Let me show you how the refs completely botched the spotting of the ball after Dak's slide

[lostar2009]

It didn’t take 9 seconds.

I count from player down to ball being spot.

 

[khiladi]

We have to go back to the Cowboys' last brutal playoff defeat, in 2019 against the Rams.

In that game, the Rams were driving just before halftime to try and secure a long field goal attempt for a kicker some of you may have heard of, named Greg Zuerlein.

With no timeouts left, Jared Goff completes a pass across the middle to Robert Woods, who is tackled and immediately spots the ball himself. The center grabs the ball and the offense gets in position to snap it. At no point does anyone hand the ball to the referee. In fact, if you blink, you may have missed the referee completely. He zooms into the screen momentarily, lightly taps the top of the football, then scurries out of the way so the Rams can snap the ball and clock it.

Watch:

Contrary to what Tony Romo would like you to believe, the referee does not need to be physically handed the football, they simply need to touch it. Biadasz had the ball in hand, on the turf, with four seconds left on the clock. A competent referee simply needed to run to the line (but not into the quarterback), touch the football, and then get out of the way, allowing it to be snapped and clocked with about one second to spare.

A few things:

1. This is not the reason the Cowboys lost.

2. Asking Dak to run, slide, and clock the ball was still a dumb, and far too risky, play call.

3. This is not a conspiracy against the Cowboys; it's incompetent officiating.

4. Regardless of points 1, 2 & 3, the fact of the matter is the Cowboys absolutely should have gotten the opportunity to run one more play from the 24-yard-line.

You know what’s hilarious about this play. They are already set and the REF is still running up, just like the ref was running up in the Cowboys game.

Claiming the ref BOTCHED the play based on this Rams GIF is wrong. All it shows is the Cowboys completely mismanaged the play, unlike the Rams with the WR who set the ball, because the ref did nothing that was different than what they normally do.

The issue has nothing to do with the ref touching the ball, the issue had to do with the Center snapping it without the ref even touching the ball.

 

[khiladi]

@Sydla

This GIF clearly shows the ref just has to touch the ball.

But it also shows that refs move towards the line in the manner like they did in the Cowboys game. And the Center and Dak didn’t wait for the ref to touch the ball.

In reality, all it demonstrates is the Cowboys chose a play that pushed the edges of time and the time expired.



Even our WRs were walking slowly the line, while the Rams didn’t run, but threw the ball and the WR set the ball and the OL and Goff lined up properly.

 

[DOUBLE WING]

You know what’s hilarious about this play. They are already set and the REF is still running up, just like the ref was running up in the Cowboys game.

Claiming the ref BOTCHED the play based on this Rams GIF is wrong. All it shows is the Cowboys completely mismanaged the play, unlike the Rams with the WR who set the ball, because the ref did nothing that was different than what they normally do.

The issue has nothing to do with the ref touching the ball, the issue had to do with the Center snapping it without the ref even touching the ball.

The center did not try snapping the ball without the ump touching it. What the Cowboys did was no different than what the Rams did in that play, other than maybe holding the ball a couple seconds longer than Woods did.

Biadasz had the ball in his hands, set it down on the turf, took his hand off it, and then the referee ran in, grabbed the ball, and moved it back a yard. Contrast this with the Rams who spotted it themselves, and then lined up with the center's hand ON THE BALL ready to snap it. The ump runs in and taps the ball.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Biadasz did not try snapping the ball without the ump touching it. What the Cowboys did was no different than what the Rams did in that play, other than maybe holding the ball a couple seconds longer than Woods did. Biadasz had the ball in his hands, set it down on the turf, took his hand off it, and then the referee ran in, grabbed the ball, and moved it back a yard.

So what is the complaint here?

That the ref shouldn’t have respotted the ball?

 

[khiladi]

The center did not try snapping the ball without the ump touching it. What the Cowboys did was no different than what the Rams did in that play, other than maybe holding the ball a couple seconds longer than Woods did.

Biadasz had the ball in his hands, set it down on the turf, took his hand off it, and then the referee ran in, grabbed the ball, and moved it back a yard. Contrast this with the Rams who spotted it themselves, and then lined up with the center's hand ON THE BALL ready to snap it. The ump runs in and taps the ball.

So then the argument is no longer about how the ref approached the line, but him re-spotting it…

 

[Sydla]

@Sydla

This GIF clearly shows the ref just has to touch the ball.

