Lamar Miller latest update; Going to sign with Texans

[SHAMSzy]

No one is saying pick a QB just because we're drafting 4th overall. It's a more complex argument than that, and no scout is going to advocate drafting a QB at 4 unless they actually evaluate that player as being worth the selection.

Read the quote I was responding too tho

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I'm all in for Miller rather than misusing the #4 overall draft pick on the easiest position to acquire in football. You use it to get the most difficult position to acquire - a starting quarterback.

You can get a top running back in free agency.

You can't even get a mediocre one like Sam Bradford in free agency.

--

Seems like he is suggesting to pick a QB and not a RB just because we're drafting 4th overall, no?

 

[mattjames2010]

No one is saying pick a QB just because we're drafting 4th overall. It's a more complex argument than that, and no scout is going to advocate drafting a QB at 4 unless they actually evaluate that player as being worth the selection.

Oh come on, yes there is. There's plenty of people arguing about position rather than the prospects available.

 

[kazzd58]

Miller is not better than Elliott imo

 

[Echo9]

We should not pick a QB just because we are #4 and we will not have a better opportunity to select a QB in the future. We need to pick the guy that our scouts believe will become an All-Pro in this league.

This.

 

[Stash]

This is a great point -- but if the team believes Elliot will be an All-Pro RB, and that Goff will be a Chad Pennington type of player, you have to go Elliot. You don't need to draft a QB in the top 5 to find a franchise QB.

List of QB's selected 2nd-5th from 2000-2012: (not including Mariota/Bortles because jury is still out)
Robert Griffin III - 2nd
Mark Sanchez - 5th
Matt Ryan - 3rd
Vince Young - 3rd
Philip Rivers - 4th
Joey Harrington - 3rd

Love Rivers, Matt Ryan is alright.. but I'm not impressed in your odds of finding a stud in the top 5 outside of the #1 pick.

Current franchise QBs in the NFL:

Cam Newton: 1st pick
Andrew Luck: 1st pick
Peyton Manning: 1st pick
Carson Palmer: 1st pick
Peyton Manning: 1st pick

Philip Rivers: 4th pick

Ben Roethlisberger: 11th pick

Aaron Rodgers: 24th overall
Drew Brees: 2nd rounder
Russell Wilson: 3rd rounder

Tom Brady: 6th rounder
Tony Romo: undrafted

I think it is ill advised to say drafting a QB at 4 is better value than drafting another player that you believe in. Not saying Elliot should be the pick, it should be whoever the Best Player Available is based on our scouts or a trade down. Whether this is a QB, RB, WR, OL, DL, LB, DB, that is OK. We should not pick a QB just because we are #4 and we will not have a better opportunity to select a QB in the future. We need to pick the guy that our scouts believe will become an All-Pro in this league.

Chad Pennington went on to have a pretty good career, but I see your point.

I would counter that all evidence points to Goff being more than capable. Unlike Wentz, he hasn't burst onto the scene lately (and for many, neither has Wentz). Goff was the top quarterback prospect entering the 2015 season and his on-field performance only solidified that standing. Both of the quarterbacks are consensus top 10 players, it's not as though some people are questioning whether or not they can play. I see no more question marks around Goff's game than I do about any of these other players.

His situation reminds me of another famous Cal quarterback, who was the top quarterback leading into his draft, and then inexplicably dropped because people suddenly had 'questions' about him, none of which had merit. The Green Bay Packers are thankful every day that people were wrong about him too.

 

[superonyx]

Look at the DT market, Crawford's contract is not bad for his production. The best DTs in the league are paid nearly double his amount, or those DTs are still on their rookie deals and will be getting huge pay days. His contract is reasonable.

What should Crawford's production be? We're not paying him like a double digit sack DT, stop pretending we are. He had good DT numbers last year, while playing injured. Why people think we can get every player for scrub money is beyond me.

