Jason Garrett - Where's the love?

[Supercowboy1986]

 

[mrmojo]

So what is the plan then, for those who think were headed in the right direction. How many more years do we give JG, 3, 10, 20? If 3 years from now we are in the same position we are now, do we move on? 8 years is a long time and I'm very frustrated because I grew up expecting championships, the Boys didn't always get there but we were always in the mix. Now were just the butt of jokes.

 

[Rayman70]

So what is the plan then, for those who think were headed in the right direction. How many more years do we give JG, 3, 10, 20? If 3 years from now we are in the same position we are now, do we move on? 8 years is a long time and I'm very frustrated because I grew up expecting championships, the Boys didn't always get there but we were always in the mix. Now were just the butt of jokes.

the plan is wash rinse repeat until everything is F.U.B.A.R.

 

[Beast_from_East]

This game is, and always will be about personnel. In the playoffs, it’s personnel and matchups, because the talent level evens out when you get to the top 12.

I’m all for getting an all-time great anything, so if a guy like Belichick becomes available, by all means, nab him. But, failing that, the smart thing is to work on the talent.

Which we’ve done a much better job of under Garrett. No, he didn’t stumble into a Dick Lebeau defense. We’ve had to build from the ground up. Turns out this organization is pretty dang good-but not great-at assembling talent. Which explains the pretty dang good-but-not-great results we get.

Fans don’t want to hear it. Fans want to change the HC and change the QB. Fans are mostly pretty stupid. But just because a mob is going somewhere doesn’t mean you need to grab your pitchfork.

Dont remember you giving the other coaches a pass that got let go. Why didnt the others get 10 years like your boy?

And no, the fans are not stupid for wanting more than a pair of Wildcard wins over a decade.

Just because you are happy with being mediocre, dont call out the rest of Cowboy nation for not.

 

[RD21]

Wrong forum bro. This is the Cowboys forum, not the Browns......……..we dont measure success here by regular season wins, we use playoffs as the measuring stick.

Whats your boy's winning percentage in the playoffs compared to Belichick, Knoll, Landry, Cowher, Carroll, ect…..

After a decade, were these coaches still trying to get past the divisional round?

My favorite post of the year so far..!! I literally spit my drink on my screen laughing......hahahahaha

I agree 100%

 

[Idgit]

Dont remember you giving the other coaches a pass that got let go. Why didnt the others get 10 years like your boy?

And no, the fans are not stupid for wanting more than a pair of Wildcard wins over a decade.

Just because you are happy with being mediocre, dont call out the rest of Cowboy nation for not.

Depends on the coach. I would have kept Parcells, though he didn't outperform Garrett and he was more frustrating than Garrett in my opinion in a lot of ways. He was also a really good coach.

Campo? He was a terrible coach. Wade wasn't terrible, but he couldn't assemble a team and we drafted poorly under him as a result. I wasn't in favor of his hiring, and it was time to go when he was fired. Gailey was a decent coach, but he clashed with Aikman. That's what got the coach fired in GB this season. I didn't like him enough to keep him. Switzer was a cool dude and a better coach than given credit for, but he still wasn't very good. His hire was a joke, overall.

So really, it's more accurate to say Garrett is the only HC candidate I've ever had to go out on a limb for. I did it for Zimmer, too, when he was DC (and was right about that one, too). My track record when I go against the mob is pretty good. Because I don't really dig in on a topic unless I think the mob is foaming at it's mouth and wrong.

 

[Idgit]

Did you hear Jg response to the question when they asked him "what did he think he needed to work on??"
Nothing but Deflection and not answering the question. That was a perfect opportunity for him to be authentic instead we get .."oh a million things " followed by "gibberish deflection nonsense yada yada"
Smh

Yeah. That's one of the things I really like about JG is that he never gives the Dallas media a thing to bite on. When Wade was here, he had beat reporters telling him to his face they could do a better job coaching the team than he could. It was embarrassing.

The Dallas media smells blood and they run with it. So Garrett frustrates them. He's chemically castrated in front of a mic, and it's a good thing. He runs the same interference for his players and staff, too. A lot of fans hate it, but it's for the best, and it's a part of the reason he's had success here where Wade didn't.

 

[Idgit]

You're acting like we had a bad defense going into this game. We had limited other strong rushing attacks and the Rams didn't run freely just because their players are that much better. The gameplan to stop their run did not work, their coaches figured how to attack it, knew what our tendencies were, how to react to our formations. It took their players to execute the game plan and hats off to them, they did. It all started with their coaches and how they prepared for the game and how they prepared to attack us.

