James Hanna vs Gavin Escobar?

tm1119

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All I know is that the 2nd round pick that was supposedly by far the best player on the board better be able to win playing time over last years 6th rounder who could barely get on the field. I'm guessing that if the organization felt as good about Hanna as everyone here seems to Escobar wouldn't have been the pick in the 2nd round. Love Hanna's athleticism, but there obviously has to be some serious flaws in his game for him to be 6th rounder pick, and then struggle to get on the field over the like of Phillips. I'm going to assume he can't block and doesn't like the physical part of the game.
 

pacboyX

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tm1119;5089622 said:
All I know is that the 2nd round pick that was supposedly by far the best player on the board better be able to win playing time over last years 6th rounder who could barely get on the field. I'm guessing that if the organization felt as good about Hanna as everyone here seems to Escobar wouldn't have been the pick in the 2nd round. Love Hanna's athleticism, but there obviously has to be some serious flaws in his game for him to be 6th rounder pick, and then struggle to get on the field over the like of Phillips. I'm going to assume he can't block and doesn't like the physical part of the game.

My point..James Hanna got bigger and may have improved physically to make a better blocker this year.. Romo had to gain trust in his hands, idk how well Escobar will be at diagnosing defenses vs Hannas second year..should be interesting when pads get on

I mean how many years did Phillips play with Romo?
 

Eskimo

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tm1119;5089622 said:
All I know is that the 2nd round pick that was supposedly by far the best player on the board better be able to win playing time over last years 6th rounder who could barely get on the field. I'm guessing that if the organization felt as good about Hanna as everyone here seems to Escobar wouldn't have been the pick in the 2nd round. Love Hanna's athleticism, but there obviously has to be some serious flaws in his game for him to be 6th rounder pick, and then struggle to get on the field over the like of Phillips. I'm going to assume he can't block and doesn't like the physical part of the game.

Hanna has the strength but definitely needs to work on his technique and pad level if he wants to become a more effective inline blocker.

As for the complaints of him not seeing the field much last year, he was a 6th rounder and most of them have major flaws in their games that have to be fixed for them to be productive at the next level. Hanna was a great athlete but was not a great football player at OU for whatever reason. The scouts saw enough in him to make them think he could be converted into an effective NFL player. Every team passed on him 5 times even though he had by far the best Combine of any TE. Heck, he may have had the best Combine performance of all the players there on the athletic measurements tested. He was very dominant for his position - actually outdid many CBs. So there much have been some pretty significant holes in his game for him to fall that far even though he came from a big program and had elite athleticism.

As for Escobar, my own thoughts are that he was picked because he was a BPA at that point of the draft (allegedly ranked in the low 20s on our board) for us. He was majorly downgraded after the Combine because of a poor 40 but did well on other drills. Since he was supposedly a big WR type TE he got pushed all the way down into 2nd-3rd draft proejctions whereas he was a 1st rounder in many mocks before the Combine - much like TFred. I suspect the real reason Escobar was selected here wasn't because of worries about whether Hanna could be an effective 2nd TE. I think he was chosen because the staff feels Witten's tenure as a dominant receiving TE may be happening in the next 2-3 years which means they need to groom a new #1 guy to take his spot in this offense which is very TE reilant. It is going to become even more TE-dependent than ever before after the renewed emphasis on the 12 personnel grouping.

I actually like the chances of both TEs. I think Escobar has a bit of Tony Gponzalez in him. I hope Hanna has a little Vernon Davis in him but that remains to be seen. I think they can be an effective trio with Witten that can cause nightmare matchup issues for DCs when they are on the field together so long as they can all become average blockers and for the opposition to keep LBs in the game to defend against the run. Whereas with MartyB the extra TE was usually a blocker and dumpoff receiver because of poor OL play and because Marty was never a reliable receiver, I think the intention is that this will be a balanced offense. Perhaps even one where we can go up-tempo and prevent DCs matching up with us for down and distance. It could be a more extreme form of what the Pats have been doing.

Anyhow, I think everyone will come to appreciate both of the young guys. Wes Philips has probably the biggest job to do on offense after the OL coach.
 

cowboyz

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Hanna reminds me of Dallas Clark. But maybe that's because he catches with his hands
 

speedkilz88

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Bryan Broaddus ‏@BryanBroaddus 5h
“@ThisisMacP: @BryanBroaddus who you think will have a breakout year for the cowboys?” James Hanna.
 

Deep_Freeze

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speedkilz88;5089880 said:
Bryan Broaddus ‏@BryanBroaddus 5h
“@ThisisMacP: @BryanBroaddus who you think will have a breakout year for the cowboys?” James Hanna.

I just wonder if he will see enough balls throw his way to make that happen. All of the TEs bring something different to the table, so it is nice to have them all here. Now it is up to the staff to use them correctly, which is something we do have to question based upon their past lately.