But it also shows that refs move towards the line in the manner like they did in the Cowboys game. And the Center and Dak didn’t wait for the ref to touch the ball.

In reality, all it demonstrates is the Cowboys chose a play that pushed the edges of time and the time expired.



Even our WRs were walking slowly the line, while the Rams didn’t run, but threw the ball and the WR set the ball and the OL and Goff lined up properly.

Not sure what you are arguing here.

 

[khiladi]

Not sure what you are arguing here. I said it was a dumb call. I said Dak messed up. But I also said it appears this whole thing and how to run it came from McCarthy who apparently doesn't know the rules.

Not arguing, just addressing your last post when you reference McCarthy and the ‘handing the ball to the ref’. I just wanted to clarify after seeing this thread, it’s not required, the ref often just touches it.

 

[khiladi]

this ref was flying quick to get set.

And Romo doesn’t say the ref has to be handed the ball, he lite era lot says the Empire had to TOUCH the ball in this clip at around 26 seconds.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

I count from player down to ball being spot.

By my stopwatch on my watch I count no more than 6 seconds from the end of the play to ref respotting the ball.

That is not an inordinate amount of time. And you have to account for the fact Biadasz spotted the ball incorrectly which the referee had to correct.

 

[DOUBLE WING]

So then the argument is no longer about how the ref approached the line, but him re-spotting it…

My point in the OP is about Romo/Orlovsky's argument that Dak should have handed the ball to the referee as opposed to the referee just touching it (as in the Rams clip). The path the ump took is an ancillary issue that ultimately affected the loss of the final second, in addition to the re-spotting (see the Davante Adams clip I posted above for an example of an ump being in the play immediately to re-spot).

 

[zrinkill]

Does not matter ......... if the offense was not MIA for the first half it would never have gotten to that point.

 

[DOUBLE WING]

So what is the complaint here?

That the ref shouldn’t have respotted the ball?

Its a two-fold issue. Based on my amateur research today on Gamepass, I don't believe re-spotting the ball was necessary. Yes, Biadasz spotted it a yard up. And yes, it's well within the ump's right to do so, but they more often than not don't in that scenario. The length of time it took the ump to get to the line is an ancillary issue that is exacerbated by the fact that once he was there, he chose to re-spot the ball. If the ump is in the picture immediately (as in the Davante Adams GIF I posted) to touch/re-spot the ball, then whether he re-spots it or not may not matter. But the way the scenario played out, it mattered greatly.

Again, all factors to why it's a dumb play to call. But as you go through and watch clips of these on Gamepass, there is no rhyme or reason to how umpires handle this scenario. More often than not, teams spot it themselves.

 

[khiladi]

My point in the OP is about Romo/Orlovsky's argument that Dak should have handed the ball to the referee as opposed to the referee just touching it (as in the Rams clip). The path the ump took is an ancillary issue that ultimately affected the loss of the final second, in addition to the re-spotting (see the Davante Adams clip I posted above for an example of an ump being in the play immediately to re-spot).

Romo never said you have to hand the empire the ball. He said the empire has to touch the ball multiple times in the video I provided, particularly at 26 seconds.

That being said, looking at it again in slow motion and your comment about the ref hitting Dak and resetting the ball at around 50 seconds, the ref completely botched it.

It’s irrelevant how Dak behaved, because his expectation is the Center saw the ref touch it and was going to snap it.

What screwed it all up was the ref period.. he respotted it and placed it right back to where Biadadz had placed it already after knocking Dak down. Only the ref can be blamed here after looking at it again.

 

[DOUBLE WING]

Romo never said you have to hand the empire the ball. He said the empire has to touch the ball multiple times in the video I provided, particularly at 26 seconds.

That being said, looking at it again in slow motion and your comment about the ref hitting Dak and resetting the ball at around 50 seconds, the ref completely botched it.

It’s irrelevant how Dak behaved, because his expectation is the Center saw the ref touch it and was going to snap it.

What screwed it all up was the ref period.. he respotted it and placed it right back to where Biadadz had placed it already after knocking Dak down. Only the ref can be blamed here after looking at it again.

