Kiper - Day 2 winners and questions....

[Derinyar]

Yea because Oakland has such a great Oline, even a high school rb could gain 2000 yards.

McFadden had decent running years in the couple of years that the Raiders had a decent line. I think we will get to see if he's a good back or not this year, his first year with a legitimate offense around him. Would have loved a younger guy, but can't fault the picks we made at the time we made them.

 

[Macnalty]

We have all seen the RB's and it is not that difficult to evaluate their talent from training camp.
I believe they think they have something in Williams for to have this kind of faith in Randle/McFadden and Dunbar is pure hubris. Williams last year stood out at training camp both for his talent and his deficits. A year on the practice squad may have closed the open wound on the pass protection and knee injury this would help explain the confidence.
If this is true, exciting times ahead as we have coached up a player that can really contribute behind this leviathan line and that is what good teams can accomplish. Of course just my opinion in early May no media input to verify.

 

[Longboysfan]

Question: Why quote Del Kupper.
Try some draft anaylst with good information.

 

[xwalker]

To me Green has some value as a versatile player, but IMO you look for that type on day 3 and see if they can develope as a starter down the road while backing up multiple spots early. Even if Green is gone at 91, there are a few other guys ( Gibson) that can do what he is going to be expected at a later round.

And to me it was a blown opportunity. They had a chance to :

A: Add a very talented 3 Technique in Bennett or Jarrett who can both move back and forth from the one and the three. Both represent great value, would have been instant contributers and made our defensive line very formidable. It also gives us an option in case we don't want to extend Crawford at the end of the year

B: Secure your starting HB. Ajayi, Allen, Davis are all worthy picks at 90 and we can leave day 2 knowing our needs have been met

No, I said before the draft where I tried to fit both Gibson and Green into a mock, that Green was way ahead of Gibson as a football player. Gibson has excellent physical upside, but is very raw as a football player. Green is a ready now type player that was downgraded because of injuries. There is a lot of value in a player that is ready to contribute vs one that has not chance to contribute as a rookie. The ready now aspect if worth bumping Green from and 4th to a late 3rd, IMO.

 

[xwalker]

But you LOVED the Giants pick of Flowers in the first who was projected to go late first. To me that's just as large a reach as the talent drop off between a high first rounder in this draft and later is precipitous. Everyone is basing the entire evaluation on websites and projections of those websites and not actual talent or ability. I bet you Mel Kiper never watched more than two minutes of film on this guy if that. If Green is a player it does not matter where he is taken because we have zero idea what NFL teams thought of him, only a bunch of internet scouts who paid no attention.

Super excellent post!

 

[dallasdave]

Actually whether he's a reach or not pertains to value in the draft not performance in the NFL. The value is the price tag on the player. If the Cowboys took what 31 other teams thought was a 7th round pick in the 3rd round, they reached. Regardless if he goes on to be Anthony Munoz on PEDs.

The Cowboys reached on Green, but I like the player. I really do. Just hate the spot. We missed out on a good talent in the 3rd round.

Total agreement Cowboys took Green way too early.

 

[dallasdave]

He likes what the Eagles and Giants did on Day 2, questions the Cowboys.

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http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draf...t-mel-kiper-runs-winners-questions-rounds-2-3

The Cowboys took a reasonable risk on Randy Gregory at the end of Round 2. At his best, we're talking about one of the top 10 players in the entire draft. With Rod Marinelli there, you have a coach who can really take a player under his wing and maximize his potential. I was much less a fan of the Chaz Green addition. We all have different grades on players; I just thought Green was a guy the Cowboys might be able to get really late in the draft.

Yes, Green could have been had in the 6th round. The OL we took in the 7th round was rated just 1 below him, I was not a fan of this pick in the 3rd round.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Total agreement Cowboys took Green way too early.

Oh you've seen the Cowboy draft board so you know where they valued him?

Did it ever occur to you that they took him there for a reason or do you think they just pulled his name out of a hat and went with that?

