News: Jason Garrett: From lame-duck Cowboys coach to secure leader

[CowboysFaninHouston]

You sir are delusional.

Coach trying to build a good team? Well no kidding.

Rebuild the OL and DL? Well no kidding it was awful.

But you can bet your *** Ryan Shazier and a few others are a Cowboy and not Martin had the Cowboys had it their way on draft day.

Also, how do you know we didn't stick to the plan with Wade?

Garrett has Will McClay picking guys for him and that seems to be making more of a difference then when Wade was here and Garrett was personally requesting Felix Jones be the pick.

of coruse they wanted Shazier, because he was ranked higher on their board. they didn't want to trade up to get him because the price was probably too high. few years ago they thought enough of mo Claiborne to trade up to get him. they were wrong about him of course.

so did they settle for Martin. yes. just like all the other teams below cowboys settled for the players they got...what's the difference?

and we had no plan under wade, so there was nothing to stick too. it was some of the worst draft years ever in cowboys history. proof is in the pudding.

and btw, this maybe news to you, but every team in the NFL has a group called scouting. they scout players, rank them, evaluate them...you know that kind of stuff. and after the season as they prepare for the draft they all work together, with coaches, GM, etc. and make a board and rank the players and discuss draft scenarios and strategies.

so will mcclay may head scouting, but so does every other team. I doubt if bill billicheck scouts players, coaches and game plans all by himself.

but then again, I am not sure how much you know since you are putting this out and sounding like you have no idea how an NFL team is run

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

We took best player available but these comments about Garrett envisioning this are ridiculous.

he did have a vision. vision of rebuilding the OL, DL, changing the culture. but that's too much for you to digest. because every coach has a vision. some are good, some are not. some can make it happen. some don't. some are idiots like wade who failed everywhere they have been.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

No.. You're not using common sense.

Dallas selected Frederick and Martin because that is how the draft fell to them.


It wasn't some vision that Garrett had in a dream that he brought to reality.

and that happens to 31 teams in first round after the first pick is made. right? or is that too much to digest for ya?

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Draft boards typically aren't all that picked over in the first round. Yes, I think both Martin and Frederick were guys we'd scouted and targeted. Of course.

It's irrelevant that other guys we'd scouted and targeted were also picked before we were on the clock.

ahh too much logic for him to understand how draft works.

 

[Idgit]

Im not faulting him.

Just pointing out the delusion some of you have that are saying Garretts plan all along was to build this Oline.

The draft fell that way for us but Guards and Centers weren't our top priority.

I credit Garrett and the Cowboys for picking them when their main targets were gone but I don't give Garrett credit for having this as some kind of master plan that he intended.

Stuff like this makes me wonder how you think teams go into the NFL draft. You don't think, say, Aaron Donald was drafted and the team just freaked out because his name was written on our Master Plan and so we just then picked a different name out of the hat, do you? Like somebody in the room is asking 'What do we do? This is not what we planned! Our plan was to take Donald, but it didn't occur to us that the Rams might have the exact same Master Plan. What do we do?" "Let's submit his name again and see if that works!" And then somebody else, McClay, maybe, is like 'no, that won't work, just pick somebody else. Is there a QB, or maybe a Right Guard we liked?" And then they're like, 'well, this Zack Martin guy is available, but we don't know much about him. Going RG at this point is not part of our Master Plan." But we panic and just do it anyway because that was the only name we could thing of. Because that's not how it works.

You don't sit down at the World Series of Poker with a plan to get a Royal Flush, either. You learn the game. Learn the probabilities. Work on your tells. You get dealt a hand, and you play it, trying to get the best possible combination of cards you can. You don't draw the card you need, you don't panic. If you end up winning the hand with a Straight or a Full House, you don't later punch yourself in the face because you master plan called for a Royal Flush. You take the money, be happy you won the hand, and keep playing the probabilities.

 

[waving monkey]

Wait a minute...

So you guys really think Frederick and Martin were our first options?

Are you joking...?

We settled for those players because all of our main targets had been picked.

17 maybe and I am not clear about the year we drafted Fredrick but maybe
we were going to draft a center that year. We certainly were in dire straights for a center.
All the no names we had on the offensive line. I believe we might of had Fredbeard in our sights
all along and took him where we felt safe that he would be there.
I call fowl on your claim about Fredbeard.

Martin yes but thats being a good draft master

 

[Idgit]

17 maybe and I am not clear about the year we drafted Fredrick but maybe
we were going to draft a center that year. We certainly were in dire straights for a center.
All the no names we had on the offensive line. I believe we might of had Fredbeard in our sights
all along and took him where we felt safe that he would be there.
I call fowl on your claim about Fredbeard.

