Let us just take a moment to mourn the 'Skins' season

[LittleBoyBlue]

Whatever. Kyle believed in RGIII and the read option

Which was more successful.... The unbeatable RGIII read option ?

Or

?

 

[SkinsHokieFan]

Why on earth would I have to give you an example of what you should already know about your own team?

Whatever. Kyle believed in RGIII and the read option. Mike believed that RGIII needed to develop his NFL passing game. Kyle sided with RGIII and the read option offense when Mike did not. Looking back on it, it's pretty clear that the Read Options and RGIII was not long for the road in the NFL. What you are seeing now is proof of same. The Skins Management were stupid not to listen to Mike Shanahan on this. They were stupid to trade up for RGIII and give up what they did for him as well. Shanahan was not in favor of this. He was talked into this by Ownership. That entire argument about he had to sign off is a leaky boat in a hurricane. Yes, he had to sign off on it but that pick was happening no matter what and so he could resign or he could draft Cousins later, instead of what he really wanted to do, which was trade down and acquire more picks and take Tanny. The reality is that he had an entire coaching staff that would have also been out of a job had he done that and one of those coaches happened to be his own Son. I mean, it's nice to throw that out there but it's not realistic. That's not how the NFL works.

However, I often wonder if Shanahan might have actually walked away if he had the chance to do it again? Fan think like yours is part of why the Skins have been down, as a franchise for so long. You make excuses for the shortcomings in your own front office. None of what I posted here is untrue. There have been many stories written about this but because Mike Shanahan or Daniel Snyder won't confirm them, there is no proof of it. In order to fix the problem, you gotta start by admitting that there is one. Was the same here in Dallas for a long time. It's getting better now because our Owner is no longer making all the decisions.

The amount of heresay in this post is incredible

Kyle sided with RGIII and the read option offense when Mike did not.

What does this even mean?

To quote Mike

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...tuation-with-being-an-aaron-rodgers-type-guy/

I just told him that the only chance that this kid, Robert, has to get to the level that we need him to get to is for him to at least trust us that we’re going to run the offense that gives him the best chance to be successful. And if not, it’s impossible, because he’s not ready for it. I can see it, that he’s not ready for that type of offense. Not that he’s not good enough, he just has never done it before.”

Interpretation: Mike knew it would take time for RG3 to get to an NFL level ability of being a pocket passer. So he and Kyle designed an offense that fit his ability and mirrored what he ran in college.

Which counters your statement of this

Kyle sided with RGIII and the read option offense when Mike did not.

Again, Mike on what he thought of Griffin prior to the draft and the approach to take

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-both-rgiii-and-russell-wilson-in-2012-draft/

He wasn’t a pocket passer,” Shanahan said. “I said ‘Hey, we can do this, but we’ve got to run the style of offense that he ran at Baylor.’ I said we don’t know if he’s a pocket quarterback; he’s never done it. He never did it in high school It is gonna take some time. Now does that mean he can’t learn it? Of course it doesn’t. It just means he’s never done something.

The Skins Management were stupid not to listen to Mike Shanahan on this.

“Yeah, he did ask for a meeting. He did talk about, number one, he wanted change. He mentioned the Baltimore game and the Atlanta game, you know, his injuries. He talked about protection shortening his career. What I tried to share with him is I thought he had probably as good a protection as most rookies do have in their first year because of what he was able to do with the running game. If you compare [Griffin’s protection] to Andrew Luck, it’s not even close. He actually [mentioned] what plays were acceptable and unacceptable, and when he started talking about what plays were acceptable and unacceptable, and that he wasn’t a rookie anymore and wanted to voice his opinion, the term unacceptable is used by Dan, the owner, quite often. So [I had] a little bit of a smile when I heard some of these complaints.”

So it was Griffin, and in Mike's estimation Dan Snyder who WANTED Griffin to a run a more traditional drop back passer game

Takeaway: Mike wanted to continute to run a more read option based offense and continue to work on Griffin becoming a drop back passer. Not whatever the hell ABQCOWBOY thinks Mike was thinking

Shanahan was not in favor of this. He was talked into this by Ownership. That entire argument about he had to sign off is a leaky boat in a hurricane. Yes, he had to sign off on it but that pick was happening no matter what and so he could resign or he could draft Cousins later, instead of what he really wanted to do, which was trade down and acquire more picks and take Tanny.

So ABQ is now stating that 1) Shanahan did not have any ability to tell the FO that there would be no trade up and no picking of Griffin. This despite the fact that Shanahan was executive VP and had full control of the roster, and had 3 years/21M left on his deal.

