KC Joyner: Big-name safeties vulnerable to deep ball

JBS

Well-Known Member
Messages
22,385
Reaction score
23,823
http://proxy.espn.go.com/espn/print...4354&type=story



click link for full article



Big-name safeties vulnerable to deep ball

By KC Joyner
ESPN Insider

In this week's installment of overrated and underrated players, I will be taking a look at the safety position. When I grade safeties, it is primarily based on their coverage skills, not their run-support skills, although I do take the run-support skills into account.


I also break down safeties into two positional categories: run safety and coverage safety. I use those terms instead of the strong and free safety terms because I think they better identify what each safety is responsible for.


The safety position also has a unique coverage metric that I call the deep-assist coverage metric. This metric is used to distinguish when a safety is helping another player cover a receiver over the top. In addition to that metric, I also use the direct coverage metric when the safety is directly responsible for covering a receiver one on one.


The deep assist metric is the most important coverage metric for a coverage safety because that is the primary responsibility of that position. The direct coverage metric comes up more often with run safeties because they spend more of their time near the line of scrimmage at the snap, but they also have their share of deep assist plays. I also will combine these metrics together to measure a player's overall coverage skills as well.


As usual, the overrated and underrated rankings are based on the 2006 metrics when compared to the player's perceived performance level.


Overrated safeties

Ed Reed

Reed's metrics were terrible last year. His 14.9 combined YPA was the fifth-worst in the league among coverage safeties. He gave up the third-highest number of total yards. He had the fourth-most bomb passes thrown his way and the third-worst YPA at that depth level.



I know there are those who will say that the game broadcast tapes don't show everything that Reed does and that these numbers are anomalies, but let me throw this out in my defense. Carson Palmer said that Reed often doesn't play his coverage and thinks he knows what's coming. Palmer also commented that Reed can get frustrated when the offense is getting some things going and will try to come up and make a play and lose his responsibilities because of it. Palmer was able to exploit Reed's impatience in Week 13, when he connected on a flea-flicker pass to T.J. Houshmandzadeh for a 40-yard touchdown.


The metrics show that Palmer isn't the only quarterback who knows Reed's coverage weaknesses. That is why I believe Reed is the most overrated safety in the league.


Sean Taylor

Taylor made the Pro Bowl as an injury replacement, but the metrics make it clear he didn't earn the spot. He ranked 20th in both deep assist YPA and deep assist success percentage. He did even worse when in direct coverage, as his 10.7 YPA in those situations was the seventh worst in the NFL last year. He also gave up the second-most total yards of any coverage safety. Taylor did do a lot more to support the run last year than he did in years past, but even taking that into account, he really wasn't a Pro Bowl-level coverage safety last year.


Others:

Dwight Smith: Smith gets a lot of credit for making big plays, but his 12.3 overall YPA was 30th-worst in the league.


Erik Coleman: Coleman tends to be mentioned in the same breath as Kerry Rhodes because he plays in the same secondary, but his 44.7 percent success percentage was the fifth worst among coverage safeties last year.


Ken Hamlin: Is being touted as something of a savior for Dallas, but his 10.4 deep assist YPA ranked only 19th among coverage safeties last year.

Underrated safeties

Brian Russell

Russell had the second-best overall YPA of any coverage safety last year. He also placed in the top eight in YPA in both the direct coverage and deep assist coverage metrics. Add those to his No. 14 ranking in overall success percentage and it shows that the Seahawks might have found a gem in Russell.

Kevin Kaesviharn

Kaesviharn mostly played run safety with Cincinnati in 2006, but he likely will play coverage safety in New Orleans. The metrics say his transition to that position should be very smooth. Kaesviharn's 5.8 overall YPA was the sixth-best among run safeties. He also posted a 6.3 YPA on deep assist plays, a total that was the 10th best in that category. If these metrics are any indication, Kaesviharn might give Josh Bullocks a run for his money for the starting coverage safety spot.

