Jason Witten - now ranked 4th among TEs this season

[Future]

Sometimes Football Outsiders is the absolute worst thing in the world.

That metric has Evan Engram ranked 41 out of 42. Are we really going to sit here and say that there are 40 better receiving TEs and that he's a sub-replacement-level player, by 50 yards? That thought is just...LMAO

Totally stupid metric, especially with such a small sample size.

 

[Future]

Shhhh. Some people here think Jarwin should be used more. Not the future Hall of Famer that's still getting it done.

Witten is getting it done for what they ask him to do. Using Jarwin more would be better for the offense. Both things can be true.

 

[CF74]

That year off revived his career a bit because last year he looked like a progress stopper.


Now he’s a Show Stopper!!!

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Witten is getting it done for what they ask him to do. Using Jarwin more would be better for the offense. Both things can be true.

A lot of that is on Jarwin, as well. He does need to get better, in terms of blocking assignments, but I agree. I have no idea how many snaps he's getting but I would not be opposed to something in the area of 35/40% of the snaps, just depending how well he's playing or practicing. But you gotta be able to not just threaten the scheme, you gotta be able to make the 7 to 10 yard, find a way to get open, make the catch with LBs hanging off you, at a very high percentage of the time, to move the chains, catch as well. That's what Witten does so if you can do those things, then it would be real hard to argue against Jarwin starting. I haven't seen it yet though.

 

[charron]

Does your eyes not tell you the same?

No they say he's doing his thing. Catching most of his passes 84% before eagles game and still averaging over 10 yards a catch.

 

[Future]

A lot of that is on Jarwin, as well. He does need to get better, in terms of blocking assignments, but I agree. I have no idea how many snaps he's getting but I would not be opposed to something in the area of 35/40% of the snaps, just depending how well he's playing or practicing. But you gotta be able to not just threaten the scheme, you gotta be able to make the 7 to 10 yard, find a way to get open, make the catch with LBs hanging off you, at a very high percentage of the time, to move the chains, catch as well. That's what Witten does so if you can do those things, then it would be real hard to argue against Jarwin starting. I haven't seen it yet though.

Witten's Snap %:

1 - 66
2 - 77
3 - 51
4 - 79
5 - 83
6 - 88
7 - 76

Witten's snaps is directly aligned with the team's worst offensive performances. Those are also the games where JG got in the way of Moore.

I don't really care who is the starter but that lack of balance is absurd. Jarwin down the seam can kill teams. Witten catching 6-yard passes on third and 5 with an impossibly slim margin of error will bite you eventually. Witten shouldn't be a real part of the passing game - in place of Jarwin - other than third-and-short and inside the 10.

 

[Doomsday101]

I like seeing Jarwin in when Dallas runs the 2 TE sets, normally that is a run formation but with a receiving TE like Jarwin he can be used off the play action.

 

[Doomsday101]

Witten's Snap %:

1 - 66
2 - 77
3 - 51
4 - 79
5 - 83
6 - 88
7 - 76

Witten's snaps is directly aligned with the team's worst offensive performances. Those are also the games where JG got in the way of Moore.

I don't really care who is the starter but that lack of balance is absurd. Jarwin down the seam can kill teams. Witten catching 6-yard passes on third and 5 with an impossibly slim margin of error will bite you eventually. Witten shouldn't be a real part of the passing game - in place of Jarwin - other than third-and-short and inside the 10.

So when Jarwin is in we pass and when he is out we run? I'm sure defense would love that tip. Also Garrett getting in the way on the 3 loses but was not in the way in the wins? Laughable, So you have your scape goat when Dallas loses but a win and it was all Moore? Grow up

 

[Future]

So when Jarwin is in we pass and when he is out we run? I'm sure defense would love that tip. Also Garrett getting in the way on the 3 loses but was not in the way in the wins? Laughable, So you have your scape goat when Dallas loses but a win and it was all Moore? Grow up

Uhhh not what I said, but cry as you wish.

Jason Garret sucks. The team wins in spite of him and loses because of him. I will say that now, I will say that if they win the Super Bowl. He's bad and you can't read.

