Jason Garrett - Where's the love?

[Sydla]

Anything less than a Superbowl is validation that there's a coaching/QB/ownership problem. That's just the way it is with fans. A significant subset will go with what's easy and not care about what's accurate. And there's no way to disprove it.

I’ve said numerous times, at this point I’d just take a NFCCG appearance to back off Garrett chatter. But he hasn’t even done that in 8 years.

He’s our Marvin Lewis and I no longer think it’s impossible that we could wake up 8 years from now and realize we just became the Bengals.

 

[Sydla]

Exactly.

You'll never get the idiots who think they understand football better than JJ, JG, and SL to understand your point. They are as dense as a black hole.

And yet here we sit, 23 years from our last SB and you want to try to argue that Jerry understands football? We haven’t even sniffed a conference champ game in 23 years. We have like 5 playoff wins in 23 years.

But yeah, you are right. Jerry is a genius.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

So, you think Vince Lombardi, Landry, Belichick....they were simply outcoached whenever they lost in the playoffs? You get that every coach loses games, right? Sometimes it's as simple as being beaten by a better team, or an untimely penalty or whatever.

I'm telling you that we got our ***** handed to us because the Rams were more healthy as a team, therefore had more energy and were able to out-muscle us. Did you see our injury report? Did you see theirs?

Oh, no doubt that every coach loses games, and the Rams (outside of Kupp) were healthier. I also think that lost quite a bit of momentum with that abysmal sack call on Dak. However, it's not just the Rams game. I also laid out 2 other games post-Cooper that I felt we were outcoached. Maybe I'm off base, but I think the Titans and Colts games were poorly managed. I also think that Garrett has had more than enough time to develop this team into a champion.

I will concede that he's had rotten luck for some seasons. I think we probably win the Superbowl in 2014 if not for that horrendous call. I think the suspension of Zeke was atrocious. However, I also think that Garrett and Linehan haven't quite used Dak properly. When Dak did scramble against the Rams, we were having success. Dak does well when he's has his share of the carries. Though, he doesn't seem to do it much. Surely, you must notice that he's not running the ball or quite as instinctive in that way as he was in 2016. When he does use his legs, our entire offence does better. I think Garrett and Linehan, therefore, could design the offence better to use this strength.

 

[Idgit]

The team was soundly outcoached. Their offensive game plan exploited and attacked a weakness repeatedly. It wasn't just a personnel problem, it was a scheme and game plan problem as well, one that we never adjusted to. Our players are not bad enough individually to give up almost 300 yds rushing without superior coaching to exploit it. It was also a matchup problem that their game plan created. It wasn't just a matter of their players being better, they game planned and put their players in position to be better. Maximize strengths and minimize weaknesses.

Agree to disagree. They did exploit some of our single-high limitations the same way the Colts did, but that's a matchup/personnel issue that people like to say 'the coaches need to adjust to that' and call a coaching issue.

The Rams marched up and down the field between the 20's on everybody this year. 44% red zone rate. At some point you need to take a step back and recognize that, if it's happening to Garrett and it's happening to ten of the 13 other coaches they played this year, maybe they're just a good offense.

We still only lost by 1 score. And had a chance to tie it up late on 4th and 1 when we failed to convert. Against a better overall football team in terms of talent. And, if you're right, vastly superior coaching.

If they had the huge advantage in terms of coaching, had us beat in terms of overall talent, were at home, had the extra week to study us on film as we were the only possible competitor they hadn't played at least once already, and didn't turn the ball over...well, they should have won that game by more than one possession. Right?

 

[Idgit]

LOL. So what obvious agenda do the national pundits have when the most prevalent conclusion is we got outcoached? It’s hilarious that you seemingly want to ignore the facts thrown out by analysts after the game. You refuse to acknowledge that the game tape shows how the Rams attacked us and we had zero answers for their game plan.

Yes the most obvious explanation is you are in the tank for him. You struggle to largely criticize him when it’s clear he failed or hold him accountable. Even when you throw a token criticism, there is a “but” in there somewhere.

It’s no bias here. It’s purely results driven. 8 years. 2 playoff wins. Three play off appearances.

Simply not good enough.

You think a lot of things are hilarious that aren't actually even funny. Maybe you just say that to try to make an argument sound better.

I can't think of a single reason why somebody would run an 'if it bleeds, it leads' article on the Dallas Cowboys. I guess you're just right.

You can want the coach gone all you care to. No NFC team has won more since Dak got here, finished with the best regular season record in the NFC two of the last five years. Won 3 of 5 NFCE division crowns, and doing it all with their hands tied behind their backs at QB, HC, and OC. It's like magic.

The issue in Dallas is figuring out how to advance deeper than the 2nd round of the playoffs. Those are the results that matter. You can holler to replace the HC all you want. The people who know better want him. At least one 'national pundit' came out and agreed with Jerry that JG would have had 5 HC gigs if he were a free agent. One of us is badly mistaken in their evaluation. Either I'm in the tank, or you don't have a clue. It's tough to say which is which.