Romo did say Dak should have looked for and given the ball to the referee. I don't believe this was during the initial play but later when they were reviewing it with Gene Steratore:





Your last point there is exactly my feelings. If you go through enough tape on these plays, which I've done today, you'll see that more often than not the players spot the ball themselves. In the cases where they hand it to the ref, the ref is usually sprinting behind the play and is there to collect the ball as soon as the player is ruled down (see first Packers GIF). Otherwise, the ref will just sneak in to tap the ball and move (see the second Packers GIF). But again, there's no official ruling on how this play should be handled, which is why it's a dumb play to call. But all things considered, this team should have had one more play with a second left.

 

[khiladi]

Romo did say Dak should have looked for and given the ball to the referee. I don't believe this was during the initial play but later when they were reviewing it with Gene Steratore:





Your last point there is exactly my feelings. If you go through enough tape on these plays, which I've done today, you'll see that more often than not the players spot the ball themselves. The ref will just sneak in to tap the ball and move (see the second Packers GIF). But again, there's no official ruling on how this play should be handled, which is why it's a dumb play to call. But all things considered, this team should have had one more play with a second left.

Dumb play or not, they executed and the ref screwed it up. The refs job is supposed to get it right.

That being said, there are plenty of times where QBs hand the ball to the ref. In this case, Dak had the ball in his hand, unlike the Rams game where it was a throw and the WR placed it where the catch was. But again, you can’t blame him. There are multiple ways to skin a cat. The onus is on the ref at that stage to do what needed to be done.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Its a two-fold issue. Based on my amateur research today on Gamepass, I don't believe re-spotting the ball was necessary. Yes, Biadasz spotted it a yard up. And yes, it's well within the ump's right to do so, but they more often than not don't in that scenario. The length of time it took the ump to get to the line is an ancillary issue that is exacerbated by the fact that once he was there, he chose to re-spot the ball. If the ump is in the picture immediately (as in the Davante Adams GIF I posted) to touch/re-spot the ball, then whether he re-spots it or not may not matter. But the way the scenario played out, it mattered greatly.

Again, all factors to why it's a dumb play to call. But as you go through and watch clips of these on Gamepass, there is no rhyme or reason to how umpires handle this scenario. More often than not, teams spot it themselves.

Nah, I disagree.

A player can’t arbitrarily spot the ball himself. In the Rams example, they got away with it but that oversight doesn’t suddenly make it optional.

That’s just fundamental.

To your other point that they don’t have to hand the ball over and that the ref only needs to touch it, yeah, I agree with you.

 

[DOUBLE WING]

Dumb play or not, they executed and the ref screwed it up. The refs job is supposed to get it right.

That being said, there are plenty of times where QBs hand the ball to the ref. In this case, Dak had the ball in his hand, unlike the Rams game where it was a throw and the WR placed it where the catch was. But again, you can’t blame him. There are multiple ways to skin a cat. The onus is on the ref at that stage to do what needed to be done.

I believe if the referee is nearby Dak probably hands him the ball. In the aerial view a few posts above, the ump doesn't start his sprint toward the play until Dak's slide is complete. He should already be there when Dak is getting off the turf. A QB in that scenario is trying to get his team to the line, not looking around for an ump to throw the ball to.

 

[NotForLong]

The really maddening thing is how he basically blocked us snapping the ball even after he held us up - properly - I might add - to allow San Francisco to make its subs. But instead of stepping away he cuts right across the line where the ball is supposed to be snapped while there was still time to snap it. He made it impossible to avoid the penalty when we could have without risking the ball hitting him and possibly resulting in a game-killing turnover. That cannot be a penalty. I cannot believe the booth in New York didn't see that and couldn't have have buzzed down and said there is no foul for delay of game because of the offic1al making it impossible to snap the ball. Something was very wrong there. And but for that penalty we might finish that drive in the end zone. and guess what , scary as it might have been, it might have been 23-20 with 38 seconds to play, and we would have been in field goal range before that last play. 50-50 shot for sure but I would have been a real shot.

 

[DOUBLE WING]

Nah, I disagree.

A player can’t arbitrarily spot the ball himself. In the Rams example, they got away with it but that oversight doesn’t suddenly make it optional.

That’s just fundamental.

To your other point that they don’t have to hand the ball over and that the ref only needs to touch it, yeah, I agree with you.

Re: the bolded - agreed, legally, they cannot spot it themselves. However, I find in cases like this that they more often than not do, and the ump lets it ride.