I do know I would rather have Escobar/Hanna out there more than any FB or #3 WR we have on the roster right now, so hopefully the staff will see this and do the right thing.
 

Sarge

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dmq;5088426 said:
Nothing wrong with having lots of depth.

Unless of course you have no semblance of an OL.

;)
 

Risen Star

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Sarge;5089917 said:
Unless of course you have no semblance of an OL.

;)

Right. There is something wrong with strengthening the bottom of your TE depth chart when it comes at the expense of a legitimate starting OL on a team so desperate for help there.
 

TheRomoSexual

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Risen Star;5089918 said:
Right. There is something wrong with strengthening the bottom of your TE depth chart when it comes at the expense of a legitimate starting OL on a team so desperate for help there.

Funny, didn't you just refer to all draft picks as "unknowns?" Now they can be unknowns AND legitimate starting olinemen?
 

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TheRomoSexual;5089933 said:
Funny, didn't you just refer to all draft picks as "unknowns?" Now they can be unknowns AND legitimate starting olinemen?

It's called projections. The same projections the team makes (badly over the course of the last nearly 20 years) we can make as fans.

Yes, I think it's a mistake to take Escobar in the 2nd round with some of the other players on the board at that spot that would have strengthened our trenches.

I saw it fail with Fasano. Saw it again with Bennett. I don't need to see the same movie three times to know the ending.

And I say all that to someone who never mentioned Escobar's name pre-draft. Now suddenly he was the no brainer pick there.
 

TheRomoSexual

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Risen Star;5089935 said:
It's called projections. The same projections the team makes (badly over the course of the last nearly 20 years) we can make as fans.

Yes, I think it's a mistake to take Escobar in the 2nd round with some of the other players on the board at that spot that would have strengthened our trenches.

I saw it fail with Fasano. Saw it again with Bennett. I don't need to see the same movie three times to know the ending.

And I say all that to someone who never mentioned Escobar's name pre-draft. Now suddenly he was the no brainer pick there.

That's fine, I'd rather be accused of silence than inconsistency.
 

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TheRomoSexual;5089938 said:
That's fine, I'd rather be accused of silence than inconsistency.

I don't care what I'm accused of when it's inaccurate.

Your "silence" had to do with you not thinking much of the player, or not even knowing who he was. But now he's the slam dunk right decision. I know the drill. This isn't my first rodeo.
 

TheRomoSexual

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Risen Star;5089940 said:
I don't care what I'm accused of when it's inaccurate.

Your "silence" had to do with you not thinking much of the player, or not even knowing who he was. But now he's the slam dunk right decision. I know the drill. This isn't my first rodeo.

Yes, referring to a draft pick as an unknown and a "legitimate starting lineman" is completely consistent.
 

Risen Star

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TheRomoSexual;5089956 said:
Yes, referring to a draft pick as an unknown and a "legitimate starting lineman" is completely consistent.

All draft picks are unknowns. The only thing you can do is project. Not me. Not you. Everybody. Including the teams. The Cowboys made a projection that Travis Frederick is a starting OL in the league. They don't know it yet.

I made those same projections. We all do. This is a silly discussion, to be honest. Nobody's got a problem with projections when they're positive. It's the negative ones you're supposed to sit on and then forget about if they're proven right so as not to live in the past.

I'd rather be the guy making those projections and sticking with them than the one who doesn't bother to mention a player's name before the draft but now is suddenly the biggest believer in his talent right after his team drafts him.

It's the Matt Johnson syndrome.

Getting back to my point, it was a mistake for the Cowboys to make Anthony Fasano/Martellus Bennett a trilogy rather than selecting a player who could strengthen either line. That was my stance before the draft, it's my stance after. Where a player gets picked means nothing to me. You should try it sometime.
 

TheRomoSexual

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Risen Star;5089966 said:
All draft picks are unknowns. The only thing you can do is project. Not me. Not you. Everybody. Including the teams. The Cowboys made a projection that Travis Frederick is a starting OL in the league. They don't know it yet.

I made those same projections. We all do. This is a silly discussion, to be honest. Nobody's got a problem with projections when they're positive. It's the negative ones you're supposed to sit on and then forget about if they're proven right so as not to live in the past.

I'd rather be the guy making those projections and sticking with them than the one who doesn't bother to mention a player's name before the draft but now is suddenly the biggest believer in his talent right after his team drafts him.

It's the Matt Johnson syndrome.

Getting back to my point, it was a mistake for the Cowboys to make Anthony Fasano/Martellus Bennett a trilogy rather than selecting a player who could strengthen either line. That was my stance before the draft, it's my stance after. Where a player gets picked means nothing to me. You should try it sometime.