Lets look at the facts

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-both-rgiii-and-russell-wilson-in-2012-draft/

Giving up two No. 1s and a No. 2 for him, I said that really puts us in a hole for the future. But as we all know, if you don’t have a quarterback in the National Football League, you’re not gonna win. You’re not gonna win a Super Bowl. So that’s where it starts….

“I did not feel good about giving up two number ones and a number two, and they all knew I felt that way, because of the unknown,” Shanahan said. “But at the same time I said hey, if he’s willing — and it’s gonna take four or five years, it’s not gonna happen overnight – if he’s willing to understand that it is gonna take some time and be patient and work on the things that give him a chance to be better, I said hey, yeah, I would take the chance. But I want you to know that he’s gonna have to really commit to what we’re doing and he’s gonna have to follow the little things and do the little things the right way, both in the running game and the passing game. I said he’s got a chance to do things that nobody else has done.”

But Shanahan also said that if he had known the Commanders were going to be hit with onerous salary-cap penalties later that offseason, he would not have felt the same way about the trade. The Commanders traded for the pick that became Griffin on March 9; the penalties were announced on March 12.

“I don’t think you could have” made the deal,” Shanahan said. “Any time you’re gonna lose two number ones and a number two, and you’re gonna get penalized like you did [where] obviously you can’t bring players in, it would be very hard to make that decision.”

Takeaways

Shanahan doesn't feel great about giving up two 1's and a 2. That is fair, nobody felt great about the price

Shanahan does realize you need a QB to win the Superbowl. After staking his reputation on Beck and Grossman in 2011, he really felt that urge

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/29/shanahan-stakes-his-reputation-on-grossman-beck/

“You talk about a guy not being experienced — I believe in the guys,” Shanahan told reporters on Friday, per the Associated Press. “I believe in ’em. And I’ve been doing this for a long time. And I put my reputation on these guys that they can play.”

Shanahan knew it would take time with Robert

Shanahan doesn't make the trade if he knew the cap penalties were coming (which were not announced until the first day of the league year March 12th)

As for the Tannehill report, many people found it, "convienent" to come out in late 2013

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...of-shanahan-wanted-to-stay-put-for-tannehill/

Under the Shanahan-wanted-Tannehill theory, if there’s any truth to it, the decision to take quarterback Kirk Cousins in round four of the 2012 draft becomes even more intriguing. Perhaps Shanahan insisted on having a Gus Frerotte ready to go in the event Griffin ended up being another Heath Shuler.

The more likely explanation is that Shanahan now knows the bell will soon be tolling for him, and that he needs to craft a narrative that will help get him the Andy Reid treatment in January, with an owner of a downtrodden franchise concluding that a consistently successful coach like Shanahan is the guy to come in and instantly turn things around.

Shanahan possibly has begun this process by publicly pointing on Monday to the $36 million in cap penalties. Though he mentioned that dynamic as reason to expect improvement in 2014, it’s not a stretch to see it as the identification of an excuse for poor performance in 2013.

Even if Shanahan didn’t want Tannehill, floating the notion that he did could help Shanahan find a suitor for 2014.

It's getting better now because our Owner is no longer making all the decisions.

Scot says hi. And if Snyder was "making the decisions" now, Griffin would still be starting.

None of what I posted here is untrue.

Actually my friend, pretty much everything you posted was false.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

The amount of heresay in this post is incredible



What does this even mean?

To quote Mike

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...tuation-with-being-an-aaron-rodgers-type-guy/



Interpretation: Mike knew it would take time for RG3 to get to an NFL level ability of being a pocket passer. So he and Kyle designed an offense that fit his ability and mirrored what he ran in college.

Which counters your statement of this



Again, Mike on what he thought of Griffin prior to the draft and the approach to take

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-both-rgiii-and-russell-wilson-in-2012-draft/







So it was Griffin, and in Mike's estimation Dan Snyder who WANTED Griffin to a run a more traditional drop back passer game

Takeaway: Mike wanted to continute to run a more read option based offense and continue to work on Griffin becoming a drop back passer. Not whatever the hell ABQCOWBOY thinks Mike was thinking



So ABQ is now stating that 1) Shanahan did not have any ability to tell the FO that there would be no trade up and no picking of Griffin. This despite the fact that Shanahan was executive VP and had full control of the roster, and had 3 years/21M left on his deal.

Lets look at the facts

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-both-rgiii-and-russell-wilson-in-2012-draft/





Takeaways

Shanahan doesn't feel great about giving up two 1's and a 2. That is fair, nobody felt great about the price

Shanahan does realize you need a QB to win the Superbowl. After staking his reputation on Beck and Grossman in 2011, he really felt that urge

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/29/shanahan-stakes-his-reputation-on-grossman-beck/



Shanahan knew it would take time with Robert

Shanahan doesn't make the trade if he knew the cap penalties were coming (which were not announced until the first day of the league year March 12th)

As for the Tannehill report, many people found it, "convienent" to come out in late 2013

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...of-shanahan-wanted-to-stay-put-for-tannehill/




Actually my friend, pretty much everything you posted was false.

