News: Kitna and Moore to take Cowboys to next level with spread offense

ondaedg

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OH JEESH. This will be interesting if true. Not sure if I would go this route considering our personnel. That's not how the oline is built. They are a powerful mauling oline...not smaller olineman that pull. Connor Williams may be the only guy that would do well in this scheme. Like the idea , but not sure we have the right players for it.

Completely disagree . Technically they can seal a lane better than any OL out there. There are no roadgrader lines anymore thanks to our 90s teams. Since then alot of Casey Hamptons and Ted Washingtons and Vince Wilforks. The less bunched up the more effective our OL will be. Mash them together and they just become bodies in a pile.
 

ondaedg

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I am/was so sick of seeing that on every drive.

And whenever Noah Brown checks into the game, you KNOW it's a run.

The Rams run 3wr, 1 TE, and 1rb sets and ran into 8-man boxes less than any other team. Mcvay recognized that RBs need space to get yards up the middle. We apparently just got the memo.
 

ondaedg

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There is always this talk of new offense JG kept saying he was going to run the ball didn’t happen till he wasn’t OC then they kept drafting TE to be like the Pats never saw that last year Scott was coming out with a new offense he had studied the RPO and was going to use it saw a little here and there but basically Scott’s offense which is basically JG’s offense now the new hot kid is on the block and he has the good stuff funny this kid spent the last few years under Scott and JG. Basically I’ll believe this new offense when I see it.

Ya we used to have an annual 2nd round TE draft pick drinking game. Got me hammered like - every year.
 

ondaedg

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Garrett isn’t going anywhere if the offense succeeds. That’s the beauty of his position. Kellen will get offers for HC if the offense is Rams like. We are forever stuck with Garrett.

Firing Garrett is like handing JJ a hatchet and asking him to cut his own hand off.
 

gmoney112

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The Rams run 3wr, 1 TE, and 1rb sets and ran into 8-man boxes less than any other team. Mcvay recognized that RBs need space to get yards up the middle. We apparently just got the memo.

Yep. McVay is a really good coach. He ran that set with a bunch of different looks, tight to the line of scrimmage, out wide, using a lot of motion and play action, and zone flood principles to help Goff.

A lot of people didn't recognize it, but what he did against us was a thing of beauty. I noticed it after they had a couple drives.

For all the talk about "Tampa 2", we're a Cover 3, Cover 1 heavy team, with other alignments out of nickel, dime coverages.

A way to take advantage of those coverages is to line up tight to the LOS, taking advantage of the spaces/defenders on the perimeter, between LBs and CBs, and taking advantage of the SS who typically has coverage responsibilities in his zone, underneath routes, etc.

So, we play the run well typically, we think they're going to come out using these types of formations to get their passing game going.

Instead, McVey knew our defense, and knew we'd prepare for that. What does he do? Picks up tendencies on our DL, shows the exact looks we're expecting, then completely runs us over from the jump.

Besides the fact that I hated see us get destroyed on the ground, it was impressive.
 

Flamma

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I think you have to get creative with Dak. Have to try something different.

The article mentioned Kitnas experience in high school coaching was an asset.

Looks like we might be seeing more of an Amateur style spread offense which might suit our QB’s strengths.

When I hear spread offense I think of 4 and 5 WR sets with maybe a guy in motion. That's not Dak's strength. Anytime they trotted out that empty backfield set it never ended well. Dak does well with a RB threat and throwing to a WR that breaks open in space, not to a tight window spot in heavy coverage. He usually doesn't even attempt those passes. But I wouldn't mind seeing more 11 personnel as I would think that would play to his strength. From under center he could use play action. If they stack the box they leave a lot of open space for the WRs.
 

ondaedg

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Yep. McVay is a really good coach. He ran that set with a bunch of different looks, tight to the line of scrimmage, out wide, using a lot of motion and play action, and zone flood principles to help Goff.

A lot of people didn't recognize it, but what he did against us was a thing of beauty. I noticed it after they had a couple drives.

For all the talk about "Tampa 2", we're a Cover 3, Cover 1 heavy team, with other alignments out of nickel, dime coverages.

A way to take advantage of those coverages is to line up tight to the LOS, taking advantage of the spaces/defenders on the perimeter, between LBs and CBs, and taking advantage of the SS who typically has coverage responsibilities in his zone, underneath routes, etc.