 

[Sydla]

You think a lot of things are hilarious that aren't actually even funny. Maybe you just say that to try to make an argument sound better.

I can't think of a single reason why somebody would run an 'if it bleeds, it leads' article on the Dallas Cowboys. I guess you're just right.

You can want the coach gone all you care to. No NFC team has won more since Dak got here, finished with the best regular season record in the NFC two of the last five years. Won 3 of 5 NFCE division crowns, and doing it all with their hands tied behind their backs at QB, HC, and OC. It's like magic.

The issue in Dallas is figuring out how to advance deeper than the 2nd round of the playoffs. Those are the results that matter. You can holler to replace the HC all you want. The people who know better want him. At least one 'national pundit' came out and agreed with Jerry that JG would have had 5 HC gigs if he were a free agent. One of us is badly mistaken in their evaluation. Either I'm in the tank, or you don't have a clue. It's tough to say which is which.

So your answer is that criticism of the Cowboys game plan after the game was simply to get eyeballs?

You have an excuse for everything. Which points clearly to what is the correct answer to your last question.

The guy who has excuses for everything that could or has gone wrong is the guy not standing on solid footing.

 

[Big_D]

As JJ said yesterday, had JG been fired, it would have taken him a minute and a half to find a new job. Let's look at JG in an historical perspective. He was young (45) when he took the team over. He has a decent sample size of games coached to assess his career to date, so how does his winning percentage stack up with some of the greats of the game? It is worth noting that, aside from Belichick, no other coach had a HOF QB that was willing to leave over $100m on the table to help their team win.

Jason Garrett's win percentage is .566. That puts him either statistically tied (within 3%) or better than the following list of coaches:

Bill Parcells (HOF)
Chuck Knoll (HOF)
Dan Quinn
Marv Levy (HOF)
Mike Ditka (HOF)
Ron Rivera
Jimmy Johnson
Mike Shanahan

He's within striking distance of (all less than .600)

Pete Carrol
John Harbaugh
Mike Zimmer
Mike Holmgren
Hank Stram
Don Coryell

The point is that fans tend to look at the latest 'boy wonder' or some other nonsense and they think that:

1. These guys grown on trees
2. That these new coaches that have been successful in the short term will also be successful in the long term. That's FAR from a guarantee.

As an example, Cowboy fans LOVED Jimmy Johnson after he started winning, but there was some serious hate flowing through the Cowboys fan universe after his first two seasons. He had an amazing run with Dallas, then shuffles off to Miami and manages just one 10 win season in four years. He had 11 win and 13 win seasons and a Super Bowl in his first four years with Dallas and arguably started with a lesser team before the talent flowed in like a water fall. Much of that great talent was a product not necessarily of luck, but of being at the right place at the right time (move a draft pick one position and the results might have been radically different, or don't take a chance on a troubled player like Haley and we might have won no SBs during his tenure).

The point is this: Jason Garrett is not an elite coach yet, but he IS a damn good coach. You're free to think he isn't, but you'd be wrong.

The over/under for Dallas this year was 8 games. It will be 8 or 9 next year with the schedule we play. The NFL has structured their league for parity, so if a coach can dodge losing seasons in our current era, he's done a good job.

Pete Carroll had 2 winning seasons during his first 6 years.
Belichick was an awful coach before he got Brady.
Chuck Knoll (HOF) had ONE 10 win season in his last 12 seasons.
In the 3 comparable years during his coaching career (2016-18 for Garrett), Bill Cowher went 7-9, 6-10, 9-7 and only had one 12 win season before that. JG has had 2 seasons with more wins.

You'd be wise to thank the coaching gods that JG is our coach. I look forward to many wininng seasons with him at the helm.

Some just don't care about the playoffs.


Parcells 8-3 in his first 8 years with 2 championships.
Knoll 7-2 in his first 8 years with 2 championships
Dan Quinn 3-2 in 4 years with a Super Bowl appearance
Marv Levy played in 19 postseason games 4 Super Bowls, 5 championship games and won 2 championships in Canada
Ditka 5-4 with a championship in his first 8
Rivera 3-4 with Super Bowl appearance
Jimmy Johnson 2 championships in college, 2 in the pros, 7-1 in the postseason with the Cowboys. 2-3 in 4 years with Miami. lol
Shanahan 7-2 with 2 championships.

all in less time except levy.





Jason Garrett in 9 years 2-3. Nothing beyond the divisional round. I have no doubt a better coach can match these crap numbers and exceed them. Imagine that? Some really need to raise the bar or do their homework.

 

[Roadtrip635]

Agree to disagree. They did exploit some of our single-high limitations the same way the Colts did, but that's a matchup/personnel issue that people like to say 'the coaches need to adjust to that' and call a coaching issue.

The Rams marched up and down the field between the 20's on everybody this year. 44% red zone rate. At some point you need to take a step back and recognize that, if it's happening to Garrett and it's happening to ten of the 13 other coaches they played this year, maybe they're just a good offense.