Crawford was invisible for most of the season last year. I remember at one point being excited when David Irving was on the field.
People are so quick to act like you can just draft any RB and pay him peanuts and he will be great. Yet they don't want to use this same strategy when discussing DT and Crawfords lack of production.
Put it like this....if we just spent 8 million per year on a RB and people were still wishing we went and signed another 8 million running back or drafted another back in the first 2 rounds we would all think we messed up paying 8 million per year for our RB. That applies to other positions as well.

It's not even about Crawford and the huge mistake we made paying him that much when he has never produced at an 8 million level. It's the overly cheap attitude people have about paying a quality RB who will have a much much larger role on our team than our DT. People that want to pay a RB or draft one high just want to have a very good back we can count on for the next couple of years. We don't want a repeat of last year where we had weekly signings of players like Rod Smith or Christine Michael. Our Arab position deserves to be solidified as much as our DT position does....probably more.

 

[phildadon86]

Miller is not better than Elliott imo

Oh. Well that's a relief. I'm so happy you've seen Elliott play at the NFL level.

 

[LittleD]

Chad Pennington went on to have a pretty good career, but I see your point.

I would counter that all evidence points to Goff being more than capable. Unlike Wentz, he hasn't burst onto the scene lately (and for many, neither has Wentz). Goff was the top quarterback prospect entering the 2015 season and his on-field performance only solidified that standing. Both of the quarterbacks are consensus top 10 players, it's not as though some people are questioning whether or not they can play. I see no more question marks around Goff's game than I do about any of these other players.

His situation reminds me of another famous Cal quarterback, who was the top quarterback leading into his draft, and then inexplicably dropped because people suddenly had 'questions' about him, none of which had merit. The Green Bay Packers are thankful every day that people were wrong about him too.

Stash...you are really hung up on getting Goff in the 1st round of the draft aren't you. I have looked at many evaluations of Goff and I just think you are
looking at a large potential bust in the Pros if you take him. NFL defenses will lick their chops on knocking that ball out of those small hands and in cold
weather games, he could be a potential disaster. I just don't think you take a player rated outside the top ten BAP's in the draft in the top 4 of the draft.
Nope...BPA works best and we need defense more right now. Who knows, 3 years from now we might have another real bad season and we get
another chance to pick a franchise QB who fits our profile for QB.

 

[Stash]

Stash...you are really hung up on getting Goff in the 1st round of the draft aren't you. I have looked at many evaluations of Goff and I just think you are
looking at a large potential bust in the Pros if you take him. NFL defenses will lick their chops on knocking that ball out of those small hands and in cold
weather games, he could be a potential disaster.

To quote the player himself: "How many fumbles did I have this year? 4."

Those "tiny hands" are 3/8ths of an inch smaller than Aaron Rodgers' hands, and the reports on Romo's hand size are all over the place too. Goff can throw the football and throw it well. That's been proven for three years in college and back to high school. He's no question mark.

I just don't think you take a player rated outside the top ten BAP's in the draft in the top 4 of the draft.

I have yet to see a credible source that's placing Goff "outside the top ten". If you have one to support that claim, I'd like to see it. But I won't get my hopes up. Most people run away when asked to support their claims.

Nope...BPA works best and we need defense more right now. Who knows, 3 years from now we might have another real bad season and we get
another chance to pick a franchise QB who fits our profile for QB.

Or we might not, let's leave that up to chance over planning though, right?

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Just draft Elliot, he is the best option.
Remember all the RBs everyone ran up ours butts last year, all in the mean time putting down McFadden.
People wanted CMike even in the off season. We wasted a pick on him, for nothing.

All those RBs, and nothing.

DMC turned out to be proven why he was brought in. And I am fine with him, but we need a young stud RB, not a FA RB, who hasn't really done much more, and really isn't that much younger. As opposed to getting a real threat in the backfield.

as a top 4 pick Zeke is likely to be nearly as expensive as Miller.

