Kiper - Day 2 winners and questions....

[JBS]

Actually whether he's a reach or not pertains to value in the draft not performance in the NFL. The value is the price tag on the player. If the Cowboys took what 31 other teams thought was a 7th round pick in the 3rd round, they reached. Regardless if he goes on to be Anthony Munoz on PEDs.

The Cowboys reached on Green, but I like the player. I really do. Just hate the spot. We missed out on a good talent in the 3rd round.

This is an accurate way to assess things...however, we have no idea what other teams thought of the player...and secondly, let's not pretend like these Internet scouts know everything...they all have the same opinion on just about every player...

I'm not suggesting green was a good pick...it's just annoying to me that all these Internet scouts just mimic each other and they all have the same opinions on every player every year

 

[Risen Star]

This is an accurate way to assess things...however, we have no idea what other teams thought of the player...and secondly, let's not pretend like these Internet scouts know everything...they all have the same opinion on just about every player...

I'm not suggesting green was a good pick...it's just annoying to me that all these Internet scouts just mimic each other and they all have the same opinions on every player every year

I can only go with what the information privy to me. I'm not interested in changing my opinion to appease a bunch of sensitive baby fans.

It works the other way too. Randy Gregory was a steal at 60, right? But wait...how do we really KNOW what other teams really thought? Let's all just wait and see and have no opinion. Unless it's positive. In that case, by all means...have at it.

Green was a definite reach to me. By at least two rounds.

 

[jrumann59]

The thing that bothers me is the one injury green had surgery for and missed the season, torn labrum. given I am not a 300lbs OL but I lived and worked with a torn labrum for 10 years, they are not an inury that requires immediate surgery for the most part. Just found it fishy he decided to miss significant playing time in season for this injury.

 

[Bluestang]

FWIW, Dane Brugler graded him out at a 2nd/3rd round talent, but he knocked him because of his injury history.

If Green can take over Free's spot by the middle to late this season I would say the pick would have been successful.

Green is going to get his chance during the OTAs to show what kind of player he is...Free won't be ready until camp.

 

[unionjack8]

You dropped a steamer on the carpet with that McFadden comment.

Coming away without a significant RB added will be a real disappointment. I refuse to accept the slop we have at that position.

LOL, right now there isnt a back left in this class that would start for us, in fact i think there was only 3 that would have

 

[Risen Star]

LOL, right now there isnt a back left in this class that would start for us, in fact i think there was only 3 that would have

Well then this was an amazingly untalented RB class if only three of these players can beat out a 3.3 yards per carry career failure in Oakland and roster fillers behind him. The talent level at RB on this team is about as marginal as they come.

I'm going to go with you're wrong.

 

[Idgit]

They reached, because they think he can play at a high level and wanted to lock him down. That's ok. It's more important that they be right and he can play.

 

[Idgit]

LOL, right now there isnt a back left in this class that would start for us, in fact i think there was only 3 that would have

You're more right than Risen is in this thread, but I'm not sure there aren't a couple backs left who wouldn't be upgrades. We are getting to the point where the improvement could be minimal, though.

We're only carrying three backs, and they like Randle and Dunbar quite a bit. Langford, Ajayi, and maybe Davis would all be upgrades for us, but I agree that the gap is not as significant as many think it is.

 

[daveferr33]

We should have learned from the Hitchens ordeal about the draft media being wrong about a player's ranking.

So I guess that's that then? Cowboys right in this one instance based on the sample size of one season and henceforth the cowboys can never be wrong again and the media rankings can never be right?

I can play that game as well.

The Cowboys reached on Matt Johnson in the 4th. I guess from that ordeal we should have learned about the Cowboys being wrong and the media rankings being right?

The point is you just can't know in these later rounds. But can we please stop pretending just because Hitchens had a good rookie season that the debate is over and henceforth the cowboys can do no wrong.

 

[xwalker]

So I guess that's that then? Cowboys right in this one instance based on the sample size of one season and henceforth the cowboys can never be wrong again and the media rankings can never be right?

I can play that game as well.

The Cowboys reached on Matt Johnson in the 4th. I guess from that ordeal we should have learned about the Cowboys being wrong and the media rankings being right?

The point is you just can't know in these later rounds. But can we please stop pretending just because Hitchens had a good rookie season that the debate is over and henceforth the cowboys can do no wrong.

They would do the Matt Johnson pick again based purely on talent. He failed due to injuries not a lack of talent. The coaches loved him.

There is also the Frederick pick. Fans and media had a meltdown on that one also with many claiming he should have been a 3rd round pick.

People that get wound up about "reaches" based on the draft media rankings, never point out how inaccurate the draft media is going the other way. Jackson Jeffcoat was ranked as a 2nd/3rd rounder by many of the draft media and he went undrafted. It is easy to see the draft media was wrong in those situations; however, there is really no way to know the draft media is wrong when a team takes the player earlier than ranked until a year or two later.

Green was not universally ranked low. I've seen some draft media mocks with him in the 4th round. The Cowboys 3rd round pick was very close to being a 4th round pick. I had Green in the 4th in a mock that I did a few weeks ago.

