Kyle Orton and Cowboys Offense

[khiladi]

I have to strenuously object. Our offense is stuck in the 90's when JG last played.

You see teams like SEA and PHI and they have guys running uncovered. We never seem to get those mismatches.

It's not stuck in the 90s either. It's just bad. We ran play action all the time during the Norv era for example and we are the last amongst the league in using it now.

 

[khiladi]

He was 30 of 46 for 358 yards 2 tds and ints. With more starts and chemistry w the offense Orton probably could have done better. If we had him still we'd be talking about homefield adv instead of trying to make the playoffs.

Nobody is ever going to play that much cover 0 or cover 1 again.. You play cover 2 deep with this Dallas defense, the offense is shut down.

 

[khiladi]

Eagles defense were 4th in TOs, but LAST in defense that year. They were averaging 290 yards of passing yardage that year and gave up 400 yards passing regularly in their losses.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I've got a serious question. If our scheme is so bad that only Romo is able to function in it and without Romo the offense is in dissarray, how did Orton manage it? Now, i dont like the offense because it has been putrid this year. The defense has been put it precarious situations all year long, but is the scheme that bad that only Romo can run it or can most starting calibar qbs run the offense as well?

Because he is who he is and Cassel and Weeden are who they are and Romo is who he is.

Orton's problem is he liked to drink and was apparently a functioning alcoholic as they say. Romo had no respect for him because of it and it was what it was. Recall this is the wake of the Brent tragedy as well.

Thing is it takes years to train a QB to the point where they are refining instead of learning technique and concepts. Orton has already seen all the defenses and disguises and run the Coryell system in his time with the Bears and elsewhere.

Ultimately Cassel's problem is that he is physically cooked and has been declining from mediocre to bad since 2011. Weeden cannot process the field and rush at the speed of the NFL. The player has to have talent too. Look at the qb coach on up to blame who thought either could play. I imagine Stephen actually executed the Cassel trade so there is that. He didn't pay much though.

 

[Apollo Creed]

http://cowboyszone.com/threads/kyle-orton-thread-with-analysis-and-stuff.279124/page-2

 

[CATCH17]

It's not the scheme, it's the QBs.

The scheme is awful and the predictable playcalls put the QBs at a huge disadvantage.

When the game and season are on the line and we're heaving sideline passes to Dez while he is draped in coverage then that tells a lot.


Basically all we do is let Witten and Beasley run some choice routes down the middle of the field and let Dez and T. Will do something down the sideline.


We put Weeden and Cassell in a position to fail.

 

[mattjames2010]

The scheme is awful and the predictable playcalls put the QBs at a huge disadvantage.

When the game and season are on the line and we're heaving sideline passes to Dez while he is draped in coverage then that tells a lot.


Basically all we do is let Witten and Beasley run some choice routes down the middle of the field and let Dez and T. Will do something down the sideline.


We put Weeden and Cassell in a position to fail.

Dude, I don't know what you're not understanding. You take a franchise QB and replace him with a limited backup QB, the kind of plays you can or make happen drops. You then consider that limited QB has only been here a few months and it drops even more.

Linehan's offenses, while I have my criticisms, are not what I'd consider "predictable".

 

[Kevinicus]

Did I say we ran an up Tempo, aggressive or user friendly offense? I said we have a scheme that produces top Offenses every year.

Every Great QB make adjustments and moves in the pocket.. that is what makes them great. If they can't make adjustments or have pocket awareness, you have RG3, Weeden, type results.

I don't agree with the last sentence either. On every play, we have deep, intermediate and short routes. The QB is responsible for seeing what is developing and delivering the ball. True it is not a simplistic scheme with 1/2 field reads like Seattle.

That is simply not true. This is not a scheme that attacks the entire field.

 

[gimmesix]

I have to strenuously object. Our offense is stuck in the 90's when JG last played.

You see teams like SEA and PHI and they have guys running uncovered. We never seem to get those mismatches.