Others:

Mike Minter:
Jarrad Page:
Nick Ferguson:
 

AsthmaField

Outta bounds
Messages
26,489
Reaction score
44,544
Commanders fan: "See, I told you Taylor was in the same class as Ed Reed!... Ownt!"
 

theogt

Surrealist
Messages
45,846
Reaction score
5,912
Hamlin might not be a savior but he's gotta be better than Watkins or Davis.
If he doesn't workout I'd still be happy seeing Henry move to FS.
 

tunahelper

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,682
Reaction score
2,156
Hamlin was somewhat handicapped by all the street corners playing for the Hawks?
 

superpunk

Well-Known Member
Messages
26,330
Reaction score
75
It's always nice when a statistical evaluation matches what you saw play out on Sundays. Even when countless other people continue to just pay attention to whatever the announcers gush over, and tell them to. For example - the INCOMPARABLE Ed Reed.

:rolleyes:

The only reason Polamalu wasn't mentioned is because he isn't back deep enough to register well on the deep assist metric, probably.
 

LeonDixson

Illegitimi non carborundum
Messages
12,299
Reaction score
6,808
theogt;1544732 said:
Hamlin might not be a savior but he's gotta be better than Watkins or Davis.
If he doesn't workout I'd still be happy seeing Henry move to FS.

You got it! Moving up from dead last to #19 is a huge improvement.
 

AsthmaField

Outta bounds
Messages
26,489
Reaction score
44,544
Honestly, I do think Taylor ranked so poorly because he was having to cover for sub-par teammates. Had he been on a very good defense his #'s would have likely been different.

However, I think the same thing also applies to Hamlin. That Seahawk secondary was shambles towards the end of the season, and it's no surprise that Hamlin's metrics aren't at the top. Even with Brian Russell ranking as an underrated safety, that still doesn't change the fact that the Seahawks secondary was in terrible shape the second half of the season.

Seems like I read somewhere that Hamlin's #'s were much better for the first half of the season... but I can't remember where I read that... or even IF I did.
 

LeonDixson

Illegitimi non carborundum
Messages
12,299
Reaction score
6,808
AsthmaField;1544745 said:
Honestly, I do think Taylor ranked so poorly because he was having to cover for sub-par teammates. Had he been on a very good defense his #'s would have likely been different.

However, I think the same thing also applies to Hamlin. That Seahawk secondary was shambles towards the end of the season, and it's no surprise that Hamlin's metrics aren't at the top. Even with Brian Russell ranking as an underrated safety, that still doesn't change the fact that the Seahawks secondary was in terrible shape the second half of the season.

Seems like I read somewhere that Hamlin's #'s were much better for the first half of the season... but I can't remember where I read that... or even IF I did.
You may be thinking of the numbers in the early part of the 05 season before the injury, compared to his numbers last year?? Just guessing.
 

theogt

Surrealist
Messages
45,846
Reaction score
5,912
AsthmaField;1544745 said:
Honestly, I do think Taylor ranked so poorly because he was having to cover for sub-par teammates. Had he been on a very good defense his #'s would have likely been different.

However, I think the same thing also applies to Hamlin. That Seahawk secondary was shambles towards the end of the season, and it's no surprise that Hamlin's metrics aren't at the top. Even with Brian Russell ranking as an underrated safety, that still doesn't change the fact that the Seahawks secondary was in terrible shape the second half of the season.

Seems like I read somewhere that Hamlin's #'s were much better for the first half of the season... but I can't remember where I read that... or even IF I did.
I completely agree regarding Taylor. He isnt nearly as bad a player as he looked in 06, but at least we can all get past this notion that hes anything special.
 

AsthmaField

Outta bounds
Messages
26,489
Reaction score
44,544
LeonDixson;1544747 said:
You may be thinking of the numbers in the early part of the 05 season before the injury, compared to his numbers last year?? Just guessing.


I don't know. Truly, I seem to remember reading that his metrics were good for the first 8 games and then bad for the last 8 games of the '06 season.

But I can't remember for sure, so maybe you're right and I'm just thinking of something I read about his pre/post injury play.

Still, I thought it said something about his teammates going down with injury last year and how that hindered his play...

Who knows? Likely, if I did read it, many others on here would have read it too... so if I'm the only one who remembers it, then I'm probably remembering it incorrectly.
 

LeonDixson

Illegitimi non carborundum
Messages
12,299
Reaction score
6,808
AsthmaField;1544752 said:
I don't know. Truly, I seem to remember reading that his metrics were good for the first 8 games and then bad for the last 8 games of the '06 season.

But I can't remember for sure, so maybe you're right and I'm just thinking of something I read about his pre/post injury play.

Still, I thought it said something about his teammates going down with injury last year and how that hindered his play...

