Kiper - Day 2 winners and questions....

[Risen Star]

He likes what the Eagles and Giants did on Day 2, questions the Cowboys.

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http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draf...t-mel-kiper-runs-winners-questions-rounds-2-3

The Cowboys took a reasonable risk on Randy Gregory at the end of Round 2. At his best, we're talking about one of the top 10 players in the entire draft. With Rod Marinelli there, you have a coach who can really take a player under his wing and maximize his potential. I was much less a fan of the Chaz Green addition. We all have different grades on players; I just thought Green was a guy the Cowboys might be able to get really late in the draft.

 

[darthseinfeld]

He likes what the Eagles and Giants did on Day 2, questions the Cowboys.

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http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draf...t-mel-kiper-runs-winners-questions-rounds-2-3

The Cowboys took a reasonable risk on Randy Gregory at the end of Round 2. At his best, we're talking about one of the top 10 players in the entire draft. With Rod Marinelli there, you have a coach who can really take a player under his wing and maximize his potential. I was much less a fan of the Chaz Green addition. We all have different grades on players; I just thought Green was a guy the Cowboys might be able to get really late in the draft.

To me Green has some value as a versatile player, but IMO you look for that type on day 3 and see if they can develope as a starter down the road while backing up multiple spots early. Even if Green is gone at 91, there are a few other guys ( Gibson) that can do what he is going to be expected at a later round.

And to me it was a blown opportunity. They had a chance to :

A: Add a very talented 3 Technique in Bennett or Jarrett who can both move back and forth from the one and the three. Both represent great value, would have been instant contributers and made our defensive line very formidable. It also gives us an option in case we don't want to extend Crawford at the end of the year

B: Secure your starting HB. Ajayi, Allen, Davis are all worthy picks at 90 and we can leave day 2 knowing our needs have been met

 

[visionary]

This is turning out to be a true boom or bust draft from my perspective

Jones is an athlete who didn't play much last year and needs to learn to play cb but has insane athleticism

Gregory gas top 10 talent but is a pot head , several character issues and most importantly is way too light to play de and is not a lb

Green was a major reach

BUT

If all these guys hit we could have starting cb/fs, great DE, and starting OT

Personally I'm not a fan of this approach as the risk is just too great IMO

 

[darthseinfeld]

This is turning out to be a true boom or bust draft from my perspective

Jones is an athlete who didn't play much last year and needs to learn to play cb but has insane athleticism

Gregory gas top 10 talent but is a pot head , several character issues and most importantly is way too light to play de and is not a lb

Green was a major reach

BUT

If all these guys hit we could have starting cb/fs, great DE, and starting OT

Personally I'm not a fan of this approach as the risk is just too great IMO

You make alot of good points, but I will say this

If you hit in these guys, your a consistent 12-13 win team. We won 12 last be, but I dont think that is sustainable. We won 12 games with 10 win talent. Overachieving like that hurts you a little on draft day

 

[Maxmadden]

Seems like a little bit of a reach but if you really like the player you go and get him. Too many times in the past a guy the Cowboys really liked, was snatched up a few picks before.

 

[morasp]

I don't think this draft class will end up being one of the better ones. I like that they are getting guys with good "football" character, at least it improves the chances of hitting on picks.

 

[burmafrd]

I think this is like when we grabbed Fredrick; we thought more highly of him then others did and the way the Tackles were going off the board I think frankly we panicked a little and grabbed him a round early at the least.

this is the reality:

If he becomes our future RT and does a good job its a good pick. If he only becomes the next Parnell then it was a serious reach.

 

[waving monkey]

I cant judge yet I'm still high off the Gregory selection
Boom or Bust is a fair 'take' at this point but like I said
I haven't come down yet

 

[Risen Star]

I think this is like when we grabbed Fredrick; we thought more highly of him then others did and the way the Tackles were going off the board I think frankly we panicked a little and grabbed him a round early at the least.

this is the reality:

If he becomes our future RT and does a good job its a good pick. If he only becomes the next Parnell then it was a serious reach.

Actually whether he's a reach or not pertains to value in the draft not performance in the NFL. The value is the price tag on the player. If the Cowboys took what 31 other teams thought was a 7th round pick in the 3rd round, they reached. Regardless if he goes on to be Anthony Munoz on PEDs.

The Cowboys reached on Green, but I like the player. I really do. Just hate the spot. We missed out on a good talent in the 3rd round.

 

[DBOY3141]

Actually whether he's a reach or not pertains to value in the draft not performance in the NFL. The value is the price tag on the player. If the Cowboys took what 31 other teams thought was a 7th round pick in the 3rd round, they reached. Regardless if he goes on to be Anthony Munoz on PEDs.

The Cowboys reached on Green, but I like the player. I really do. Just hate the spot. We missed out on a good talent in the 3rd round.

Agree. Seems teams are reaching more this year. Wonder if they feel it's a shallow draft.

 

[unionjack8]

I thought Green was a little high b ut if you have that grade on the player then you take him, regardless ofhow media draftniks grade him.

Also, i really dont see Jay Ajayi coming in and being anything otehr than a change of pace back, RB is NOT that big of a need imo. Darren McFadden et al can give us 1700 combined yards on the ground imo, the guy has talent, lets see what he can do.