We still only lost by 1 score. And had a chance to tie it up late on 4th and 1 when we failed to convert. Against a better overall football team in terms of talent. And, if you're right, vastly superior coaching.

If they had the huge advantage in terms of coaching, had us beat in terms of overall talent, were at home, had the extra week to study us on film as we were the only possible competitor they hadn't played at least once already, and didn't turn the ball over...well, they should have won that game by more than one possession. Right?

You're acting like we had a bad defense going into this game. We had limited other strong rushing attacks and the Rams didn't run freely just because their players are that much better. The gameplan to stop their run did not work, their coaches figured how to attack it, knew what our tendencies were, how to react to our formations. It took their players to execute the game plan and hats off to them, they did. It all started with their coaches and how they prepared for the game and how they prepared to attack us.

The Colts changed how they blocked at the LOS, they went from largely zone to man blocking to account for our LBs. Our coaches weren't prepared for that change, neither were the players and we struggled to adjust. Again, it wasn't simply that we got beat by the "matchups", we were beat by how they schemed to make those matchups happen.

Coaching matters.

 

[Captain43Crash]

That was another era. That’s not realty this era. This is who we are now.

Because of your boy, Garrett!!

 

[aria]

Pretty sure all those coaches had a real GM and more control over player/personnel decisions. Most likely no coach would have a lot, if any playoff success, with the way Jerrah runs this circus. Lets see, the only two HC’s that were highly regarded since Jerrah bought the team were ironically bot coaches who made their own personnel decisions, Jimmy and Bill.

 

[Diehardblues]

Because of your boy, Garrett!!

Because of Jerry’s agenda. Garrett is just a product of it.

 

[atlantacowboy]

The only love Jason needs is Jerry's. Our owner literally loves him more than winning.

 

[slomoxn]

Jimmy Johnson wasn’t hated so much for losing; I’m sure everyone around or old enough at that time will admit it was time for Landry to go. It was the way he was let go the po’d everyone, so honestly short of walking on water the two double j’s We’re going to catch hell. It wasn’t him winning alone, it took a whole lot of us getting over it too. BTW winning helps a whole hell of a lot though.

 

[TakedisDAK]

Yeah. I heard that. And heard what Garrett had to say about it in response. I think both are pretty credible. Teams look for tells, both by formation and by looking at the players. Teams self-scout the same way and both teams go into games with things they want to try. It's not exactly news that they thought they saw some things on offense to exploit. I'm sure we felt the same way.

The Rams were definitely prepared for us, which is what you'd expect from a good coaching staff and a good team with a first round bye. That game still was very much in reach up until the 4th and 1. This wasn't a run-away playoff loss. And the issues we had in the running game were more than just the OL getting a quick start because they guessed the game that was coming properly. They had our guys on skates. That was the actual issue for the defense.

Then again, we knew going in that this team got into the red zone on 44% of their possessions all season. That doesn't happen unless you have a lot of really good players. It's an insane red zone rate. Our fans who thought we'd smother their offense are guilty of wishful thinking. Or ignorance. This game was always going to come down to red zone defense and takeaways. We didn't take it away, and we didn't stop them enough in the red zone.

Did you hear Jg response to the question when they asked him "what did he think he needed to work on??"
Nothing but Deflection and not answering the question. That was a perfect opportunity for him to be authentic instead we get .."oh a million things " followed by "gibberish deflection nonsense yada yada"
Smh

 

[Diehardblues]

The only love Jason needs is Jerry's. Our owner literally loves him more than winning.

Jerry tried winning championships with Jimmy. He didn’t like it.

 

[atlantacowboy]

Jerry tried winning championships with Jimmy. He didn’t like it.

I used to think that Jerry wanted to win more than anything........he just wanted more credit. I've come to understand that being proven right about garret has superceeded winning.

 

[Diehardblues]

I used to think that Jerry wanted to win more than anything........he just wanted more credit. I've come to understand that being proven right about garret has superceeded winning.

Yeppers ... it’s always been more about Jerry than the Dallas Cowboys.

And he wants to prove he’s right about Dak too.

 

[Direwolf63]

The thread title should not be "Jason Garrett - Where's the love?"

It should be "Jason Garrett - Where's the accountability?"

 

[Direwolf63]

I used to think that Jerry wanted to win more than anything........he just wanted more credit. I've come to understand that being proven right about garret has superceeded winning.

Correct.

Mediocrity is good enough for this organization.

Jerry being comfortable is paramount.

One Wild Card win every 4 or 5 years is all that is required for Garrett to be HC for life.

 

[Rayman70]

I don't have all the answers dre11, but here is what we DO know... He hasn't cut the mustard getting this team where it needs to be,which is the SB. Its been 10 years man! lol...Guess stranger things have happened, but it sure seems like change would be way overdue in this case at the hc and oc. I wouldn't mind Bob Stoops or promoting Ben Bloom or Kris Richard to HC.