Who knows? Likely, if I did read it, many others on here would have read it too... so if I'm the only one who remembers it, then I'm probably remembering it incorrectly.
Well you could definitely be correct. I wouldn't put my memory up for the remember'ers HOF; that's for sure.
 

Bob Sacamano

Benched
Messages
57,084
Reaction score
3
LeonDixson;1544753 said:
Well you could definitely be correct. I wouldn't put my memory up for the remember'ers HOF; that's for sure.

you're right, the metrics were of the year before Hamlin's injury, '05

and I would put my memory up for the remember'ers HOF :D
 

Yakuza Rich

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,043
Reaction score
12,385
AsthmaField;1544745 said:
Honestly, I do think Taylor ranked so poorly because he was having to cover for sub-par teammates. Had he been on a very good defense his #'s would have likely been different.

Perhaps. But he was terrible in coverage in '04, leading all safeties in TD's allowed that year. So in 2 out of 3 years of his career he's led all safeties in TD's allowed. Not to mention he was so great in run support last season that he led the league in missed tackles.

I don't question his athletic ability and I'm sure that the weak talent around him hurt his play in 2006, but he's had good talent around him before and still performed poorly.

However, I think the same thing also applies to Hamlin. That Seahawk secondary was shambles towards the end of the season, and it's no surprise that Hamlin's metrics aren't at the top.

The difference is that according to Joyner, Hamlin has been an excellent cover safety in every season of his career except last year, when he was coming off injury and he just turned 26 years old and didn't suffer an injury that would provide a drastic effect to his speed and quickness. If Hamlin was coming off a big injury like a torn ACL and/or was 30+ years old, I could see one logically deducing that there's a good chance that Hamlin's career as an effective cover safety is over with. But when a guy has been considered fantastic by Joyner in every year of his career besides last year, I think it's jumping the gun a bit to call him overrated.

The Ed Reed case is a bit of an interesting one because I've seen coaches film of him and the Ravens seem to ask him to do some crazy things. I've seen Reed originally line up as the slot corner in the nickel and before the snap sprint all the way out to the deep strong safety spot and try to cover from there. Joyner and I have talked about it, but I guess it's one of those things that you'd have to get an honest answer from the Ravens to figure out if Reed is freelancing or if they are asking him to do some wild things.





YAKUZA
 

MichaelWinicki

"You want some?"
Staff member
Messages
47,997
Reaction score
27,917
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
theogt;1544732 said:
Hamlin might not be a savior but he's gotta be better than Watkins or Davis.
If he doesn't workout I'd still be happy seeing Henry move to FS.


A lot of folks wanted us to sign Dwight Smith as he was some supposed "upgrade".

Guess not.
 

theogt

Surrealist
Messages
45,846
Reaction score
5,912
MichaelWinicki;1544778 said:
A lot of folks wanted us to sign Dwight Smith as he was some supposed "upgrade".

Guess not.
I did. And he would have been an upgrade. Significant one at that.
 

Dhragon

Deadly Claws of Death
Messages
1,957
Reaction score
1,308
So everyone thinks Joyner and his metrics are stupid when he says Newman is overrated ( posted on here not very long ago ) but not when he says Hamlin is just because he also thinks Reed and Taylor are as well.

Same arguments used in the Newman is overrated thread apply to Taylor, Reed and Hamlin ( personal opinion on who was supposed to cover who when handicapping players for one ).

His metrics are and will always be flawed because too much opinion and guesswork go into which stats should be included in the first place. Makes for an interesting read, but no one should attach any real meaning to his metrics.
 

Dhragon

Deadly Claws of Death
Messages
1,957
Reaction score
1,308
For all you guys who think his metrics are awesome, then here you go:

ESPN KC Joyner: Hall, Barber didn't earn Pro Bowl trips... Newman "overrated" blurb
By KC Joyner
ESPN Insider
(Archive)

Updated: June 27, 2007

This is the next installment in a series of articles about overrated and underrated players. The analysis is based primarily on the 2006 metrics, which can be found in "Scientific Football 2007." This week's topic is overrated and underrated cornerbacks.


Underrated Cornerbacks

Charles Woodson
Normally, I would not include Woodson in the underrated category because he is considered a very good cornerback. However, his 2006 metrics indicate he should have been a lock for the Pro Bowl.