So, we play the run well typically, we think they're going to come out using these types of formations to get their passing game going.

Instead, McVey knew our defense, and knew we'd prepare for that. What does he do? Picks up tendencies on our DL, shows the exact looks we're expecting, then completely runs us over from the jump.

Besides the fact that I hated see us get destroyed on the ground, it was impressive.

Good post. The entire game I thought WOW were we outclassed. In addition to our linemen 'tells' they used our best trait against us and that is pursuit. They gave us enough of a headfake that got our DL and LBers going the wrong way quickly off the snap. Then their OL just kept pushing us in that direction. They juked us at the line and we didn't have the size or strength up front to reverse direction to stop the running play. Simple but genius and it didn't take much to fool our LBers. We use to do that very same thing when we would run the counter draw to DeMarco. It was very effective but I haven't seen it lately.
 

Diehardblues

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When I hear spread offense I think of 4 and 5 WR sets with maybe a guy in motion. That's not Dak's strength. Anytime they trotted out that empty backfield set it never ended well. Dak does well with a RB threat and throwing to a WR that breaks open in space, not to a tight window spot in heavy coverage. He usually doesn't even attempt those passes. But I wouldn't mind seeing more 11 personnel as I would think that would play to his strength. From under center he could use play action. If they stack the box they leave a lot of open space for the WRs.
Yea, what a shame Dak doesn’t read defenses well and reacts quickly. With our rushing attack he’d be great under center with play action . Oh well..
 

ClappingCarrot

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Yep. McVay is a really good coach. He ran that set with a bunch of different looks, tight to the line of scrimmage, out wide, using a lot of motion and play action, and zone flood principles to help Goff.

A lot of people didn't recognize it, but what he did against us was a thing of beauty. I noticed it after they had a couple drives.

For all the talk about "Tampa 2", we're a Cover 3, Cover 1 heavy team, with other alignments out of nickel, dime coverages.

A way to take advantage of those coverages is to line up tight to the LOS, taking advantage of the spaces/defenders on the perimeter, between LBs and CBs, and taking advantage of the SS who typically has coverage responsibilities in his zone, underneath routes, etc.

So, we play the run well typically, we think they're going to come out using these types of formations to get their passing game going.

Instead, McVey knew our defense, and knew we'd prepare for that. What does he do? Picks up tendencies on our DL, shows the exact looks we're expecting, then completely runs us over from the jump.

Besides the fact that I hated see us get destroyed on the ground, it was impressive.
It was a master game plan. I re-watched the game on YouTube myself yesterday and I was particularly frustrated with how lazy our preparation was up front. We were getting pushed off the ball literally every play. The Patriots however, made one minor tweak up front and completely neutered that running game in the Super Bowl. Coaching matters.

As hilarious as it was to see us get man handled like that, the game was still winnable IMO but we did ourselves no favors. One play that particularly stands out was when LAR was driving down the field and we got a key third down stop right before the first half ended, but it ended up being a first down because of a Byron Jones hands to the face penalty. That ended up being another LAR touchdown.
 

BigD_95

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“Having a spread offense forces the defense to show more of their hand pre-snap. Instead of having a condensed box where things get muddled together, the roles of the defenders will be more clear for Prescott.

Also, Prescott will probably run the ball more from these spread out formations. Then after one drive where it is very pass-heavy, the Cowboys can come out and run the ball.”

https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/201...o-next-level-mike-weber-leaves-practice-early



I do not know if Dak is accurate enough to run a spread type offense. Should be interesting. Worth a try.
 

Doc50

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When I hear spread offense I think of 4 and 5 WR sets with maybe a guy in motion. That's not Dak's strength. Anytime they trotted out that empty backfield set it never ended well. Dak does well with a RB threat and throwing to a WR that breaks open in space, not to a tight window spot in heavy coverage. He usually doesn't even attempt those passes. But I wouldn't mind seeing more 11 personnel as I would think that would play to his strength. From under center he could use play action. If they stack the box they leave a lot of open space for the WRs.

The basic spread is 2 slots, 2 wide-outs, 1 RB positioned next to the QB, and wider OL gaps. It' doesn't have to be hurry-up -- just no huddle, get signals from the sideline, prevent the D from subbing, and read the coverage. Can still eat the clock this way, while keeping the D off balance.