 

[texbumthelife]

I think this is like when we grabbed Fredrick; we thought more highly of him then others did and the way the Tackles were going off the board I think frankly we panicked a little and grabbed him a round early at the least.

this is the reality:

If he becomes our future RT and does a good job its a good pick. If he only becomes the next Parnell then it was a serious reach.

We took Freebeard early by most accounts, but wasn't he also considered the top at his position though? I read Green wasn't even in the top 15 at his position on most boards. Then again, pretty much everyone says that its only because of his injuries. Taking guys who fall due to injuries is absolutely our M.O. so it makes a lot of sense. Particularly when you factor in he's being brought in as the swing and may never actually start a game outside of injuries.

I didn't like it at first, but I feel very comfortable with it after reading about the kid. He seems to me to be very similar to the Jones pick. He's a very smart, very athletic, high character kid who had some injury issues but projects to develop into a very nice player potentially.

 

[texbumthelife]

They would do the Matt Johnson pick again based purely on talent. He failed due to injuries not a lack of talent. The coaches loved him.

There is also the Frederick pick. Fans and media had a meltdown on that one also with many claiming he should have been a 3rd round pick.

People that get wound up about "reaches" based on the draft media rankings, never point out how inaccurate the draft media is going the other way. Jackson Jeffcoat was ranked as a 2nd/3rd rounder by many of the draft media and he went undrafted. It is easy to see the draft media was wrong in those situations; however, there is really no way to know the draft media is wrong when a team takes the player earlier than ranked until a year or two later.

Green was not universally ranked low. I've seen some draft media mocks with him in the 4th round. The Cowboys 3rd round pick was very close to being a 4th round pick. I had Green in the 4th in a mock that I did a few weeks ago.

And even those that mocked him that low, admit it is because of the injury issues. From the scouting report, he sounds like a perfect swing tackle who is made for a zone scheme. He is super agile and smart.

 

[xwalker]

And even those that mocked him that low, admit it is because of the injury issues. From the scouting report, he sounds like a perfect swing tackle who is made for a zone scheme. He is super agile and smart.

Yes, it's really hard to put a ranking on injury and character issues players.

I'm not really trying to slam the draft media. If I were them I would also focus on the top 100 players way more than the remaining ones. The average fan is most interested in the 1st round and the players they've heard about unless it's a unique situation like Michael Sam where everybody had heard about him.

 

[JBS]

I can only go with what the information privy to me. I'm not interested in changing my opinion to appease a bunch of sensitive baby fans.

It works the other way too. Randy Gregory was a steal at 60, right? But wait...how do we really KNOW what other teams really thought? Let's all just wait and see and have no opinion. Unless it's positive. In that case, by all means...have at it.

Green was a definite reach to me. By at least two rounds.

No. You are right. I'm just more annoyed that all of the guys who study players online all think the same thing about every player...I think it's stupid

 

[texbumthelife]

Yes, it's really hard to put a ranking on injury and character issues players.

I'm not really trying to slam the draft media. If I were them I would also focus on the top 100 players way more than the remaining ones. The average fan is most interested in the 1st round and the players they've heard about unless it's a unique situation like Michael Sam where everybody had heard about him.

I totally agree. The draft media gets access to far more tape and interviews than even some of the most diehard fans, that can sometimes be a double edge sword though. Sometimes you can get caught up in the measurements, interviews or injuries and lose sight of the kids production.

I like the Green pick. I really like how athletic they make him sound. I like that he's not a tweener G/T, he's a pure T.

 

[texbumthelife]

No. You are right. I'm just more annoyed that all of the guys who study players online all think the same thing about every player...I think it's stupid

That couldn't be further from the truth. I can't stand the Byron Jones pick while some of the more astute draft guys around here love him. Even we have a wide birth of opinions.

 

[xwalker]

I totally agree. The draft media gets access to far more tape and interviews than even some of the most diehard fans, that can sometimes be a double edge sword though. Sometimes you can get caught up in the measurements, interviews or injuries and lose sight of the kids production.

I like the Green pick. I really like how athletic they make him sound. I like that he's not a tweener G/T, he's a pure T.

Yes, there are about 300 players with the potential to be drafted. If an media analysts spent 1 hour evaluating each one, that's 300 hours of watch game tape.

 

[texbumthelife]

Yes, there are about 300 players with the potential to be drafted. If an media analysts spent 1 hour evaluating each one, that's 300 hours of watch game tape.

All in a days work...

 

[jjktkk]

Well then this was an amazingly untalented RB class if only three of these players can beat out a 3.3 yards per carry career failure in Oakland and roster fillers behind him. The talent level at RB on this team is about as marginal as they come.

I'm going to go with you're wrong.

Yea because Oakland has such a great Oline, even a high school rb could gain 2000 yards.

 

[cowboyvic]

You dropped a steamer on the carpet with that McFadden comment.

Coming away without a significant RB added will be a real disappointment. I refuse to accept the slop we have at that position.[/quote
This team does not need a RB. i told you guys that this team needs DEFENSE DEFENSE DEFENSE. and every pick but one so far has been defense.