The Colts changed how they blocked at the LOS, they went from largely zone to man blocking to account for our LBs. Our coaches weren't prepared for that change, neither were the players and we struggled to adjust. Again, it wasn't simply that we got beat by the "matchups", we were beat by how they schemed to make those matchups happen.

Coaching matters.

That's one way of looking at it. Not, you know, an accurate one, but it's one way.

I'm not acting at all like we had a bad defense going into the game. We hadn't played the Rams. They move the ball up to the red zone very quickly and then sometimes bog down, in the few games they lost. It's pretty much exactly what they did against us. They just did it better than any team this season other than the Colts. Maybe even better than the Colts.

Coaching does matter. You need a pretty good one to be competitive. Good thing our HC is pretty good. Even if you won't admit it.

 

[Idgit]

So your answer is that criticism of the Cowboys game plan after the game was simply to get eyeballs?

You have an excuse for everything. Which points clearly to what is the correct answer to your last question.

The guy who has excuses for everything that could or has gone wrong is the guy not standing on solid footing.

No, not simply. They're analyzing the game to see why the Rams won. There are reasons why the Rams won. The hypothetical article gets read more if it touches on the common themes the media likes to run with. Which is why you see your objective pundits getting basic analysis wrong when it comes to things like Dak's deep ball performance or ability to get it done in close situations all the time. You can't tell me you haven't seen examples of the media pushing narratives about the Cowboys that are just plain wrong. You don't have to look any further than Zeke's DV case to see what happens if somebody thinks they can get attention with an article.

I don't have excuses for everything. I never said I did. I don't swallow blindly stupid criticisms that aren't supported. Or sometimes thoughtful criticisms I don't agree with. Your issue is you don't like that I don't agree with you about Garrett. You're just going to have to live with it.

And I'd argue the guy who makes up criticisms and doesn't particularly care if they're accurate or defensible is just as likely to be on the wrong footing as the who makes excuses for everything. The problem with your argument, though, is that I've said many times that I don't think Garrett is a 'great' coach and that I have a list of things I actually do criticize him for. I just don't indulge in crazy speculation or second guessing of tough choices that don't happen to work out.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

So what is the plan then, for those who think were headed in the right direction. How many more years do we give JG, 3, 10, 20? If 3 years from now we are in the same position we are now, do we move on? 8 years is a long time and I'm very frustrated because I grew up expecting championships, the Boys didn't always get there but we were always in the mix. Now were just the butt of jokes.

I'm frustrated because I've never seen this team go beyond the divisional round. While I do criticize Garrett a lot, I was feeling so hopeful that we'd advance this year. I felt that we had a good chance of beating the Rams. I felt like we finally were going to reach the NFCC. I didn't even care how we would do if we got there. Just to see us there finally would've been enough for me this year to not say what I've said even today. Yet, once again, I feel I was let down. I hope that I do get to see us in the NFCC. I hope that Garrett can lead us there and beyond. But, he's yet to show me that he can.

 

[lqmac1]

You might need to get out more.

Na.

 

[RD21]

Depends on the coach. I would have kept Parcells, though he didn't outperform Garrett and he was more frustrating than Garrett in my opinion in a lot of ways. He was also a really good coach.

Campo? He was a terrible coach. Wade wasn't terrible, but he couldn't assemble a team and we drafted poorly under him as a result. I wasn't in favor of his hiring, and it was time to go when he was fired. Gailey was a decent coach, but he clashed with Aikman. That's what got the coach fired in GB this season. I didn't like him enough to keep him. Switzer was a cool dude and a better coach than given credit for, but he still wasn't very good. His hire was a joke, overall.

So really, it's more accurate to say Garrett is the only HC candidate I've ever had to go out on a limb for. I did it for Zimmer, too, when he was DC (and was right about that one, too). My track record when I go against the mob is pretty good. Because I don't really dig in on a topic unless I think the mob is foaming at it's mouth and wrong.

Parcels more frustrating than Garrett...? At least with Parcells, we knew we had a solid coach. One who would move us in the right direction. Parcells took us from the abyss to an upswing. He changed the attitude around here, & performance rather quickly. We were dog poop when he arrived. Had he stayed one more season (2007), I believe we would've advanced to at least the NFC Championship game that year. Might have kept him even longer after that, who knows.

