It's about time this secondary starts producing

[Future]

I would take Heath over Church right now..
What the hell has happened to Barry ?

He was never good.

 

[Shatz88]

I think we found a Safety in B Jones we just need another Safety and a CB that along with QB and WR would be my priorities in the upcoming draft

I agree and would add RB to the priority list as well.

 

[Ring6]

maybe Carr and Claiborne start keying on the three step drop like Bucky describes http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...-dbs-using-potent-technique-to-generate-picks

 

[gimmesix]

Am I the only one who thinks the secondary hasn't been that bad?

We played pretty good defensively the first two games, didn't have a pass rush because of injuries the next two games and were doing well against the Patriots until they started picking us right and left.

 

[Zordon]

I would take Heath over Church right now..
What the hell has happened to Barry ?

He's slow. Our entire secondary is slow.

It seems like we've been watching this BS now over 20 years, our DB's let interceptions hit them in the hands/numbers and drop them EVERY TIME. Now there's probably some exceptions out there(Dion Sanders, Newman) but growing up watching Everson Walls and Michael Downs, I don't remember them ever dropping one. Maybe it was my imagination.

It's frustrating man. 20 years of average to poor secondary play. In the offseason I would get rid of the coach and the scouts responsible for this mess. I don't trust anyone in the organization when it comes to drafting for the secondary. For example: they took Marcus Peters completely off their draft board...the rookie has 3 interceptions already on the season.

 

[dbonham]

Am I the only one who thinks the secondary hasn't been that bad?

We played pretty good defensively the first two games, didn't have a pass rush because of injuries the next two games and were doing well against the Patriots until they started picking us right and left.

No, the secondary will be fine once the pass rush stops getting gassed by half time

 

[ScipioCowboy]

maybe Carr and Claiborne start keying on the three step drop like Bucky describes http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...-dbs-using-potent-technique-to-generate-picks

In recent history, the Cowboys have not had the pass rush to be aggressive on short routes. If the corner cheats on the short stuff but the wide receiver goes long, you're screwed if the pass rush doesn't get there.

With Hardy and Gregory, things might be different.

 

[LocimusPrime]

Junk is as junk does. That what my momma always said.

 

[xwalker]

Personally, I'm done with all of them: Church, Wilcox, Mo, and Carr...particularly Carr. His body language reminds me of Newman in his final seasons.

That being said, starting Sunday - no more excuses for this secondary. Sunday they'll have the entire front 7 healthy and causing chaos in front of Eli. It's about damn time we see these guys cause some turnovers. They have one interception on the season. 2 total for the defense, only the London/Jacksonville Jaguars have less. The Broncos have 3 interception TOUCHDOWNS - Dallas native Aqib Talib has 2 TDs on his own. He's getting paid like Carr and actually earning his money.

When the ball is thrown at you, catch it. Show some instincts and confidence by jumping a route or two. Safeties need to be ballhawks...when Eli throws it up to the heavens, MAKE A FREAKING PLAY. Expecting our offense to sustain 80-85 yd drives consistently is not realistic. Cause turnovers, shorten the field, and watch the offense improve.

People over focus on mistakes by Safeties. The biggest problem with the Safeties in terms of tackling has been that more players in front of them have been missing tackles. Most people don't notice when LBs, CBs and DL miss tackles because there is normally someone behind them to clean it up; however, once it gets to the Safeties, there is more open field and a missed tackled can result in a huge play. Church has missed some tackles but not really more than have been missed at other positions. Wilcox has been decent. As a single high Safety he will always be in some difficult positions in terms of being in position on pass coverage. Sometimes they have the deep Safety cheat to one side based on who is playing CB or the offensive tendencies. That eventually results in the deep Safety being out of position. The deep Safety is also very dependent (especially in this scheme) of the LBs and CBs playing within the scheme. The deep Safety is coached to expect those other players to react in specific ways and to base his angles on what those players are expected to do within the scheme. If those players in front of him deviate from the scheme, it will cause him to appear to be out of position and to have taken a terrible angle.

I think part of the reason that all of the defenders have had some struggles with tackling is because they changed the scheme a bit this year. They use a lot more man coverage now which puts players in different positions in terms of defending the run or tackling receivers after the catch. Also, they've tried to generate more pass rush in some games (Falcons, Saints) by using methods that can result in getting gashed by the run. They've been gashed by the run or pass to the RB when they've blitzed and they really got gashed due to having he DEs rushing wide. In the past they often had the DEs in more of a controlled rush avoiding the wide up-field rush; however, this season before Hardy came back they were not getting enough pressure or turnovers an tried to do things to generate those. In the 1st half of the Falcons game they had Lawrence rushing wide up-field which they didn't do much last year. They usually like to have that LDE rush in more of a straight line to the QB in order to maintain some amount of run contain without actually having to read and react.