 

[Risen Star]

I thought Green was a little high b ut if you have that grade on the player then you take him, regardless ofhow media draftniks grade him.

Also, i really dont see Jay Ajayi coming in and being anything otehr than a change of pace back, RB is NOT that big of a need imo. Darren McFadden et al can give us 1700 combined yards on the ground imo, the guy has talent, lets see what he can do.

You dropped a steamer on the carpet with that McFadden comment.

Coming away without a significant RB added will be a real disappointment. I refuse to accept the slop we have at that position.

 

[Oh_Canada]

Actually whether he's a reach or not pertains to value in the draft not performance in the NFL. The value is the price tag on the player. If the Cowboys took what 31 other teams thought was a 7th round pick in the 3rd round, they reached. Regardless if he goes on to be Anthony Munoz on PEDs.

The Cowboys reached on Green, but I like the player. I really do. Just hate the spot. We missed out on a good talent in the 3rd round.

But you LOVED the Giants pick of Flowers in the first who was projected to go late first. To me that's just as large a reach as the talent drop off between a high first rounder in this draft and later is precipitous. Everyone is basing the entire evaluation on websites and projections of those websites and not actual talent or ability. I bet you Mel Kiper never watched more than two minutes of film on this guy if that. If Green is a player it does not matter where he is taken because we have zero idea what NFL teams thought of him, only a bunch of internet scouts who paid no attention.

 

[xwalker]

To me Green has some value as a versatile player, but IMO you look for that type on day 3 and see if they can develope as a starter down the road while backing up multiple spots early. Even if Green is gone at 91, there are a few other guys ( Gibson) that can do what he is going to be expected at a later round.

And to me it was a blown opportunity. They had a chance to :

A: Add a very talented 3 Technique in Bennett or Jarrett who can both move back and forth from the one and the three. Both represent great value, would have been instant contributers and made our defensive line very formidable. It also gives us an option in case we don't want to extend Crawford at the end of the year

B: Secure your starting HB. Ajayi, Allen, Davis are all worthy picks at 90 and we can leave day 2 knowing our needs have been met

Green can play this year, Gibson can't, IMO. They were my 2 favorite mid/late OTs but Green is much more developed as a player. Gibson has high upside but is very raw.

I have no idea if Green would be available a round later, but he is better than many of the reports that I've seen. I really don't think the draft media put a lot of effort in players after the top 50 to 75 on their board.

We should have learned from the Hitchens ordeal about the draft media being wrong about a player's ranking.

 

[DBOY3141]

Green can play this year, Gibson can't, IMO. They were my 2 favorite mid/late OTs but Green is much more developed as a player. Gibson has high upside but is very raw.

I have no idea if Green would be available a round later, but he is better than many of the reports that I've seen. I really don't think the draft media put a lot of effort in players after the top 50 to 75 on their board.

We should have learned from the Hitchens ordeal about the draft media being wrong about a player's ranking.

Kiper was giving NE a little slack for taking a DE in the 3rd that he said was a 6 or 7 round pick. NE kinda knows what they are doing.

 

[NorthwestDallas40]

To me Green has some value as a versatile player, but IMO you look for that type on day 3 and see if they can develope as a starter down the road while backing up multiple spots early. Even if Green is gone at 91, there are a few other guys ( Gibson) that can do what he is going to be expected at a later round.

And to me it was a blown opportunity. They had a chance to :

A: Add a very talented 3 Technique in Bennett or Jarrett who can both move back and forth from the one and the three. Both represent great value, would have been instant contributers and made our defensive line very formidable. It also gives us an option in case we don't want to extend Crawford at the end of the year

B: Secure your starting HB. Ajayi, Allen, Davis are all worthy picks at 90 and we can leave day 2 knowing our needs have been met

I agree. But I trust the FO and like what I've seen on tape from Green. I think the FO believes he is very talented and can save a roster spot on game day because he can play swing T and G equally well.

 

[xwalker]

Kiper was giving NE a little slack for taking a DE in the 3rd that he said was a 6 or 7 round pick. NE kinda knows what they are doing.

Geneo Grissom was ranking 212 by CBS. The Pats took him at 97.

 

[Risen Star]

But you LOVED the Giants pick of Flowers in the first who was projected to go late first. To me that's just as large a reach as the talent drop off between a high first rounder in this draft and later is precipitous. Everyone is basing the entire evaluation on websites and projections of those websites and not actual talent or ability. I bet you Mel Kiper never watched more than two minutes of film on this guy if that. If Green is a player it does not matter where he is taken because we have zero idea what NFL teams thought of him, only a bunch of internet scouts who paid no attention.

What a ridiculous response. Be gone.

 

[DBOY3141]

Geneo Grissom was ranking 212 by CBS. The Pats took him at 97.

Yep..looks like quite a few teams are reaching based on media rankings

 

[MichaelWinicki]

We should have learned from the Hitchens ordeal about the draft media being wrong about a player's ranking.

That.

Obviously what Dallas values as an offensive linemen is varying from what others are using to value offensive linemen.

The Cowboys are seeing the intelligence the kid has along with his mobility and zone blocking skills as more than offsetting his lack of functional strength (which can be greatly improved over time) and his injury past.