And what makes you think he would have still been there in the 6th round? Accept the fact they wanted this player so they drafted him where they felt his value was to our team.

 

[dallasdave]

Oh you've seen the Cowboy draft board so you know where they valued him?

Did it ever occur to you that they took him there for a reason or do you think they just pulled his name out of a hat and went with that?

And what makes you think he would have still been there in the 6th round? Accept the fact they wanted this player so they drafted him where they felt his value was to our team.

Hey I was agreeing with Risen- I don't see you talking stuff to him.

 

[dallasdave]

Oh you've seen the Cowboy draft board so you know where they valued him?

Did it ever occur to you that they took him there for a reason or do you think they just pulled his name out of a hat and went with that?

And what makes you think he would have still been there in the 6th round? Accept the fact they wanted this player so they drafted him where they felt his value was to our team.

Why don't you say something to the person I agreed with, huh? I know why. He would make you look like a 5 year old.

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

Most thought Frederick was a reach and questioned other top flight OLine acquisitions, so gotta give the benefit of a doubt.

 

[dallasdave]

Most thought Frederick was a reach and questioned other top flight OLine acquisitions, so gotta give the benefit of a doubt.

I hope he does work out.

Most thought Frederick was a reach and questioned other top flight OLine acquisitions, so gotta give the benefit of a doubt.

I hope he does work out, I really do. I was stating I was in agreement with Risen, when big dog came said how he felt, but he won't say it to the person who said it. All of the other moderators have always been fair and nice but this guy is always negative about any thing I say.

 

[dallasdave]

Oh you've seen the Cowboy draft board so you know where they valued him?

Did it ever occur to you that they took him there for a reason or do you think they just pulled his name out of a hat and went with that?

And what makes you think he would have still been there in the 6th round? Accept the fact they wanted this player so they drafted him where they felt his value was to our team.

Chaz Green

Scouts Inc., ESPN: 15th rated OT, 133rd player overall, 5th round projection.Green has had some problems staying healthy, and he has been overshadowed by teammate D.J. Humphries during the pre-draft process, but the team captain and three-year starter has prototypical height and weight with adequate arm length for a right tackle prospect. He gets into position and flashes the ability to move defenders off the ball as a run-blocker. He has some problems dealing with speed rushers, but he also flashes the ability to push speed rushers past the pocket and recover when he gives ground to speed-to-power initially in pass protection.

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Frank Coyle, Draft Insiders Digest: 21st rated OT, 222nd player overall, 7th round projection.Displays the athleticism, intelligence and versatility to possibly play any of the five OL positions, but may lack one spot where he really stands out. His quick feet and movement skills should make him attractive to zone blocking scheme teams. Needs to develop his functional strength and pass blocking technique if he wants to be a regular starter. However lineman with his positional flexibility are highly desirable on NFL rosters since usually no more than seven of them are active on game days. Good late gamble and prospect with the skill set and experience that graded out fairly high versus top competition. Make it grade if he proves healthy.

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Nolan Nawrocki: 20th rated OT, Not in top 150 overall, 7th round projection.A big, finesse swing tackle prospect that has struggled to stay healthy in college and lacks the ideal core strength for the front lines. Could be very well suited for a backup role in a zone blocking scheme and has enough talent and desire to develop.

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Dane Brugler, NFL Draft Scout: 15th rated OT, Not in top 100 overall, 5th-6th round projection.A very tough player both physically and mentally, Green would be better known as an NFL prospect if not for his injury history. His skill set doesn't scream special, but he's very consistent when on the field, playing like a seasoned veteran in pass protection with the body control, feet and instincts to mirror in his kickslide. He needs to refine his technique and intensity as a run blocker, but his movement skills allow him to block with range. Green offers position versatility and has more strengths than weaknesses, but the fragile tag will be tough to shake as he repeatedly dealt with injuries over his career. Worth a late round pick if the medical report doesn't report lingering damage.
Last edited: May 2, 2015


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In Rod God TrustJust thought you might want to look at this , I agree with this but it was posted by Risen.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Hey I was agreeing with Risen- I don't see you talking stuff to him.