I did a review the critical failed defensive plays in both the Falcons and Saints games and the Safeties didn't show up that often in terms of being at fault. I define critical fails as 3rd/4th down conversions allowed and plays over 12 yards as well as scoring plays that could reasonably have been prevented (i.e. I don't worry about a TD when it's 1st down at the 1 yard line and it's a run because the probability of the defense getting a TD in that situation is high).

Tacking by the CBs really needs to improve. People think that Claiborne has really improved, but he showed up on the critical fails in the Saints game way more than anyone else. Also I think one reason they have struggled with the pick plays so much is that in years past when they tried to mix up coverage to combat the pick play, Claiborne almost always made the wrong decision and he and Scandrick would end up covering the same player. Scandrick could then be seen yelling at Claiborne and trying to explain what he should have done. This year they're trying to keep it very simple for him with straight man coverage; however, that makes them susceptible to the pick plays because offenses know that they won't mix up the coverage.

The bottom line is that it would be nice to upgrade the Safety position possibly by moving Wilcox into the box and putting a guy like Jones deep, especially if Jones can catch the ball when an INT comes to him; however, in general the Safety play often looks worse than it really is just because that's the nature of that position and how is looks from the TV broadcast view.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

Junk is as junk does. That what my momma always said.

Did your momma work in the junkyard?

 

[dallasdave]

It may be time to make Jones a starter !!

 

[morasp]

If offenses are going to run these pick plays the defense should make the guy throwing the pick pay start punishing them.

 

[The Natural]

Am I the only one who thinks the secondary hasn't been that bad?

We played pretty good defensively the first two games, didn't have a pass rush because of injuries the next two games and were doing well against the Patriots until they started picking us right and left.

The only thing that hasn't been that bad about the secondary is they aren't really getting beat deep.

I've been harping on this for years, but the technique among our corners..generally speaking, has been horrible. And it has withstood different coaching regimes. For all the slack Mike Jenkins catches for 2010, he was the only corner to come here in a long time that seemed to have the presence of mind to understand that in order to make plays on the ball you have to see it coming. What I'm seeing most of the time from Patmon/Claiborne is them in the trail position with their back to the QB, and Carr just lacks speed. He's almost always just coming out of his break when the ball is delivered. I want to see guys follow the eyes of the QB and then make plays on the ball

 

[KJJ]

You would have to go back to the mid 90's to find the last time the Cowboys had a solid secondary. It's been the #1 problem area with the defense for almost 2 decades. We've had no consistency back there. The lack of a solid pass rush hasn't helped the secondary.

 

[Idgit]

Am I the only one who thinks the secondary hasn't been that bad?

We played pretty good defensively the first two games, didn't have a pass rush because of injuries the next two games and were doing well against the Patriots until they started picking us right and left.

No, but you gotta pick your battles. I have no issues with our CBs, overall. We're pretty deep, and everybody plays at a decent minimum level. Especially considering our best CB is out for the year entirely. Mo has been a huge surprise this season, and he's not getting much credit in this thread for it.

The Safety play has not been very good, and tackling--which had been a relative strength recently--has not been good enough. But even there, we've got Jones with a world of potential, and Wilcox is a good athlete. Church is not bad all-around, he's just got severe limitations to part of his game in coverage.

Overall this season defensively, we've gotten burned in ATL when we couldn't handle containment and everybody tried to overcompensate. We had some trouble in NOLA when we were down a couple LBs and it affected communication. We haven't gotten our takeaways, generally, and that's really hurt us pretty bad. Beyond that, though, the breakdowns haven't really been isolated to one position group.

But it's the back-end of the bye week coming off of the first 3 game loss in 5 years. People are going to complain about every single thing they can think to complain about, and the secondary is just one of those things.

 

[rockj7]

I agree and would add RB to the priority list as well.

Shatz Im holding out so much hope for that RB from LSU he can't come out till 17' that's why I didn't put RB I know bro wishful thinking on my part

 

[rockj7]

Yup. Jones looks to be the real deal. I love the way he handled Gronk.

with a off season of weight training I believe he will be even better plus having a year under his belt along with being a smart guy we may have a secondary leader in the making

 

[CATCH17]

Face it folks. Our entire secondary is very average. Since there was a comparison to the Broncos, name any one of our starting safeties or corners that would start right now in Denver. My money is on none.

I feel like we do a good job of making good secondary talent look average.

 

[Bleu Star]

I feel like we do a good job of making good secondary talent look average.

Can't dispute that. You could have a point there.

 

[dallasdave]

He was never good.