CFZ Just because you have a young coach doesn't mean he will be Sean McVay

[RustyBourneHorse]

I think something that Jerry has missed out on is this. Just because you have a young coach doesn't mean he will magically become Sean McVay. We have had two coaches that the FO has propped up as the next young geniuses. Those two being Jason Garrett and Kellen Moore.

In the case of Jason Garrett, I used to receive magazines late in the offseason as training camp was going to start. In a magazine I received in 2007, it mentioned of course about Wade Phillips being the next HC. Concerningly, it also talked about how Jason Garrett, the new OC who I hadn't heard of at the time, was due to become a HC at some point if Wade doesn't succeed. I found this concerning because he hadn't had enough time to develop into a HC, yet, he was already being propped up as the next HC. Turned out, 3 years later, the magazine was correct. Sure enough, Garrett didn't do well and failed miserably with the Giants after leaving us. The problem in my view? He hadn't been given enough time to acclimate to what it really takes to be a HC as a coordinator. He should have been working his way through the ranks, but it was obvious that Jerry wanted him as a HC. However, his mentors were Wade Phillips and Nick Saban. One of which was a defencive-minded HC, and the other couldn't cut it at the NFL level. It might have served Garrett better to learn a few more years under a different proper coach. Think Jerry has learned his lesson? Think again....

Now we come to Kellen Moore. He was, at one point, slated to be the 2nd string QB behind Romo until he broke his leg. So, into coaching he went. At first as the QB coach under Linehan and Garrett. He seemed to be propped up as this genius coaching mind. He quickly rises the rank to OC, and then stays that way with Mike. However, he's shown a few potential weaknesses in terms of long-term team adjustments to injuries, similar to something that Garrett struggled with. I think Mike, a better coach than Garrett, obviously, should be stepping in every now and then when Moore hits inexperience walls.

The morale of this story is that Jason Garrett was not a Sean McVay-type coach, nor is Moore. I think Jerry is rushing Moore through too quickly like he did Garrett. The nice thing about our FO set up is that it could allow for more patience to develop a coach at a coordinator spot as the GM can't be fired here. So, I think it'd be wise for Moore to take his time and learn how to make long-term adjustments as well as in-game adjustments (which he's better at than Garrett) before any talk of him being an NFL-HC arises.

 

[jazzcat22]

We are even more doomed if Moore becomes HC. If one thinks Garrett was a bad choice and was around for 10 years as HC, and more with being the OC.
Then Moore will be around at least as long.

Moore should have taken the HC position at Boise State. Maybe Jerry promised him something besides money to stay on.
Maybe Moore surprises, but as for now, I say no.

 

[RS12]

Jason Garrett. Landry 2.0, case in point.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

We are even more doomed if Moore becomes HC. If one thinks Garrett was a bad choice and was around for 10 years as HC, and more with being the OC.
Then Moore will be around at least as long.

Moore should have taken the HC position at Boise State. Maybe Jerry promised him something besides money to stay on.
Maybe Moore surprises, but as for now, I say no.

That's my point, if he wants to be an HC, then he should start in college before he tries to be a HC in the pros.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Jason Garrett. Landry 2.0, case in point.

Yes, and that's unfair to the coach to be laying those expectations on them before they have a chance to show who they are. Why not just let the coach develop? Jerry's not getting fired. Stephen isn't going anywhere. So, what's the rush? Let them develop, and then, when they're clearly ready and they've been taught by a master of coaching, then sure, turn it over to that coach.

 

[Doomsday101]

This will be Moore 4th season as OC, 2 of his 1st 3 seasons this offense has ranked 1 in the NFL. I think there are areas he can improve on no doubt about it but I also think he has done a lot of good things and I hope to see more out of him.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

This will be Moore 4th season as OC, 2 of his 1st 3 seasons this offense has ranked 1 in the NFL. I think there are areas he can improve on no doubt about it but I also think he has done a lot of good things and I hope to see more out of him.

Same here, and I think he's definitely better than Garrett in the same position. I'm just saying that I'm not sure he's ready for a HC job, but I'm curious if that's where Jerry's mind is going considering what happened with Garrett.