Switzer was a tool. Jerry hired Switzer 100% to "in your face" Jimmy. Switzer was a clown, who took the best roster in the league & cruised on the back of his Coordinators to a SB ring. They should've won in '94. Does anybody REALLY credit Switzer for that SB win..? Not really.

Campo..... bottom of the barrel there. He was 1/2 way decent as a coordinator but he was no HC. In his defense, we weren't nearly as loaded with talent at the time. We were paying the Piper at that point.

Gailey... the most comparable to Garrett imo. Average coach when at his best. He, like Garrett, was decent as a coordinator. Not HC material.

Wade.... great guy, great defensive mind. He's no HC. He's too soft to be a HC. He's perfect scheming, & calling plays for a defense. That's where he excels. He gets spread too thin trying to be a HC, & aspects of the team suffer. Players like him. They didn't respect him though. He wasn't "tough enough" as a HC. Hence the nickname, Camp Cupcake when he was our coach.

With the circus that is the Jones organization, you need a strong personality HC to counter the circus. It's why Jimmy was perfect. A guy like Payton would be perfect. Great coach but, also tough, & respected by the players. Garrett may be just as liked as any coach we've had. He may be a super duper person. Kind of guy you want your daughter to marry. He's not gonna take this team to a Lomardi trophy unless he has a lot more talent, & a much better offensive coordinator. Something like the scenario Switzer won in.

 

[Idgit]

Parcels more frustrating than Garrett...? At least with Parcells, we knew we had a solid coach. One who would move us in the right direction. Parcells took us from the abyss to an upswing. He changed the attitude around here, & performance rather quickly. We were dog poop when he arrived. Had he stayed one more season (2007), I believe we would've advanced to at least the NFC Championship game that year. Might have kept him even longer after that, who knows.

Switzer was a tool. Jerry hired Switzer 100% to "in your face" Jimmy. Switzer was a clown, who took the best roster in the league & cruised on the back of his Coordinators to a SB ring. They should've won in '94. Does anybody REALLY credit Switzer for that SB win..? Not really.

Campo..... bottom of the barrel there. He was 1/2 way decent as a coordinator but he was no HC. In his defense, we weren't nearly as loaded with talent at the time. We were paying the Piper at that point.

Gailey... the most comparable to Garrett imo. Average coach when at his best. He, like Garrett, was decent as a coordinator. Not HC material.

Wade.... great guy, great defensive mind. He's no HC. He's too soft to be a HC. He's perfect scheming, & calling plays for a defense. That's where he excels. He gets spread too thin trying to be a HC, & aspects of the team suffer. Players like him. They didn't respect him though. He wasn't "tough enough" as a HC. Hence the nickname, Camp Cupcake when he was our coach.

With the circus that is the Jones organization, you need a strong personality HC to counter the circus. It's why Jimmy was perfect. A guy like Payton would be perfect. Great coach but, also tough, & respected by the players. Garrett may be just as liked as any coach we've had. He may be a super duper person. Kind of guy you want your daughter to marry. He's not gonna take this team to a Lomardi trophy unless he has a lot more talent, & a much better offensive coordinator. Something like the scenario Switzer won in.

They’re both pretty good coaches in their tenure here.

Vinny Testaverde and all the Giants hanging around the locker and the slow retread veterans in the roster drove me nuts with Parcells. And how slow he was to play rookies. Really fun guy to listen to, though. Miss his pressers.

 

[TINGS21]

The Coaches Garret is tied with or better than winning % and their inherited/rookie QB.
Team - QB - QBR their 1st year with that coach

Parcells
NYG - Brunner - 54.3
NE - Bledsoe - 65
NYJ - O'Donnell - 80.3
DAL - Q. Carter - 71.4

Noll
PIT - Shiner - 60.3

Quinn
ATL - RYAN - 89

Levy
KC - Lingston - 57.4

Ditka
CHI - McMahon - 77.6 (Used 83' for QBR as 82' was a strike year)

Rivera
CAR - Newton* - 58.1

Johnson
DAL - Aikman* - 55.7
MIA - Marino - 87.8

Shanahan
DEN - Elway - 86.4
WAS - McNabb - 77.1

Garrett
DAL - Romo - 91.4

 

[Sarge]

Garrett did a really good job this year but as predicted, it all ended exactly where I have been saying it would end. I just don’t think he is good enough to get this team over the hump and to the next level. Been saying that for years. It is what it is and all the complaining in the world isn’t going to convince Jerry to get rid of him (I tried that already).