Great post. How does that answer any of the questions?

 

[Derinyar]

Green by internet scouts was a reach. Green by our board we will never know. If the Cowboys thought Green was the one of the last couple of capable swing tackles on the board I can fully understand them reaching for him right there. We had to have a swing tackle coming out of this draft, and with Collins and Clemmings falling down due to their issues it pushed the tackles up some.

 

[dallasdave]

Great post. How does that answer any of the questions?

Chaz Green

Scouts Inc., ESPN: 15th rated OT, 133rd player overall, 5th round projection.Green has had some problems staying healthy, and he has been overshadowed by teammate D.J. Humphries during the pre-draft process, but the team captain and three-year starter has prototypical height and weight with adequate arm length for a right tackle prospect. He gets into position and flashes the ability to move defenders off the ball as a run-blocker. He has some problems dealing with speed rushers, but he also flashes the ability to push speed rushers past the pocket and recover when he gives ground to speed-to-power initially in pass protection.

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Frank Coyle, Draft Insiders Digest: 21st rated OT, 222nd player overall, 7th round projection.Displays the athleticism, intelligence and versatility to possibly play any of the five OL positions, but may lack one spot where he really stands out. His quick feet and movement skills should make him attractive to zone blocking scheme teams. Needs to develop his functional strength and pass blocking technique if he wants to be a regular starter. However lineman with his positional flexibility are highly desirable on NFL rosters since usually no more than seven of them are active on game days. Good late gamble and prospect with the skill set and experience that graded out fairly high versus top competition. Make it grade if he proves healthy.

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Nolan Nawrocki: 20th rated OT, Not in top 150 overall, 7th round projection.A big, finesse swing tackle prospect that has struggled to stay healthy in college and lacks the ideal core strength for the front lines. Could be very well suited for a backup role in a zone blocking scheme and has enough talent and desire to develop.

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Dane Brugler, NFL Draft Scout: 15th rated OT, Not in top 100 overall, 5th-6th round projection.A very tough player both physically and mentally, Green would be better known as an NFL prospect if not for his injury history. His skill set doesn't scream special, but he's very consistent when on the field, playing like a seasoned veteran in pass protection with the body control, feet and instincts to mirror in his kickslide. He needs to refine his technique and intensity as a run blocker, but his movement skills allow him to block with range. Green offers position versatility and has more strengths than weaknesses, but the fragile tag will be tough to shake as he repeatedly dealt with injuries over his career. Worth a late round pick if the medical report doesn't report lingering damage.
Last edited: May 2, 2015


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In Rod God TrustJust thought you might want to look at this , I agree with this but it was posted by Risen--these are sports writers see their value of Green

 

[big dog cowboy]

Chaz Green

Scouts Inc., ESPN: 15th rated OT, 133rd player overall, 5th round projection.Green has had some problems staying healthy, and he has been overshadowed by teammate D.J. Humphries during the pre-draft process, but the team captain and three-year starter has prototypical height and weight with adequate arm length for a right tackle prospect. He gets into position and flashes the ability to move defenders off the ball as a run-blocker. He has some problems dealing with speed rushers, but he also flashes the ability to push speed rushers past the pocket and recover when he gives ground to speed-to-power initially in pass protection.

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Frank Coyle, Draft Insiders Digest: 21st rated OT, 222nd player overall, 7th round projection.Displays the athleticism, intelligence and versatility to possibly play any of the five OL positions, but may lack one spot where he really stands out. His quick feet and movement skills should make him attractive to zone blocking scheme teams. Needs to develop his functional strength and pass blocking technique if he wants to be a regular starter. However lineman with his positional flexibility are highly desirable on NFL rosters since usually no more than seven of them are active on game days. Good late gamble and prospect with the skill set and experience that graded out fairly high versus top competition. Make it grade if he proves healthy.

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Nolan Nawrocki: 20th rated OT, Not in top 150 overall, 7th round projection.A big, finesse swing tackle prospect that has struggled to stay healthy in college and lacks the ideal core strength for the front lines. Could be very well suited for a backup role in a zone blocking scheme and has enough talent and desire to develop.