 

[Doomsday101]

Same here, and I think he's definitely better than Garrett in the same position. I'm just saying that I'm not sure he's ready for a HC job, but I'm curious if that's where Jerry's mind is going considering what happened with Garrett.

He may not be, he may never be a HC. We have all see top OC and DC who were excellent at what they do fail as HC. As for what Jerry may or may not do, that is anyone guess. If at some point Moore get his shot much of the success or failure will depend on the staff he put around himself.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

He may not be, he may never be a HC. We have all see top OC and DC who were excellent at what they do fail as HC. As for what Jerry may or may not do, that is anyone guess. If at some point Moore get his shot much of the success or failure will depend on the staff he put around himself.

I agree with that, but I'm just thinking that, if he wants to be an HC, that a college HC is a smart place to start.

 

[Doomsday101]

I agree with that, but I'm just thinking that, if he wants to be an HC, that a college HC is a smart place to start.

Maybe so, College coaching is a different animal, much of their success really comes down to the ability of recruiting.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Maybe so, College coaching is a different animal, much of their success really comes down to the ability of recruiting.

However, there are still things that can be used in the NFL. For example, adjustments, learning how defences and STs should be managed, and actually, recruiting is sort of useful if we had a FO that spent on FAs. There's a level of recruiting skills needed to persuade a FA to join the Cowboys over some other team.

 

[terra]

I am not convinced Moore is all that as a OC. In too many critical games the Offense does not show up. SF being only the latest example.

 

[terra]

However, there are still things that can be used in the NFL. For example, adjustments, learning how defences and STs should be managed, and actually, recruiting is sort of useful if we had a FO that spent on FAs. There's a level of recruiting skills needed to persuade a FA to join the Cowboys over some other team.

And a very critical job on the part of any HC is putting together a staff. THAT is what no OC or DC who has never been a HC does not have any experience at; and thus you cannot know if they are any good at it.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

And a very critical job on the part of any HC is putting together a staff. THAT is what no OC or DC who has never been a HC does not have any experience at; and thus you cannot know if they are any good at it.

That too, and he'd have to be able to do that to succeed at the college level as well as the pro level. All the more reason, before Jerry tries to make him a HC, he should advise him to try the college levels as a HC first. Additionally, he needs to be open to letting Mike take some play calling so that he can learn from Mike, who's only been coaching in the NFL since 1993 how to playcall through some very tough situations like in the playoffs.

 

[birdwells1]

Garrett was supposed to be his Sean Payton

Moore was supposed to be his Sean McVay

earlier

Kavika Pittman was supposed to be his Charles Haley

Quincy Carter was supposed to get his Donovan McNabb

David LaFluer was supposed to be his Jay Novachek

Chad Hutchinson was supposed to be his Troy Aikman

They all physically looked the part but it’s more to it than that. The guy that replace Michael Jordan in Chicago was. 6’6” shooting guard just like Mike but somehow I don’t remember his name.

 

[fivetwos]

I think something that Jerry has missed out on is this. Just because you have a young coach doesn't mean he will magically become Sean McVay. We have had two coaches that the FO has propped up as the next young geniuses. Those two being Jason Garrett and Kellen Moore.

In the case of Jason Garrett, I used to receive magazines late in the offseason as training camp was going to start. In a magazine I received in 2007, it mentioned of course about Wade Phillips being the next HC. Concerningly, it also talked about how Jason Garrett, the new OC who I hadn't heard of at the time, was due to become a HC at some point if Wade doesn't succeed. I found this concerning because he hadn't had enough time to develop into a HC, yet, he was already being propped up as the next HC. Turned out, 3 years later, the magazine was correct. Sure enough, Garrett didn't do well and failed miserably with the Giants after leaving us. The problem in my view? He hadn't been given enough time to acclimate to what it really takes to be a HC as a coordinator. He should have been working his way through the ranks, but it was obvious that Jerry wanted him as a HC. However, his mentors were Wade Phillips and Nick Saban. One of which was a defencive-minded HC, and the other couldn't cut it at the NFL level. It might have served Garrett better to learn a few more years under a different proper coach. Think Jerry has learned his lesson? Think again....