 

[foofighters]

As JJ said yesterday, had JG been fired, it would have taken him a minute and a half to find a new job. Let's look at JG in an historical perspective. He was young (45) when he took the team over. He has a decent sample size of games coached to assess his career to date, so how does his winning percentage stack up with some of the greats of the game? It is worth noting that, aside from Belichick, no other coach had a HOF QB that was willing to leave over $100m on the table to help their team win.

Jason Garrett's win percentage is .566. That puts him either statistically tied (within 3%) or better than the following list of coaches:

Bill Parcells (HOF)
Chuck Knoll (HOF)
Dan Quinn
Marv Levy (HOF)
Mike Ditka (HOF)
Ron Rivera
Jimmy Johnson
Mike Shanahan

He's within striking distance of (all less than .600)

Pete Carrol
John Harbaugh
Mike Zimmer
Mike Holmgren
Hank Stram
Don Coryell

The point is that fans tend to look at the latest 'boy wonder' or some other nonsense and they think that:

1. These guys grown on trees
2. That these new coaches that have been successful in the short term will also be successful in the long term. That's FAR from a guarantee.

As an example, Cowboy fans LOVED Jimmy Johnson after he started winning, but there was some serious hate flowing through the Cowboys fan universe after his first two seasons. He had an amazing run with Dallas, then shuffles off to Miami and manages just one 10 win season in four years. He had 11 win and 13 win seasons and a Super Bowl in his first four years with Dallas and arguably started with a lesser team before the talent flowed in like a water fall. Much of that great talent was a product not necessarily of luck, but of being at the right place at the right time (move a draft pick one position and the results might have been radically different, or don't take a chance on a troubled player like Haley and we might have won no SBs during his tenure).

The point is this: Jason Garrett is not an elite coach yet, but he IS a damn good coach. You're free to think he isn't, but you'd be wrong.

The over/under for Dallas this year was 8 games. It will be 8 or 9 next year with the schedule we play. The NFL has structured their league for parity, so if a coach can dodge losing seasons in our current era, he's done a good job.

Pete Carroll had 2 winning seasons during his first 6 years.
Belichick was an awful coach before he got Brady.
Chuck Knoll (HOF) had ONE 10 win season in his last 12 seasons.
In the 3 comparable years during his coaching career (2016-18 for Garrett), Bill Cowher went 7-9, 6-10, 9-7 and only had one 12 win season before that. JG has had 2 seasons with more wins.

You'd be wise to thank the coaching gods that JG is our coach. I look forward to many wininng seasons with him at the helm.

My farts smell like Jason Garrett...

 

[DStar22]

he's had 8 years. imo he should only get MAXIMUM, as many years as he wins playoff games from here on out, on a downward scale... IOTW, no more years for wild card wins after this season... it can reset if he wins a superbowl

so, he's got one year to do better.

that's IMO... unfortunately Jerry's plan appears to be to embrace mediocrity until the eagles tie us in Superbowls

 

[TakedisDAK]

Yeah. That's one of the things I really like about JG is that he never gives the Dallas media a thing to bite on. When Wade was here, he had beat reporters telling him to his face they could do a better job coaching the team than he could. It was embarrassing.

The Dallas media smells blood and they run with it. So Garrett frustrates them. He's chemically castrated in front of a mic, and it's a good thing. He runs the same interference for his players and staff, too. A lot of fans hate it, but it's for the best, and it's a part of the reason he's had success here where Wade didn't.

What success has he had here?? Did I miss something ?? Lol

 

[TakedisDAK]

That's one way of looking at it. Not, you know, an accurate one, but it's one way.

I'm not acting at all like we had a bad defense going into the game. We hadn't played the Rams. They move the ball up to the red zone very quickly and then sometimes bog down, in the few games they lost. It's pretty much exactly what they did against us. They just did it better than any team this season other than the Colts. Maybe even better than the Colts.

Coaching does matter. You need a pretty good one to be competitive. Good thing our HC is pretty good. Even if you won't admit it.

What makes him pretty good as a coach? I'd love to hear your opinion on this.

 

[Idgit]

What success has he had here?? Did I miss something ?? Lol

Looks like you did, yeah. He’s won a lot of games, relative to other teams. He’s won the division a few times, as well.