Jerry improving as a GM?

[Hostile]

But again, that goes back to my point. Parcells says we want Merriman, Ireland says we want Ware.

Ultimately it's up to Jerry. He's the "tiebreaker". These guys can all suggest whatever they want. And while Ireland gets props for pushing for Ware, it's ultimately Jerry that gets the credit for a.) having a guy in that position smart enough to vouch for Ware's talent and b.) sticking with that guy's suggestion.

Then you give him more credit than I do. I give the credit to Ireland and I don't see this as some huge veto because Parcells loved it.

 

[DOUBLE WING]

You are right. I can't. I give him a lot of credit because I respect him so much. It is entirely possible that credit belongs to Eric DeCosta who is very highly respected around the NFL.

Now I'm with you in the sense that just looking at it logically, it's fair to say we both assume Ozzie is more involved in that day-to-day scouting process than Jerry, right?

At the end of the day though, they both make the personnel decision. The difference is Ozzie is a lot more equipped to make that decision because I think we're both guessing he's down there in the bunker with his guys a lot more than Jerry is.

 

[DOUBLE WING]

Then you give him more credit than I do. I give the credit to Ireland and I don't see this as some huge veto because Parcells loved it.

It was a good call by Ireland to stick to his guns on Ware, but nothing happens without Jerry's approval and he ultimately had to decide "Ok, we're drafting Ware."

On that same token, I would bet there are handfuls of times where the same "pick one or the other" decision has come up and Jerry picked the wrong guy (looking at our team the last few years, I'm guessing that's been the case more often than not )

 

[Irving Cowboy]

Never trust a cockroach.

~shower~

I have now become the most hated Cowboys Fan in the world.

And it's not even close.

 

[Hostile]

Now I'm with you in the sense that just looking at it logically, it's fair to say we both assume Ozzie is more involved in that day-to-day scouting process than Jerry, right?

Sir, yes sir.

At the end of the day though, they both make the personnel decision. The difference is Ozzie is a lot more equipped to make that decision because I think we're both guessing he's down there in the bunker with his guys a lot more than Jerry is.

And from where I sit the difference is Ozzie reports to the Ravens owner who gives his approval. Jerry gets his report from Ciskowski and both are more equipped to make those analysis than the 2 owners.

 

[DOUBLE WING]

Sir, yes sir.

And from where I sit the difference is Ozzie reports to the Ravens owner who gives his approval. Jerry gets his report from Ciskowski and both are more equipped to make those analysis than the 2 owners.

The chain of command is still the same. Baltimore is Decosta > Newsome > Bisciotti (to sign the check).

Dallas is Ciskowski/Garrett/Stephen > Jerry.

But again, don't most GM's have final authority over personnel decisions written into their contract? (this is an actual question, I don't know for sure that ALL of them do, but I'd imagine so). So if Newsome brings it to Steve Bisciotti all he can to within the confines of the contract is sign the check, or veto it based purely off financial reasons. If he doesn't like what Newsome is telling him about the personnel, he can fire him.

 

[Hostile]

But again, don't most GM's have final authority over personnel decisions written into their contract? (this is an actual question, I don't know for sure that ALL of them do, but I'd imagine so). So if Newsome brings it to Steve Bisciotti all he can to within the confines of the contract is sign the check, or veto it based purely off financial reasons. If he doesn't like what Newsome is telling him, he can fire him.

Bisciotti can fire Newsome. For whatever reason. I don't think it has to necessarily be that he doesn't like what he is being told. I was actually wondering if he would fire him so he could keep DeCosta. Teams have begun snooping at him. I don't know what is in a GMs contract. I just know that the owners are all involved. The lone exception is Green bay which is a shareholders situation. Mark Murphy is the only non owner in the NFL who has "final say," and he can still be dismissed from his job. Ted Thompson, a great GM IMO, still has to report to him, and he still has to report to the shareholders.

 

[cowboysooner]

In all honesty, there are 32 different power structures around the league and how drafts and free agent signings are accomplished.

There are different levels of credibility among coaches and scouts when it comes to evaluations of different positions or different areas of the country.

Most of the Jerry gripes are in regards to the draft and honestly I think our "process" is pretty good there. I think Jones views Ciskowski as the smartest guy in the room. That is markedly different that an Atlanta draft room where their GM is a former scout, which is different from a Baltimore draft room where a former player is in charge, versus a New England draft room where Lord Vader is in charge.

So Jerry gets to be the guy that calls Mo Claiborne. Big deal. He spent his money and wants to ride the ride.

 

[DOUBLE WING]

Bisciotti can fire Newsome. For whatever reason. I don't think it has to necessarily be that he doesn't like what he is being told. I was actually wondering if he would fire him so he could keep DeCosta. Teams have begun snooping at him. I don't know what is in a GMs contract. I just know that the owners are all involved. The lone exception is Green bay which is a shareholders situation. Mark Murphy is the only non owner in the NFL who has "final say," and he can still be dismissed from his job. Ted Thompson, a great GM IMO, still has to report to him, and he still has to report to the shareholders.

But when you say Jerry isn't as involved as other GM's, you have to also acknowledge he's more involved than any other owner. It's a shaky middle ground that he juggles. That's the problem with him trying to wear both hats and play both roles. It leads to a lot of the issues this organization has had over the years.