And you should try to realize that there are more than 5 positions on a football team.
 

jobberone

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Eskimo;5089799 said:
Hanna has the strength but definitely needs to work on his technique and pad level if he wants to become a more effective inline blocker.

As for the complaints of him not seeing the field much last year, he was a 6th rounder and most of them have major flaws in their games that have to be fixed for them to be productive at the next level. Hanna was a great athlete but was not a great football player at OU for whatever reason. The scouts saw enough in him to make them think he could be converted into an effective NFL player. Every team passed on him 5 times even though he had by far the best Combine of any TE. Heck, he may have had the best Combine performance of all the players there on the athletic measurements tested. He was very dominant for his position - actually outdid many CBs. So there much have been some pretty significant holes in his game for him to fall that far even though he came from a big program and had elite athleticism.

As for Escobar, my own thoughts are that he was picked because he was a BPA at that point of the draft (allegedly ranked in the low 20s on our board) for us. He was majorly downgraded after the Combine because of a poor 40 but did well on other drills. Since he was supposedly a big WR type TE he got pushed all the way down into 2nd-3rd draft proejctions whereas he was a 1st rounder in many mocks before the Combine - much like TFred. I suspect the real reason Escobar was selected here wasn't because of worries about whether Hanna could be an effective 2nd TE. I think he was chosen because the staff feels Witten's tenure as a dominant receiving TE may be happening in the next 2-3 years which means they need to groom a new #1 guy to take his spot in this offense which is very TE reilant. It is going to become even more TE-dependent than ever before after the renewed emphasis on the 12 personnel grouping.

I actually like the chances of both TEs. I think Escobar has a bit of Tony Gponzalez in him. I hope Hanna has a little Vernon Davis in him but that remains to be seen. I think they can be an effective trio with Witten that can cause nightmare matchup issues for DCs when they are on the field together so long as they can all become average blockers and for the opposition to keep LBs in the game to defend against the run. Whereas with MartyB the extra TE was usually a blocker and dumpoff receiver because of poor OL play and because Marty was never a reliable receiver, I think the intention is that this will be a balanced offense. Perhaps even one where we can go up-tempo and prevent DCs matching up with us for down and distance. It could be a more extreme form of what the Pats have been doing.

Anyhow, I think everyone will come to appreciate both of the young guys. Wes Philips has probably the biggest job to do on offense after the OL coach.

Well written and thoughtful post. Hadn't thought of Escobar as a Gonzalez type. Hanna makes me think of Sharpe except faster. If the OL can block a bit better in the run esp the right side and give Romo more snaps to play catch then we will be more productive. Add in some better RZ scoring and TOs for shorter drives and we can score 25-30 a game.
 

jobberone

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Taking Escobar and Williams in the 2nd and 3rd is a good move if you believe you have to score more to win. People here keep saying the same things over and over like a mantra about the OL and some players. I say go look at the stats to go with your eyes.

The left side of the OL got some reasonable results running. The right side not so good. Neither were average but the left closer. Look at the sacks and hits then pressures. Take a look at the passing results and then the scoring. We need improvement esp in the run game on the right side of the line but we're not that far off. We need to increase scoring 3-5 pts a game and hope the health of the D gets us back to 20 or less.

I don't see those goals as unattainable because we didn't draft another offensive lineman. We should get better center play for sure this year. If someone steps up at G that may be enough. It isn't unreasonable to think that one of Leary, Ski, Bernie, yada gives us good enough G play.

I think Escobar and Hanna will give the team more balance and create better matchups than we have had in awhile. Add in Williams who gives you some true depth at the X and Z as well as speed and you should be able to score the points we need to get to the next level.
 

speedkilz88

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Risen Star;5089918 said:
Right. There is something wrong with strengthening the bottom of your TE depth chart when it comes at the expense of a legitimate starting OL on a team so desperate for help there.
The Cowboys picked at 47, the next OL wasn't picked until 65. The whole nfl didn't see any legitimate starting OL available. Broaddus has said repeatedly the guy taken at 65 wasn't even a OL that Callahan liked.
 

xwalker

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speedkilz88;5089995 said:
The Cowboys picked at 47, the next OL wasn't picked until 65. The whole nfl didn't see any legitimate starting OL available. Broaddus has said repeatedly the guy taken at 65 wasn't even a OL that Callahan liked.
Good point.
 

tm1119

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speedkilz88;5089995 said:
The Cowboys picked at 47, the next OL wasn't picked until 65. The whole nfl didn't see any legitimate starting OL available. Broaddus has said repeatedly the guy taken at 65 wasn't even a OL that Callahan liked.

The good teams that were picking behind us also don't have Livings, Bernadeau, and Parnell/Free starting on their line. With the exception of probably Hugh Thorton who I wasn't crazy about the next 6 or 7 lineman would at least be making a strong push to start for us by the end of the season.
 
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