OK. Just don't come complaining when you guys are 6-10.

 

[SkinsHokieFan]

OK. Just don't come complaining when you guys are 6-10.

ABQCOWBOY translation: I got nothing. My bad SHF

Its cool ABQCOWBOY, I still love you in the tailgate



I am expecting 2-14.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

It's not that I don't have anything. It's that I am not going to spend a great deal of time trying to convince you of your teams mistakes. It's your team, it's not mine. If you don't want to look at it for what it is, then that's on you.

I'll see you in the tailgate.

 

[SkinsHokieFan]

It's not that I don't have anything. It's that I am not going to spend a great deal of time trying to convince you of your teams mistakes. It's your team, it's not mine. If you don't want to look at it for what it is, then that's on you.

I'll see you in the tailgate.

You just posted paragraphs of nonsense



Trust me when I understand the shortcomings of the Commanders organization. Beyond whatever you think happened 3.5 years ago

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You just posted paragraphs of nonsense



Trust me when I understand the shortcomings of the Commanders organization. Beyond whatever you think happened 3.5 years ago

OK.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

SkinsHokieFan, one thing you are really down playing is that there are literally only 32 NFL HC jobs. By all accounts, Shannahan still wants to coach, but it's hard to get that right situation, which for him was total control. And while he had it in Washington and ultimately signed off on the RG3 trade, it seems obvious that he was talked into by ownership and believed that he could over come the hole the trade put the team in. This isn't to say he didn't like Griffin's talent, but to most people, the cost was prohibitive. I live in the area, so I'm pretty familiar with the various statements he has made over the years, but it's clear he was not the driving force behind the trade when he believed it would take Griffin 4 years to become comfortable as a drop back passer. It's also obvious that he wasn't the driving force behind it, when he drafted another QB just 2 picks later in the same draft.

Even if you look at the current situation, whose idea do you think it was to pick up the option on RG3 and declare him the starter back in February? If it was obvious after training camp+2 preseason games, then the football people clearly saw on last years film that there should have been a competition. Cousins should have been getting first team reps much sooner and he wasn't because again, the owner who contractually gave up final say in personnel matters, still has more influence than you think.

 

[SkinsHokieFan]

SkinsHokieFan, one thing you are really down playing is that there are literally only 32 NFL HC jobs. By all accounts, Shannahan still wants to coach, but it's hard to get that right situation, which for him was total control. And while he had it in Washington and ultimately signed off on the RG3 trade, it seems obvious that he was talked into by ownership and believed that he could over come the hole the trade put the team in. This isn't to say he didn't like Griffin's talent, but to most people, the cost was prohibitive. I live in the area, so I'm pretty familiar with the various statements he has made over the years, but it's clear he was not the driving force behind the trade when he believed it would take Griffin 4 years to become comfortable as a drop back passer. It's also obvious that he wasn't the driving force behind it, when he drafted another QB just 2 picks later in the same draft.

I can buy this.

However it does not equate to Shannahan didn't want Griffin, OMG SCANDAL!

As in every FO there is disagreement (did Parcells really want TO? etc etc) however Shanahan does not get to escape responsibility. He had final sign off on all moves. He was in full control of that roster from January 2010 until the day he was fired.

Even if you look at the current situation, whose idea do you think it was to pick up the option on RG3 and declare him the starter back in February? If it was obvious after training camp+2 preseason games, then the football people clearly saw on last years film that there should have been a competition. Cousins should have been getting first team reps much sooner and he wasn't because again, the owner who contractually gave up final say in personnel matters, still has more influence than you think.

My view of this was a "lets give this guy all the confidence he needs for one last shot" since Griffin has essentially been coddled his whole life (per Cooley on 980) and operates better in "positive" environments. Based on GMSM's quotes at the time, it was clear he had at least positive feelings on the guy (in February)

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...t-mccloughan-Commanders-wont-give-up-on-rgiii

"I think (the 2015) season is going to tell a lot," McCloughan said. "We'll see what happens heading up to the draft and all that stuff, but I don't think you ever give up on a young quarterback that ... took you to the playoffs as a rookie. I really don't think you do that.

"Because they're so hard to find and he's still young. Give him the benefit of the doubt, he's been banged up. You can say, 'Yeah, the grass is greener,' but who can we go get? If all of a sudden he goes somewhere and starts lighting it up, you know? And Jay (Gruden's) system, that's a tough system the first year to learn. So, I'm very curious to see how his second year goes. Very curious."