Personally i'd rather have Miller and a guy like Ramsey than to have just Zeke and 2M in year 1 cap space to go out and try and find a dynamic secondary piece or edge rusher.

 

[mattjames2010]

Crawford was invisible for most of the season last year. I remember at one point being excited when David Irving was on the field.
People are so quick to act like you can just draft any RB and pay him peanuts and he will be great. Yet they don't want to use this same strategy when discussing DT and Crawfords lack of production.
Put it like this....if we just spent 8 million per year on a RB and people were still wishing we went and signed another 8 million running back or drafted another back in the first 2 rounds we would all think we messed up paying 8 million per year for our RB. That applies to other positions as well.

It's not even about Crawford and the huge mistake we made paying him that much when he has never produced at an 8 million level. It's the overly cheap attitude people have about paying a quality RB who will have a much much larger role on our team than our DT. People that want to pay a RB or draft one high just want to have a very good back we can count on for the next couple of years. We don't want a repeat of last year where we had weekly signings of players like Rod Smith or Christine Michael. Our Arab position deserves to be solidified as much as our DT position does....probably more.

Crawford was "invisible" when he first suffered his injury and when there were scrubs surrounding him, Saints game to be exact. When else last year was he "invisible"?

Put it like this....if we just spent 8 million per year on a RB and people were still wishing we went and signed another 8 million running back or drafted another back in the first 2 rounds we would all think we messed up paying 8 million per year for our RB. That applies to other positions as well.

No that is not same, we're in a 4-3, two quality DTs is valuable. Spending $8 million on a RB that isn't top 5-10 gets people frustrated due to the life expectancy at that position, but two high priced RBs? That's far too much money into a revolving door position. Trenches, however, is worth the investment.

It's the overly cheap attitude people have about paying a quality RB who will have a much much larger role on our team than our DT.

And you can't see why? Most RBs in the league are one contract investments, at most, for teams. Many of those RBs are on cheap contracts in their prime years. It's not a position you want to be throwing big money at.

$8 million at a good DT? Reasonable due to the market. $8 million at a good RB in a league full of decent/good RBs? Harder to defend.

 

[jnday]

I'm all in for Miller rather than misusing the #4 overall draft pick on the easiest position to acquire in football. You use it to get the most difficult position to acquire - a starting quarterback.

You can get a top running back in free agency.

You can't even get a mediocre one like Sam Bradford in free agency.

I agree with your point about the QB position being the hardest to fill, even if it is a backup QB. I think last year showed Dallas one thing though , that tough, every down RB that is needed for this offense is not so easy to find. I wouldn't take one with the 4th pick, but Dallas is going to have to put more effort and resources to find the RB that they need. The DMac signing was not much of an effort in finding a RB IMO.

 

[jterrell]

Miller and McFadden compliment each other. McFadden would be reduced to complimenting Elliot who is a 3 down RB.

While Miller wants 6 million for 4 years =24 million, Zeke plays for 4million for 4 years if taken top 5, which saves 10 million in cap over 4 seasons.

Zeke would actually cost over 25M. Last year's 4 was 22.7m and the cap increased greatly(which ties to rookie scale).

Neither option is cost effective really. The issue with Zeke is if he does well for 4 years you then have to pay him a bigger salary to get that 2nd contract....
And if you don't then you spent a 4 and 25m on a 4 year guy which is a terrible return.

There really is about a 99% chance any RB taken top 5 is a terrible draft investment.
This is historical but also theoretical.
It is nearly impossible to make that pick work out.

 

[Stash]

I agree with your point about the QB position being the hardest to fill, even if it is a backup QB. I think last year showed Dallas one thing though , that tough, every down RB that is needed for this offense is not so easy to find. I wouldn't take one with the 4th pick, but Dallas is going to have to put more effort and resources to find the RB that they need. The DMac signing was not much of an effort in finding a RB IMO.

Given the money going around to lesser running backs (in my opinion), if I were the Cowboys and I want Miller, I'm upping my offer to 4 years, $25 million.