 

[MWH1967]

He's going to go down as the Dallas goat...

 

[Cowboy Brian]

Witten's not what he once was as a receiver or blocker, but even when he retired, he was still better than most of the starting tight ends in the league (and he's still playing on that level). The problem is that most aren't satisfied with "better than most." They want a Witten in his prime, which was elite level. Maybe that's Witten's fault. He spoiled us into thinking we're always supposed to have one of those.

Hopefully, we'll find another prime Witten one day, but probably what we're getting from him now is about what we can expect from any TE unless we are very fortunate.

#4 in the league IS elite level.....

Witten in his prime is the greatest of all time level...

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Witten's Snap %:

1 - 66
2 - 77
3 - 51
4 - 79
5 - 83
6 - 88
7 - 76

Witten's snaps is directly aligned with the team's worst offensive performances. Those are also the games where JG got in the way of Moore.

I don't really care who is the starter but that lack of balance is absurd. Jarwin down the seam can kill teams. Witten catching 6-yard passes on third and 5 with an impossibly slim margin of error will bite you eventually. Witten shouldn't be a real part of the passing game - in place of Jarwin - other than third-and-short and inside the 10.

How is this quantified? I mean, those numbers could mean anything. All it really suggests to me is that the team is using Witten in those games where the Defense is pressuring Dak. It suggests that Witten is the better option and that's not surprising. He is the best TE we have at short area receptions. He catches the ball, he gets open, he blocks well. None of this is really surprising to me, if the QB is seeing pressure. Obviously, you would like him to be able to get rid of the ball quickly and keep moving the chains.

To date, I believe Witten is averaging 10.1 YPC, while Jarwin is averaging 10.8. There is a slight advantage there, in favor of Jarwin but it doesn't suggest to me that his ability to attack the middle of the field deep is a major factor.

I would like to see Jarwin get more time, if for no other reason then to make certain that Witten still has something left, should we make the playoffs, but I don't think I see enough to say that Jarwin should be starting over Witten. I'd guess that if Dak felt like Jarwin should be starting, he would likely be starting.

That's just my opinion.

 

[Future]

How is this quantified? I mean, those numbers could mean anything. All it really suggests to me is that the team is using Witten in those games where the Defense is pressuring Dak. It suggests that Witten is the better option and that's not surprising. He is the best TE we have at short area receptions. He catches the ball, he gets open, he blocks well. None of this is really surprising to me, if the QB is seeing pressure. Obviously, you would like him to be able to get rid of the ball quickly and keep moving the chains.

To date, I believe Witten is averaging 10.1 YPC, while Jarwin is averaging 10.8. There is a slight advantage there, in favor of Jarwin but it doesn't suggest to me that his ability to attack the middle of the field deep is a major factor.

I would like to see Jarwin get more time, if for no other reason then to make certain that Witten still has something left, should we make the playoffs, but I don't think I see enough to say that Jarwin should be starting over Witten. I'd guess that if Dak felt like Jarwin should be starting, he would likely be starting.

That's just my opinion.

What do you mean how is it quantified? That's the percentage of offensive snaps.

The thing about facing pressure is theoretical. It made no difference against the Jets or Saints, and hasn't in years. You beat the pressure by hitting big plays, and Witten doesn't do that, relative to Jarwin. Any TE in the league can run three yards and turn around on a hot.

Sample size is too small for YPC to matter. Jarwin has three catches of over 20 yards, Witten has 2, but one was that dumb catch and run against. Witten presents no danger beyond 12 yards or so.

Again, I don't care who starts, and yes, context of the game matters. But I don't see a scenario where it makes sense for Witten to be playing 88% of the snaps when you're down by 21 in the first quarter. It means you're throwing constantly, and choosing to put in a less dangerous receiver. That's part of the whole JG influence that is problematic. It's the idea of designing an offense designed to get 5 yards instead of explosive plays.

 

[dfense]

Jarwin will only benefit from the attention Witten gets.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

What do you mean how is it quantified? That's the percentage of offensive snaps.