An NFL version simply has a TE flexed into the slot.

Dak has skills for running and throwing short to medium length passes.
Zeke can run, catch, and block at an elite level.
Our OL should be back to elite this year.
QB and receivers should have better rapport.

I can see the offense imposing its will without always smashing mouths, a la Landry finesse.
 

McKDaddy

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A new OC means that our O will be sluggish for a while until they get used to the new scheme(s). Just sayin.
hard to imagine being any more sluggish than the first 5 games last year. Only the Detroit game had 400 yards of offense. The others were under 300 with Seattle at 303. Pretty pathetic.
 

TexasHillbilly

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hard to imagine being any more sluggish than the first 5 games last year. Only the Detroit game had 400 yards of offense. The others were under 300 with Seattle at 303. Pretty pathetic.
And a pathetic 3-5 record to go along with the sluggish offensive play.
 

GMO415

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When's this coming?
funky_moton.0.gif
 

Flamma

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Yea, what a shame Dak doesn’t read defenses well and reacts quickly. With our rushing attack he’d be great under center with play action . Oh well..

He's going to have to. He's going to have to do this if this team plans on winning anything.
 

Flamma

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The basic spread is 2 slots, 2 wide-outs, 1 RB positioned next to the QB, and wider OL gaps. It' doesn't have to be hurry-up -- just no huddle, get signals from the sideline, prevent the D from subbing, and read the coverage. Can still eat the clock this way, while keeping the D off balance.

An NFL version simply has a TE flexed into the slot.

Dak has skills for running and throwing short to medium length passes.
Zeke can run, catch, and block at an elite level.
Our OL should be back to elite this year.
QB and receivers should have better rapport.

I can see the offense imposing its will without always smashing mouths, a la Landry finesse.

This is exactly what I am worried about as I don't see Dak being effective with that type of formation. Dak doesn't throw to a spot in tight windows, that's not him. I hope he proves me wrong and improves in that area because I like him as a QB because he is durable and has an amazing will to win when things get tight.
 

xwalker

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Completely disagree . Technically they can seal a lane better than any OL out there. There are no roadgrader lines anymore thanks to our 90s teams. Since then alot of Casey Hamptons and Ted Washingtons and Vince Wilforks. The less bunched up the more effective our OL will be. Mash them together and they just become bodies in a pile.

Yes, very few NFL teams in history could just line up and consistently "maul" defenses when the defenses knew what was coming.

The Nineties Cowboys were one of the few teams that could do that.

The Tyron/Martin/Frederick OLines were best when playing more Zone Blocking with Bill Callahan as the OL coach.
 

xwalker

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The Rams run 3wr, 1 TE, and 1rb sets and ran into 8-man boxes less than any other team. Mcvay recognized that RBs need space to get yards up the middle. We apparently just got the memo.

Yes, the Rams used 11 personnel more than any other team.

Side Note:
  • The 8-man box vs 7-man box is really more of a concept when the offense is using 21 or 12 personnel.
  • Against 11 personnel a stacked box is 7-man and a non-stacked box is 6-man.
  • Against 31 personnel as stacked box is 9-man and a non-stacked box is 8-man.


Oddly, the Patriots were on the opposite end of the spectrum with regards to using 11 personnel in 2018.

The Patriots used 11 personnel 58% of the snaps. Only 1 team used it less than 50% but 23 teams used it more than 60%.

The Patriots were 2nd in using 21 personnel and 5th in using 22 personnel.

Reference for anybody that needs it:
 

Diehardblues

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He's going to have to. He's going to have to do this if this team plans on winning anything.
Well, we’re winning divisions . Some fans appear pleased with that with the way they’re buying up his merchandise.
 

Captain43Crash

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OH JEESH. This will be interesting if true. Not sure if I would go this route considering our personnel. That's not how the oline is built. They are a powerful mauling oline...not smaller olineman that pull. Connor Williams may be the only guy that would do well in this scheme. Like the idea , but not sure we have the right players for it.
Martin is excellent at pulling, though I do worry when I see our lineman pulling. DB’s regularly go low in these situations. I think Martin hurt his knee pulling last year.
 
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