Woodson had the sixth-lowest overall YPA in the league last year. He also had the second-best YPA among cornerbacks with more than 60 passes thrown their way. Only Champ Bailey beat him out in that category.

Woodson tied for the most stripped/dropped passes, and had the eighth-most forced incompletions. His six interceptions tied for sixth in the league and his 14 combined interceptions/near interceptions were the second most in the league. That Woodson was snubbed in favor of DeAngelo Hall and Ronde Barber for the Pro Bowl is a shame.

Nathan Vasher
The Bears recently signed Vasher to a contract extension, and the metrics indicate he certainly deserved it. His 6.0 YPA last year was the 12th best in the league. Vasher had good YPA numbers across the board, but his bomb pass YPA numbers were tremendous. He allowed zero completions in six bomb attempts and was even able to draw a 10-yard offensive pass interference call on one of the plays, thus making his YPA on bomb passes a superb -1.7 yards.

The main reason Vasher wasn't seen as a Pro Bowl-level cornerback is that his interception total dropped from eight in 2005 to three in 2006. Vasher did notch seven near interceptions last year, a total that ranked him second in the league in that category. If he can catch some of those near interceptions in 2007, a trip to Hawaii should be in his future.

Honorable mention
Johnathan Joseph: His 7.3 overall YPA was already very good, and if his poor performance against the Saints was removed, his YPA would drop to a mere 5.9 yards. He also helped the Bengals by leading the league in near interceptions (12).

Leigh Bodden: Only appeared in nine games for Cleveland last season, but had the third-best success percentage in the league, and led the NFL in forced incompletion percentage.

Al Harris: Was not quite as good as Woodson, but still ranked 18th in YPA and seventh in success percentage.

Charles Tillman: A 6.7 YPA, 52.1 success percentage and seven near interceptions indicate the Bears should do what they can to keep him around as well.


Overrated Cornerbacks

DeAngelo Hall
This is the second consecutive season Hall makes this list. He receives this honor because he once again made the Pro Bowl, despite posting simply abysmal metrics.

His 9.2 YPA ranked 76th among cornerbacks. Hall's 47.1 success percentage was solid (31st in the league), but his 17.9 missed pass percentage was one of the highest in the league. That means a large percentage of Hall's success was due to luck.

His supporters would point out that many of the big plays he allowed were due in part to not getting good help from the Falcons' safeties. That might be the case, but Hall's overall YPA was still only .8 yards better than Jason Webster's figure. Furthermore, Woodson had just as little help from the Packers' mediocre safeties and still put up great metrics.

Ronde Barber
Barber also didn't deserve a trip to the Pro Bowl. His 7.9 overall YPA was tied for 58th in the league, and his 37.6 success percentage was 76th. To put these numbers in perspective, Barber's YPA was equal to Terrence McGee's, and he ranked just below Carlos Rogers in success percentage.

Barber did have one great game last year, notching two interception returns for touchdowns in Tampa Bay's 23-21 win over Philadelphia in Week 7, but he had only one interception the rest of the year. He also only had three near interceptions. Barber is still a solid cornerback but to say he was one of the best in the NFC last year is simply not accurate.

Honorable mention
Will Allen: Allen is touted as the best cornerback on the Dolphins' roster, but his 38.8 success percentage was the worst of any qualifying cornerback on his team last year (30 pass attempts needed to qualify).

Marcus Trufant: His 9.0 YPA and 36.4 success percentage in 2006 didn't even measure up to his Seattle teammate Kelly Herndon, and Herndon was released this offseason.

Rashean Mathis: A starter in Jacksonville, Mathis has a number of really good metrics, but his 7.5 YPA is average and his 44.2 success percentage is borderline mediocre. He also allowed 22.3 YPA on the 10 combined corner/go/double move go passes thrown at him, so he definitely has a tendency to get beaten deep.

Terence Newman: He is considered much better than his Dallas teammate Anthony Henry, but Newman's 2006 overall YPA was only .4 yards higher than Henry's. He also ranked 57th in the missed pass percentage category, so luck was on his side.

KC Joyner, aka The Football Scientist, is a regular contributor to ESPN Insider. His core passing metrics can be found in the ESPN Fantasy Football Magazine, which hits newsstands on June 19. His latest release ("Scientific Football 2007") is available at his Web site.
 
Top