The thing about facing pressure is theoretical. It made no difference against the Jets or Saints, and hasn't in years. You beat the pressure by hitting big plays, and Witten doesn't do that, relative to Jarwin. Any TE in the league can run three yards and turn around on a hot.

Sample size is too small for YPC to matter. Jarwin has three catches of over 20 yards, Witten has 2, but one was that dumb catch and run against. Witten presents no danger beyond 12 yards or so.

Again, I don't care who starts, and yes, context of the game matters. But I don't see a scenario where it makes sense for Witten to be playing 88% of the snaps when you're down by 21 in the first quarter. It means you're throwing constantly, and choosing to put in a less dangerous receiver. That's part of the whole JG influence that is problematic. It's the idea of designing an offense designed to get 5 yards instead of explosive plays.

What are you confused about? I realize those are the percentages but there no correlation to what you seem to be suggesting, based on those numbers. To be frank, what I asked was the percentage of snaps Jarwin is getting, in comparison. Not, what percentage Witten was seeing. I clearly said, I think it would be idea to have a 65/35 - 60/40 split.

There is nothing at all to suggest that Playing Jarwin more would change the outcomes of any of those games. The problems are not that we don't have people open. The problems are that we are either turning the ball over, not going to the open man, hurting ourselves with penalties or just plain forgetting that we have to play defense as well. To be honest, I don't think a downfield threat at TE would really be used much. We already have three WRs that can go deep better then any TE we have on the team so I actually believe that a guy who can move the chains and control the short area is more beneficial in our Offense. Now if you ran a Two TE Offense, I could see that being more of a need but we don't do that. We use WRs to go deep.

And no, not any TE can do what Witten can do. Jarwin can't do it.

 

[SlammedZero]

Don't take a mans hat!

That is one of the most memorable Cowboys plays I have in my memory for that decade. Just absolutely outstanding.

 

[gimmesix]

#4 in the league IS elite level.....

Witten in his prime is the greatest of all time level...

He probably ends up in the 60s-70s as far as receptions go, maybe 600-700 yards. I don't really consider that elite.

Ertz was elite level last year 116 for 1,163. Kelce was elite level last year 103-1,336. This year, Austin Hooper (46-526) and Darren Waller (44-485) are maybe playing on that level, Witten's level is top-10, which is not bad because he's still more productive than two-thirds of the starting TEs in the league, but it's not the great numbers he's put up in the past when he was the Ertz or Kelce of his time.

 

[Verdict]

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/te/2019

On a DYAR basis, Jason Witten is ranked as the #4 TE so far this season.

Long story short, don't doubt the all-time greats. If he keeps this up, he easily has another season or two to go.


Tight ends are ranked according to DYAR, or Defense-adjusted Yards Above Replacement. This gives the value of the performance on plays where this TE caught the ball, compared to a replacement-level TE in the same game situations and then translated into yardage. DYAR (and its cousin, YAR, which isn't adjusted based on opponent) is further explained here.

Oh my. More stats. Lol. Witten sucks horribly and I’m a Witten fan. But the dude is a has been.

 

[eromeopolk]

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/te/2019

On a DYAR basis, Jason Witten is ranked as the #4 TE so far this season.

Long story short, don't doubt the all-time greats. If he keeps this up, he easily has another season or two to go.


Tight ends are ranked according to DYAR, or Defense-adjusted Yards Above Replacement. This gives the value of the performance on plays where this TE caught the ball, compared to a replacement-level TE in the same game situations and then translated into yardage. DYAR (and its cousin, YAR, which isn't adjusted based on opponent) is further explained here.

Sorry. But, I am going to stick with my fantasy football Tight Ends Greg Kittle and Darren Waller. I can run a 2 TE offense in fantasy football unlike the Cowboys tried with Witten and no one that worked (see Bennett, Fasano, Campbell, Escobar, Swaim, Jarwin, Schultz, Gathers, etc.).

 

[bayeslife]

I don’t really care what that says, he lost us the Saints game