lady, beautiful certainly, cannot carry a tune." The lovelorn wields angrily. "Sir, I must ask you to step outside so that I can thrash you hither and yon!"

It is reaching to expect, in response to any and every comment, fresh, challenging argument and engaging conversation. Is it too much, though, to hope for a response absent ad hominem attack and banal assertion?

The wideout has always dropped the ball, therefore he cannot have begun to lose some skill. The wideout has never run good routes, ergo one cannot now offer as evidence of erosion a poor route.

The poster does not agree with me. Surely he is not merely mistaken. No! He has an agenda. He is a hater. He is, by definition, a bad person.

Somebody's trying too hard. That read more like a quote from Yoda or Mr. Mr. Miyagi than one from a non-fictional, educated, articulate individual.

I'd respect you a lot more if you just came out and admitted that you don't like him, period.

 

[Shake_Tiller]

You are assuming, here, I suppose, that I crave your respect, which is a broad stretch on your part. Actually, I like Owens. I don't think he's always received a fair shake in the press. He's been a great football player. He's done some terrific things for the Cowboys. I do think his skills are beginning to erode, and I do not think he will handle that at all well. On balance, I suspect the Cowboys would be better served to move on. That opinion has nothing to to with whether I "like" Owens. I also thought the Cowboys were better served to move on near the end of Emmitt Smith's career, and he was among my all-time favorite Cowboys.

Trust me on this, my friend: I don't need to try particularly hard. You aren't exactly a Stanford level debater.

 

[Bleu Star]

You are assuming, here, I suppose, that I crave your respect, which is a broad stretch on your part. Actually, I like Owens. I don't think he's always received a fair shake in the press. He's been a great football player. He's done some terrific things for the Cowboys. I do think his skills are beginning to erode, and I do not think he will handle that at all well. On balance, I suspect the Cowboys would be better served to move on. That opinion has nothing to to with whether I "like" Owens. I also thought the Cowboys were better served to move on near the end of Emmitt Smith's career, and he was among my all-time favorite Cowboys.

Trust me on this, my friend: I don't need to try particularly hard. You aren't exactly a Stanford level debater.

Please provide examples of instances where it seemed his skills were beginning to erode. I need some help with that one if you don't mind. All I see is a WR at the top of the league again in TDs that still commands a double team/extra attention/rolled safety to help. I also see someone that scores at will when put in position to do so.

Swap TO with Steve Smith (Panthers) and he goes off. Just in case you hadn't noticed, the Panthers offense is very dynamic and they set everything up with the run. You never see Steve Smith lines up in one place twice. The guy is always on different sides of the ball, going in motion, etc... That's called good offensive coordination.

Now go back and look at the number of times TO is simply run out to the right side. Subtract from that the number of times he lines up in the slot or goes in motion and I bet money the original number doesn't change much at all. It's pathetic and I blame most of it on regression by Jason Garrett and the lack of a good tutor in Romo's ear. Mostly Garrett...

A WR can only do so much... The OC and QB have so much more control over who goes where, who lines up where, and who gets the ball.

Now back to your all access TO blame party.

 

[5Countem5]

If he was over the hill, why is he the focus of defenses and always double teamed?

Now, now Batman...

It's bad form to go throwing facts around in someone's rant/troll thread.

 

[goshan]

Lets make sure we save this thread, because when TO is out of football in 2010 those who claimed his skills weren't starting to erode in 2008 will look plain silly.

Specific example of skill erosion were already cited:

1. Lateral quickness - clearly demomonstrated by decreasing YAC on short pass patterns and ability to get off the line when someone is playing tight LOS coverage
2. Overall agility - clearly demonstrated by ability to make adjustments to the ball to get in position to catch it


Again, anyone who does not think a 35 year old RCVR is 'past his prime' is either (1) living in denial or (2) has some other agenda or (3) is incapable of understanding human anatomy.

Which is it for you?

 

[Bleu Star]

Lets make sure we save this thread, because when TO is out of football in 2010 those who claimed his skills weren't starting to erode in 2008 will look plain silly.

Specific example of skill erosion were already cited:

1. Lateral quickness - clearly demomonstrated by decreasing YAC on short pass patterns and ability to get off the line when someone is playing tight LOS coverage
2. Overall agility - clearly demonstrated by ability to make adjustments to the ball to get in position to catch it


Again, anyone who does not think a 35 year old RCVR is 'past his prime' is either (1) living in denial or (2) has some other agenda or (3) is incapable of understanding human anatomy.

Which is it for you?

Unfortunately for you, not everyone sees things the way you do.

No one can predict 2010/11 but conventional wisdom would say that at age 37 TO will have definitely seen his better days.

In 2008/09 TO is clearly still outperforming a wealth of WRs in the league and still at the top of his game.

 

[5Countem5]

When you see teams openly insulting TO like they have Harrison and designing coverages in which they hope he gets the ball- then you'll know he is over the hill.

 

[Coakleys Dad]

When you see teams openly insulting TO like they have Harrison and designing coverages in which they hope he gets the ball- then you'll know he is over the hill.

really? I think youre reaching. He does drop balls. But he has not been put in situations to succeed enough this year. That of course has to do with the oline not protecting well enough to let the routes develop but I think he has 2 more great years left in him. Too many fly & post routes this year..not enough motion & routes going across the field letting him catch in stride and create YAC.
Hate on if you wish....

 

[5Countem5]

really? I think youre reaching. He does drop balls. But he has not been put in situations to succeed enough this year. That of course has to do with the oline not protecting well enough to let the routes develop but I think he has 2 more great years left in him. Too many fly & post routes this year..not enough motion & routes going across the field letting him catch in stride and create YAC.
Hate on if you wish....

Dude- reread my post and think about what I am saying.

 

[Bleu Star]

When you see teams openly insulting TO like they have Harrison and designing coverages in which they hope he gets the ball- then you'll know he is over the hill.

really? I think youre reaching. He does drop balls. But he has not been put in situations to succeed enough this year. That of course has to do with the oline not protecting well enough to let the routes develop but I think he has 2 more great years left in him. Too many fly & post routes this year..not enough motion & routes going across the field letting him catch in stride and create YAC.
Hate on if you wish....

I think you were both saying the same thing.

 

[Coakleys Dad]

sorry. I dont defend him much in all the threads even though i like him, its just at this point he does drop some balls but romo and the oline need to step up and red jesus needs to put ALL the playmakers in positions to make plays. Just frustrating when EVERYTHING bad is T.O.s fault. Happy holidays.