Martin yes but thats being a good draft master

Not that it matters, but Jerry did say right after that pick that Frederick was the last Mohican of the OLs we'd evaluated as options for that pick where we took him. I do think the actual plan had an allowance that he might have been one of the players we ended up with.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

It's not irrelevant for this conversation because the plan wasn't to go build a great Oline. The draft fell that way.

no it didn't. he could have picked any other player than an OL man in the draft. in fact we have done that in the past. for example they could have picked Sharif Floyd, werner, Rhodes, dante jones etc. at the 23rd pick. But they didn't they traded down.

They picked Fredrick because they wanted a center and many said we reached for him. now they know why. they could have picked matt elam as we had safety need, or Zach ertz as we also picked a TE in the same draft...but they didn't. with a slew of players available to them. they picked Fredrick, who many called a reach.

 

[CowboyDan]

There's no question in my mind that this defense isn't where JG wanted it to be by now. You gotta play the cards you're dealt in the draft, FA and injuries, though. And Marinelli has done a bang up job of squeezing the most out of the unit.

 

[waving monkey]

no it didn't. he could have picked any other player than an OL man in the draft. in fact we have done that in the past. for example they could have picked Sharif Floyd, werner, Rhodes, dante jones etc. at the 23rd pick. But they didn't they traded down.

They picked Fredrick because they wanted a center and many said we reached for him. now they know why. they could have picked matt elam as we had safety need, or Zach ertz as we also picked a TE in the same draft...but they didn't. with a slew of players available to them. they picked Fredrick, who many called a reach.

Agreed and I penalize 17 3 points for cognitive dissidence ,

 

[CATCH17]

Stuff like this makes me wonder how you think teams go into the NFL draft. You don't think, say, Aaron Donald was drafted and the team just freaked out because his name was written on our Master Plan and so we just then picked a different name out of the hat, do you? Like somebody in the room is asking 'What do we do? This is not what we planned! Our plan was to take Donald, but it didn't occur to us that the Rams might have the exact same Master Plan. What do we do?" "Let's submit his name again and see if that works!" And then somebody else, McClay, maybe, is like 'no, that won't work, just pick somebody else. Is there a QB, or maybe a Right Guard we liked?" And then they're like, 'well, this Zack Martin guy is available, but we don't know much about him. Going RG at this point is not part of our Master Plan." But we panic and just do it anyway because that was the only name we could thing of. Because that's not how it works.

You don't sit down at the World Series of Poker with a plan to get a Royal Flush, either. You learn the game. Learn the probabilities. Work on your tells. You get dealt a hand, and you play it, trying to get the best possible combination of cards you can. You don't draw the card you need, you don't panic. If you end up winning the hand with a Straight or a Full House, you don't later punch yourself in the face because you master plan called for a Royal Flush. You take the money, be happy you won the hand, and keep playing the probabilities.

You know exactly what im saying.

Of course Zack Martin was a targeted player.

But Garrett wasn't sitting in his office for the last few years rubbing his grubby paws together thinking he was going to build this great oline.

The draft fell that way. End of. This wasn't planned so just accept that. Zack Martin was a fallback when the chips didn't fall the way the Cowboys had hoped.

Enough of this crap that Garrett planned to build this great Oline. It's BS.

 

[CATCH17]

and that happens to 31 teams in first round after the first pick is made. right? or is that too much to digest for ya?

Not to much to digest. Im clearly speaking to the people that say Garrett had this planned. You know that is who im speaking to as well so please save the dumb comments.

 

[CATCH17]

Before Garrett, Jerry would not have selected offensive linemen in the first round with those picks.

You have a short memory.

Fair enough. Everytime Jerry spoke about picking Olinemen though he spoke more about Romo begging for Olinemen and to get guys in front of him at guard and center that could keep the pocket more clean.

Also.. Say what you want about Jerry investing in the draft at Oline but Jerry has spent big money on Olinemen.