 

[LatinMind]

He never has from me.

I gave that credit to Jeff Ireland.

Dont, Broaddus actually said last week on their show. That Jerry was the one that basically told Parcells sit down im taking Ware.

 

[Hostile]

In all honesty, there are 32 different power structures around the league and how drafts and free agent signings are accomplished.

There are different levels of credibility among coaches and scouts when it comes to evaluations of different positions or different areas of the country.

Most of the Jerry gripes are in regards to the draft and honestly I think our "process" is pretty good there. I think Jones views Ciskowski as the smartest guy in the room. That is markedly different that an Atlanta draft room where their GM is a former scout, which is different from a Baltimore draft room where a former player is in charge, versus a New England draft room where Lord Vader is in charge.

So Jerry gets to be the guy that calls Mo Claiborne. Big deal. He spent his money and wants to ride the ride.

Good post. I will say this, all of these power brokers have sources they trust. owners, GMs, Head Scouts, etc. Even the Hoodie does, and I learned this week his name is Ernie, and that even most of the Patriots players don't know his last name.

All of them. There is no such thing as a one man show in the NFL.

 

[Hostile]

But when you say Jerry isn't as involved as other GM's, you have to also acknowledge he's more involved than any other owner. It's a shaky middle ground that he juggles. That's the problem with him trying to wear both hats and play both roles. It leads to a lot of the issues this organization has had over the years.

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4950960&postcount=123

 

[DOUBLE WING]

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4950960&postcount=123

And do you believe that's a problem?

 

[cowboysooner]

Good post. I will say this, all of these power brokers have sources they trust. owners, GMs, Head Scouts, etc. Even the Hoodie does, and I learned this week his name is Ernie, and that even most of the Patriots players don't know his last name.

All of them. There is no such thing as a one man show in the NFL.

I will say that I like a power structure like ours that bends more to the scouting staff's pure evaluation like ours than a structure that relies heavily on the head coach big footing decisions. I think that happens in Washington quite a bit and will happen in St. Louis though they did a great job last year largely because Fisher was not coaching during the season.

 

[Plankton]

Good post. I will say this, all of these power brokers have sources they trust. owners, GMs, Head Scouts, etc. Even the Hoodie does, and I learned this week his name is Ernie, and that even most of the Patriots players don't know his last name.

All of them. There is no such thing as a one man show in the NFL.

You mean Ernie Adams?

Adams is an employee of the Patriots. He was a childhood friend of Belichick, and long rumored to be the person behind Spygate.

 

[Hostile]

And do you believe that's a problem?

With Ireland, Ciskowsi, or Ackles, no. With Jimmy, Bill, Wade, or Jason as HC, no.

With Lacewell, yes. With Barry, Chan or Dave, yes.

Is that fair?

I really have nothing against Lacewell. I've talked to him before. Nice guy. Good football guy, brought here by Jimmy. But he and Jerry and Barry were drinking buddies going all the way back to Arkansas days, and I think that got in the way. Barry stole Larry's wife, and I for years have wondered if he tanked the 1994 to 1997 Drafts as retaliation. Other than Larry Allen, not much was good.

 

[Hostile]

You mean Ernie Adams?

Adams is an employee of the Patriots. He was a childhood friend of Belichick, and long rumored to be the person behind Spygate.

Yeah. I read an article about him recently. Pretty good stuff.

 

[DOUBLE WING]

With Ireland, Ciskowsi, or Ackles, no. With Jimmy, Bill, Wade, or Jason as HC, no.

With Lacewell, yes. With Barry, Chan or Dave, yes.

Is that fair?

I really have nothing against Lacewell. I've talked to him before. Nice guy. Good football guy, brought here by Jimmy. But he and Jerry and Barry were drinking buddies going all the way back to Arkansas days, and I think that got in the way. Barry stole Larry's wife, and I for years have wondered if he tanked the 1994 to 1997 Drafts as retaliation. Other than Larry Allen, not much was good.

It's fair, but even with the personnel guys you like, Jerry is still a problem.

I guess my scenario is this: We go into the draft and Jerry makes the decision that we're focusing on the secondary and going cheap on the offensive line with a couple of small free agent signings.

Once that decision is made, it's irrelevant to me who is doing the legwork or how amazingly talented they might be. Ciskowski could be the best personnel guy in the league, but he can only do what Jerry directs him to do.

 

[Plankton]

Yeah. I read an article about him recently. Pretty good stuff.

You should read David Halberstam's book on Belichick, The Education of a Coach. It's a fascinating read about Belichick's relationship with his father, and it goes into great detail about Belichick and Ernie Adams.

 

[DOUBLE WING]

I really have nothing against Lacewell. I've talked to him before. Nice guy. Good football guy, brought here by Jimmy. But he and Jerry and Barry were drinking buddies going all the way back to Arkansas days, and I think that got in the way. Barry stole Larry's wife, and I for years have wondered if he tanked the 1994 to 1997 Drafts as retaliation. Other than Larry Allen, not much was good.

Looking at some of our picks from 1995-2002, you have to wonder if Jerry and Larry were actually drinking on the job.