Now we come to Kellen Moore. He was, at one point, slated to be the 2nd string QB behind Romo until he broke his leg. So, into coaching he went. At first as the QB coach under Linehan and Garrett. He seemed to be propped up as this genius coaching mind. He quickly rises the rank to OC, and then stays that way with Mike. However, he's shown a few potential weaknesses in terms of long-term team adjustments to injuries, similar to something that Garrett struggled with. I think Mike, a better coach than Garrett, obviously, should be stepping in every now and then when Moore hits inexperience walls.

The morale of this story is that Jason Garrett was not a Sean McVay-type coach, nor is Moore. I think Jerry is rushing Moore through too quickly like he did Garrett. The nice thing about our FO set up is that it could allow for more patience to develop a coach at a coordinator spot as the GM can't be fired here. So, I think it'd be wise for Moore to take his time and learn how to make long-term adjustments as well as in-game adjustments (which he's better at than Garrett) before any talk of him being an NFL-HC arises.

Yup.

Moore was brought in to add "creativity" to Garrett's stale, dated offense....which became the Garrett offense with a few ridiculous gadget plays. Then morphed into a "yards are yards" pass happy deal while completely misusing the QB on hand.

He is the ultimate Jerry puppet, and why Jerrys fingerprints are still all over the offense.

One day, one way or another, a coach will be in here that doesn't have to worry about Jerry and his "ahhd lahk tuh say muhr uhv......"

Currently, we have a real football mind running the defense.

Moore runs half the offense, Jerry's ego the other half.....

And MM just stands there in disbelief while collecting his paycheck. It's his own fault, but another topic.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

I am not convinced Moore is all that as a OC. In too many critical games the Offense does not show up. SF being only the latest example.

I think it's because he seems to struggle with long term adjustments. Remember how Garrett couldn't adjust when say, we lost a starting QB or if the QB was playing on an injury? This was painfully obvious last season. Our QB had an injured leg, but Moore kept calling plays that worked when he was healthy when he should have tailored the playbook to fit an injured QB so that he's not having to drive the ball too far on a damaged calf muscle. That's something Garrett would've done, and Moore seemed to be doing that instead of more quick passes to accommodate that.

 

[Doomsday101]

However, there are still things that can be used in the NFL. For example, adjustments, learning how defences and STs should be managed, and actually, recruiting is sort of useful if we had a FO that spent on FAs. There's a level of recruiting skills needed to persuade a FA to join the Cowboys over some other team.

NFL comes down to money more than anything else. Players understand this is a business

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Yup.

Moore was brought in to add "creativity" to Garrett's stale, dated offense....which became the Garrett offense with a few ridiculous gadget plays. Then morphed into a "yards are yards" pass happy deal while completely misusing the QB on hand.

He is the ultimate Jerry puppet, and why Jerrys fingerprints are still all over the offense.

One day, one way or another, a coach will be in here that doesn't have to worry about Jerry and his "ahhd lahk tuh say muhr uhv......"

Currently, we have a real football mind running the defense.

Moore runs half the offense, Jerry's ego the other half.....

And MM just stands there in disbelief while collecting his paycheck. It's his own fault, but another topic.

Well, the good news is that it sounds like Mike might be taking over some of the playcall duties. I think he should be more vocal about when he wants to adjust. Moore is not ready for adjusting through difficult situations. He's better at adjusting than Garrett, but that's not saying much. Mike knows what he's doing at playcalling. Jerry should trust Mike more there. He only guided two Packers QBs to NFCC games and a SB ring for one of them. Not exactly something we've seen a lot lately.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

NFL comes down to money more than anything else. Players understand this is a business

But, this is a different franchise than most teams in that Jerry can afford to let a coach develop if there's a stronger leader above said coach. In this case, Moore has Mike who's got a lot of experience. Moore should be picking Mike's brain every chance he gets.