 

[CATCH17]

of course they weren't their first options. so let me educate you a little bit, so that may help you.

every team every draft evaluates players and ranks them and assigns them a draft grade for if they think they are a first round type player, 2nd, round, etc. every team also has needs to fill that they are aware of.

so cowboys do the same. usually they have 20-22 players ranked as a first round talent. btw, most teams are that way.

so after the first few picks, almost every team has to make a decision. do I keep my pick or move down and get more picks. depending on how each team ranked the players in that draft.

so cowboys having done so, picking 23rd and having Floyd available to them decided he is not a fit for their defense and what marinelli wants in a DL man, so they traded down. at 31, the player that was remaining and was rated highest on their board was Fredrick. so they picked him.

and tell me how this is any different for teams picking 25 and below. every team probably has targets that didn't get to them. but if you panic when a player you wanted doesn't fall to you and have no plan and having thought through, you probably will make the wrong choice.

so what you said above, is totally senseless, because its the fact in the NFL for all 32 teams. and you are using it to diminish the great things that garrett has accomplished because you are too thick headed to admit you are wrong, so you continue to make a fool of yourself, because you have dug in and you are not man enough to admit you are wrong. so minimally this board will have a fool to laugh at for a while. in the meantime we all enjoy the cowboys success while you stew in your anger of being wrong.

end of story.

Thanks for the unneeded education.

Im not talking about how teams evaluate players.

Im talking to the people that say Garrett had all of this premeditated. Get that crap out of here.

 

[CATCH17]

ahhh. we had a choice between smith and watts. and they had them ranked close and they needed both. He convinced jerry to take an OL as the corner stone of building his OL. the first time cowboys had ever taken an OL in the first round under jerry and in the top 10 ever.

and in any draft, if you are picking in the middle draft falls to you and you make your picks. you can either pick a johny manziel or Jones as a back up RB in the first. or you make the right pick. so you are faulting him for making the right pick. interesting angle.

Point to where I faulted him?

Im not giving him credit for the premeditated BS you guys spew.

This clown head coach of ours stumbles into drafting a good oline and you guys act like it was planned.

 

[Idgit]

You know exactly what im saying.

Of course Zack Martin was a targeted player.

But Garrett wasn't sitting in his office for the last few years rubbing his grubby paws together thinking he was going to build this great oline.

The draft fell that way. End of. This wasn't planned so just accept that. Zack Martin was a fallback when the chips didn't fall the way the Cowboys had hoped.

Enough of this crap that Garrett planned to build this great Oline. It's BS.

I honestly don't know at all what your'e saying. Of course we didn't know in advance which players would be at our picks, and of course we drafted the ones we thought were going to be the best for the team given our weaknesses and our other needs. I don't see how you can look at what the organization did from the second Jason Garrett got there and think they didn't have a plan to aggressively build the OL. It was at the forefront of just about everything they did the first few years. You don't just accidentally jettison your old expensive veterans and systematically replace them year by year with first round picks and stop-gap free agents. You look at where you think need might meet opportunity and you go from there. If your'e lucky, the board breaks right. If you're targeting DL and your best pick left is RG, you make that call and are happy about it. And then when the players you target, draft, and develop pan out, you get the credit. There's not really any other way of looking at it.

 

[CATCH17]

no it didn't. he could have picked any other player than an OL man in the draft. in fact we have done that in the past. for example they could have picked Sharif Floyd, werner, Rhodes, dante jones etc. at the 23rd pick. But they didn't they traded down.

They picked Fredrick because they wanted a center and many said we reached for him. now they know why. they could have picked matt elam as we had safety need, or Zach ertz as we also picked a TE in the same draft...but they didn't. with a slew of players available to them. they picked Fredrick, who many called a reach.

Dallas traded way down for Frederick after all of the players they wanted were gone and only chose him in the first round to get the 5th year option.

Sharif Floyd was never even an option for this team. They straight up didn't like him.

 

[CATCH17]

I honestly don't know at all what your'e saying. Of course we didn't know in advance which players would be at our picks, and of course we drafted the ones we thought were going to be the best for the team given our weaknesses and our other needs. I don't see how you can look at what the organization did from the second Jason Garrett got there and think they didn't have a plan to aggressively build the OL. It was at the forefront of just about everything they did the first few years. You don't just accidentally jettison your old expensive veterans and systematically replace them year by year with first round picks and stop-gap free agents. You look at where you think need might meet opportunity and you go from there. If your'e lucky, the board breaks right. If you're targeting DL and your best pick left is RG, you make that call and are happy about it. And then when the players you target, draft, and develop pan out, you get the credit. There's not really any other way of looking at it.

Ok so then we agree that Garrett did not have a premeditated plan to build this type of O-line?

We agree that the draft fell the way it did and because Frederick and Martin were the best available players left on our board then that is who we decided to select?

 

[casmith07]

This is where his strength is. It took 3 LONG years for Red and Jerrah to figure it out but it was pretty obvious to the rest of the world.

It was a process.

 

[dallasdave]

It was a process.

And the process will be complete this year when the Cowboys win the Super Bowl.