Eagles scored 24 points against Atlanta, 20 against Washington, 39 against New Orleans, 27 against the Giants, 16 against Carolina, 19 against the Dolphins, 17 against the Bucs and 35 against the Pats.

With Romo, Dallas scored the same amount against the Giants despite three turnovers and more against the Dolphins.

Without Romo, we've only scored more than the Eagles against Atlanta, although our point total was close to theirs against Washington (19) and Carolina (14).

Seattle's offense barely outscored ours without Romo, although the Seahawks did much better against Carolina that we did, scoring 23.

 

[Vanilla2]

insanity

 

[lostar2009]

There is nothing wrong with the scheme. We have a qb learning on the fly which is chaotic for our offense. Remember not only Orton but Kitna was able to flourish under JG scheme.

 

[Nightman]

Eagles scored 24 points against Atlanta, 20 against Washington, 39 against New Orleans, 27 against the Giants, 16 against Carolina, 19 against the Dolphins, 17 against the Bucs and 35 against the Pats.

With Romo, Dallas scored the same amount against the Giants despite three turnovers and more against the Dolphins.

Without Romo, we've only scored more than the Eagles against Atlanta, although our point total was close to theirs against Washington (19) and Carolina (14).

Seattle's offense barely outscored ours without Romo, although the Seahawks did much better against Carolina that we did, scoring 23.

You are missing my point.

With Romo the team can score with anyone but we don't make it easy on him.

We don't attack and cause mismatches. We don't use the pick and rubs. We don't have an effective short game with WR screens.

Other teams like PHI and SEA help their QBs out because they aren't as good. I know it is anecdotal but I see a lot more WRs running free in their games. Dez has to fight and scratch for every yard he gets.

 

[percyhoward]

Had we had Orton today we would have the division wrapped up, in spite of the lousy "scheme"!

I doubt that very much. Only reason we lost that game against the Eagles was that we couldn't finish drives. Finishing drives, regardless of schemes, is apparently a Romo thing.

 

[Aven8]

I doubt that very much. Only reason we lost that game against the Eagles was that we couldn't finish drives. Finishing drives, regardless of schemes, is apparently a Romo thing.

My point is we would have won at least 2. Orton is way better than Weeds and Cassel.

 

[CATCH17]

Dude, I don't know what you're not understanding. You take a franchise QB and replace him with a limited backup QB, the kind of plays you can or make happen drops. You then consider that limited QB has only been here a few months and it drops even more.

Linehan's offenses, while I have my criticisms, are not what I'd consider "predictable".

If run run pass isn't predictable for you with formations that usually run to the strong side then I agree that by your standard it's not predictable.

 

[Deep_South]

The year after he left the Cowboys, Orton signed with the Bills as the backup, took over for E.J. Manuel for their last 12 game, and was 7-5 in those starts. If we had him this year, I think we would easily be in 1st place in the division right now.

 

[PJTHEDOORS]

It's not the scheme, it's the QBs.

Both.

 

[DallasCowboys2080]

 

[gimmesix]

You are missing my point.

With Romo the team can score with anyone but we don't make it easy on him.

We don't attack and cause mismatches. We don't use the pick and rubs. We don't have an effective short game with WR screens.

Other teams like PHI and SEA help their QBs out because they aren't as good. I know it is anecdotal but I see a lot more WRs running free in their games. Dez has to fight and scratch for every yard he gets.

Although I do think there are things we can do better on offense, I think the main thing it comes down to is a difference in beliefs. Garrett doesn't believe he needs those things you mentioned, and with Romo at QB, he's been proven right by the success of the offense.

I view it as the difference between the 1990's 49ers and 1990's Cowboys. Two prolific offenses with completely different philosophies.

This offensive philosophy looks bad right now because it is missing its engine. Are there things that the coaches could do to compensate? Probably, but the best we can hope for is some tweaks because neither Garrett nor Linehan are going to change what they believe in and have seen work.