Clearly between OTAs, training camp practices and 2 not so good preseason games, the football guys decided that Griffin simply had not done enough to demonstrate he can be an effective QB in 2015.

In that quote GMSM also gives himself room to change his mind. And with the option being non guaranteed except for injury, there was little risk.

Football guys pull the plug on him before the season begins. And now we begin the Cousins era

 

[Manwiththeplan]

My view of this was a "lets give this guy all the confidence he needs for one last shot" since Griffin has essentially been coddled his whole life (per Cooley on 980) and operates better in "positive" environments. Based on GMSM's quotes at the time, it was clear he had at least positive feelings on the guy (in February)

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...t-mccloughan-Commanders-wont-give-up-on-rgiii

I agree that was the thinking, but there's no way this was McCloughan's or Gruden's idea. We surely know it wasn't Gruden's and if McCloughan couldn't tell on tape that even if he improved, he would not be worth anywhere near $16 million, then you guys are still in trouble. Not to mention, you just saw Junior Gallette go down in practice in a non contact injury, if that were Griffin, then you guys would not be able to get out the guarantee.

Clearly between OTAs, training camp practices and 2 not so good preseason games, the football guys decided that Griffin simply had not done enough to demonstrate he can be an effective QB in 2015.

In that quote GMSM also gives himself room to change his mind. And with the option being non guaranteed except for injury, there was little risk.

Football guys pull the plug on him before the season begins. And now we begin the Cousins era

Trust me, it was obvious before Friday last week, and up until then, Griffin was still getting the first team reps. Someone needed to be convinced that this was the only option.

 

[SkinsHokieFan]

I agree that was the thinking, but there's no way this was McCloughan's or Gruden's idea. We surely know it wasn't Gruden's and if McCloughan couldn't tell on tape that even if he improved, he would not be worth anywhere near $16 million, then you guys are still in trouble. Not to mention, you just saw Junior Gallette go down in practice in a non contact injury, if that were Griffin, then you guys would not be able to get out the guarantee.

Eh, name me a backup QB who has suffered a serious injury in practice and can't pass a physical 6 months later.

Just 1.

Trust me, it was obvious before Friday last week, and up until then, Griffin was still getting the first team reps. Someone needed to be convinced that this was the only option.

It clearly was, and the football guys got to make the decision they felt was best.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Eh, name me a backup QB who has suffered a serious injury in practice and can't pass a physical 6 months later.

Just 1.

There may have never been a QB, I don't know, but several players have been injured lifting weights (torn pec) or in other non contact drills just because they landed wrong. Look at Jordy Nelson, that could happen to anyone regardless of position.

It clearly was, and the football guys got to make the decision they felt was best.

you're fooling yourself if you think they went from RG3 is the undisputed starter on 8/27 and it's Kirk's team for 2015 on 8/28. If the football guys got to make the decision, maybe they start with RG3 being the starter, but Cousins would have been receiving a lot more work with the #1 o-line and receivers in practice and in games.

 

[SkinsHokieFan]

There may have never been a QB, I don't know, but several players have been injured lifting weights (torn pec) or in other non contact drills just because they landed wrong. Look at Jordy Nelson, that could happen to anyone regardless of position.

Yea, I am really not worried about Robert getting injured unless he is playing in an NFL game.

QBs don't get injured in practice with the bubble wrap they are put in

you're fooling yourself if you think they went from RG3 is the undisputed starter on 8/27 and it's Kirk's team for 2015 on 8/28. If the football guys got to make the decision, maybe they start with RG3 being the starter, but Cousins would have been receiving a lot more work with the #1 o-line and receivers in practice and in games.

And Cousins starting is what the football guys wanted, and its what is going to happen. Not sure what point you are trying to make here.

"Its Kirk's team"-the head coach

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Yea, I am really not worried about Robert getting injured unless he is playing in an NFL game.

QBs don't get injured in practice with the bubble wrap they are put in

again, no amount of bubble wrap would have stopped Jordy Nelson from getting hurt or to stop him from getting hurt working out. but if that's what your stuck on, any number of hits could have been an injury against Detroit. Picking up the option, when there was no merit reason to was not something the football guys would have done without the suggesting coming from higher up.

And Cousins starting is what the football guys wanted, and its what is going to happen. Not sure what point you are trying to make here.

"Its Kirk's team"-the head coach

I'm arguing that if the football guys had their say, this decision would have been made prior to the first preseason game. It's been obvious all training camp to anyone who wanted to see the truth, Brian Mitchel came out soon after camp kicked off and said, what's being reported isn't accurate and he looked about the same.

 

[BringBackThatOleTimeBoys]

This season in Washington could be like 2002 in Dallas when they lost in the Texan's 1st ever regular season game. Both Dave Campo and Quincy Carter were on the hot seat and Parcells was hired at the end of the year.