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Dane Brugler, NFL Draft Scout: 15th rated OT, Not in top 100 overall, 5th-6th round projection.A very tough player both physically and mentally, Green would be better known as an NFL prospect if not for his injury history. His skill set doesn't scream special, but he's very consistent when on the field, playing like a seasoned veteran in pass protection with the body control, feet and instincts to mirror in his kickslide. He needs to refine his technique and intensity as a run blocker, but his movement skills allow him to block with range. Green offers position versatility and has more strengths than weaknesses, but the fragile tag will be tough to shake as he repeatedly dealt with injuries over his career. Worth a late round pick if the medical report doesn't report lingering damage.
Last edited: May 2, 2015

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In Rod God TrustJust thought you might want to look at this , I agree with this but it was posted by Risen--these are sports writers see their value of Green

Great post. How does that answer any of the questions?

 

[dallasdave]

Great post. How does that answer any of the questions?

Before I answer your question why don't you answer mine. Why don't you say something to Risen ? He was the one that posted those two threads about Green. You know he would destroy anything you try to say, and the Green pick would look even worse if that is possible.

 

[dallasdave]

Well I guess my question wont be answered, no guts no glory.

 

[dallasdave]

Byron Jones CB - We are going to like this kid quickly. I wasn't crazy about this pick but after watching him he is going to be good. Its just matter of how good. Good size and thing that really jumps out is his coverage skills. He is all over the WR. Will have to see how his turnover skills evolve. Comes off intelligent in interviews and would not surprise me if he is one of team leaders on defense in few years.

Randy Gregory DE - I was little worried about this pick after listening to broaddus basically saying he doesn't have any moves other than just speed to edge. What I saw was high motor, tenacious desire to get to QB. He will need to add about 20 lbs of good weight because he is light and good tackle will push him out of play. On 2nd day he showed inside move that even surprised broaddus (you could hear Marinelli cursing in background to get the **** off the ball). We have to see how he handles the mental aspect when proven NFL tackle is kicking his rear-end. Will be interesting to see how this pick shakes out.

Chaz Green OT - of all draft picks he has struggled most. Undrafted DE were working him over. His first step lacks explosiveness and he doesn't know how to punch yet. Seeing how far behind he is I think Dallas should have gone RB with this pick. But with big OL they take time and he could turn out good. He doesn't look much better than their 7th rounder.

Damion Wilson LB - looks good. Good lateral quickness and has that look like he wants to hit someone. We will have to wait for pads to go on to get better idea of what he brings.

Ryan Russell DE - big kid. Not much strength coach needs to work on with him. He showed burst and bull rush that really showed off his power. If they can get him to be nasty on field he is going to be problem for OL. Him are Gregory are total opposite types of players. Needs work on initial burst and Marinelli was hammering away at that point.

Laurence Gibson - looks like piece of **** out there. Flabby and not well conditioned. He does have some power and long hair so there is some hope. Put him on practice squad for year.

Geoff Swaim - I hated trading up for this pick on draft day. After watching some videos of him for past two days....I take it back. Great draft pick. The original reports on him were of blocking TE. I see athletic TE who has ball skills. Runs good routes, ideal size and probably just wasn't utilized in college to catch ball. I can easily see him replace Hannah as soon as this year.

Conclusion: your big upside players are: Jones & Gregory. This talent is apparent. Gregory has way to go but Jones looks almost NFL ready. Chaz Green has bust potential. If Ryan Russell gets serious Dallas has starter. Swaim will surprise you.
Wood, Yesterday at 11:58 PM Report
Wood posted This and I point out his take on Green Chaz Green OT - of all draft picks he has struggled most. Undrafted DE were working him over. His first step lacks explosiveness and he doesn't know how to punch yet. Seeing how far behind he is I think Dallas should have gone RB with this pick. But with big OL they take time and he could turn out good. He doesn't look much better than their 7th rounder.