 

[jterrell]

We have McFadden and Dunbar should be easy.

I don't know why you people are concerned

fair point. last year without dunbar we were 9th best rushing team.

 

[jterrell]

Here is some substance.

The Miami Herald has heard the Cowboys are a "possibility" to land free agent Lamar Miller.

Cowboys.com's Bryan Broaddus also hinted on Twitter Tuesday morning that Dallas is indeed investigating what it would cost to sign Miller. Teams linked to Miller thus far include the Cowboys, Texans, and Buccaneers. For Miller's Dynasty league owners, Dallas would be an ideal landing spot behind the NFL's premier offensive line with Tony Romo and Dez Bryant also due back healthy.
Related: Cowboys

Source: Armando Salguero on Twitter

That's not substance, it is media pointing to other media. Sounds very much like Houston is now bidding against itself.
Miami dropped off at some point and Dallas may well have RECEIVED a call and said we'd be interested at the right price but Miller hasn't been to Dallas even though it is a 45 minute flight or 4 hour drive from Houston where he did go.

The market looks to be about 6. That might work for Dallas if Adrian Peterson were available.

I don't think they want to give that to someone who averages less YPC than DMC last year.

 

[jterrell]

Again to be clear for the 999999999th time.
Dallas is paying that OL to be the league's best. They MUST get values elsewhere for cap math to work.
RB is one of those spots.
Dallas by drafting a guy in rounds 3 or 4 gets a guy locked in at 500K per year. The other 6 million per year would go to the OL.. i.e. Travis Frederick and Zack Martin who they want to keep another 5-7 years.

 

[DeaconMoss]

Seems like Miller is still in play to Dallas. It's not a lock to Houston as suggested yesterday. Fish have stopped all negotiations.

 

[kazzd58]

Oh. Well that's a relief. I'm so happy you've seen Elliott play at the NFL level.

Its my opinion which is y I specifically put "imo" at the end and im def more than entitled to it..... I trust my eyes more than most and how It can translate to nfl and im right waaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy more often than not about specific players, I don't study every draft pick like some but the ones that catch my eye on the field I translate there game to the next level and compared to Miller I believe that Zeke is better for us and has a way more higher ceiling the Alabama game last year told me he can carry you a championship with Miller I don't believe he can carry you to a championship Zeke can cause he's done it so yea I do believe Zeke is better than Miller. and have you been payin attention to Stephen when he says they're not spending big money on rb or big in free agency period. so idk what to tell then about Miller and his asking price but i'll take my chances with Zeke and have the best 5 yrs cause hes a rb and hell be great for Romo at end of his carrer.. but idk if Dallas gonna pull the trigger and that's the question because if we go by "BPA" which is what they keep mentioning then Zeke should be ahead of Bosa on there board

 

[jterrell]

Crawford was invisible for most of the season last year. I remember at one point being excited when David Irving was on the field.
People are so quick to act like you can just draft any RB and pay him peanuts and he will be great. Yet they don't want to use this same strategy when discussing DT and Crawfords lack of production.
Put it like this....if we just spent 8 million per year on a RB and people were still wishing we went and signed another 8 million running back or drafted another back in the first 2 rounds we would all think we messed up paying 8 million per year for our RB. That applies to other positions as well.

It's not even about Crawford and the huge mistake we made paying him that much when he has never produced at an 8 million level. It's the overly cheap attitude people have about paying a quality RB who will have a much much larger role on our team than our DT. People that want to pay a RB or draft one high just want to have a very good back we can count on for the next couple of years. We don't want a repeat of last year where we had weekly signings of players like Rod Smith or Christine Michael. Our Arab position deserves to be solidified as much as our DT position does....probably more.

tyrone crawford was badly injured but played anyway last year.
our rb concern is depth, they have a starter in DMC.
teams churn the bottom of the roster and all those guys were churn.