Little payoff from Commanders' investments

LowTech

the most important member
Messages
2,308
Reaction score
522
Little payoff from Commanders' investments

Associated Press

ASHBURN, Va. (AP) - The Washington Commanders invested a lot to obtain Brandon Lloyd, T.J. Duckett and David Patten.
So far, they've yet to get much in return.

Lloyd has six catches in five games. Duckett has played in only one game. Patten was inactive for the first time in his career last week. For various reasons, none of the three has found a groove in Washington.

The Commanders sent two draft picks to San Francisco for Lloyd in March, then signed him to a long-term contract extension. Last year, he was the best receiver on a bad team. Now he's having trouble getting open and getting the ball on a team with higher expectations.

"That's hard to explain," coach Joe Gibbs said. "He's out there, he's on every route. He's playing a ton, and probably when we're really operating, he's going to be getting the ball."

Lloyd is on pace to catch 19 passes for the entire season, far from what is expected from the No. 2 receiver in any offense. He said he's adjusted well to the new scheme, but he's also had to adjust to playing in an offense that relies heavily on running back Clinton Portis and fellow receiver Santana Moss.

"I can think of two numbers that need to be called before my number," Lloyd said. "To make this team as successful as it was last year, the playmakers on this team last year need to get the touches before I do, so I'm not in a position to say anything. I'm not in a position to pout. I'm not in a position to be frustrated, because that's not going to help me when my number gets called."

That explanation doesn't mesh with the fact that Antwaan Randle El, the No. 3 wideout, already has 14 receptions with less playing time. Lloyd's slow start does, however, reflect the offense's inconsistency as a whole. The Commanders (2-3) had two explosive victories over Houston and Jacksonville, but the offense has scored only one touchdown in the other three games combined.

The way to stop the Commanders, if the first five weeks of the season are any indication, is to have the cornerbacks and safeties play the deep "Cover 2" zone. The receivers have become so sick of seeing it that Moss this week started to belittle defenses for using it.

"Cover 2, you don't have to do much. That ain't being a great pass defense," Moss said. "I've never played corner before, but I'll be a phenomenal corner in Cover 2."

The Commanders have tried to beat the zone with runs and short passes, but they can't keep their drives alive. The offense is only 6-for-13 in converting third downs with three yards or fewer to go. As a result, they ran only 45 plays in last week's 19-3 loss to the New York Giants.

"The receivers are a lot more difficult to get involved than a running back," assistant coach Al Saunders said. "A running back, you can hand them the ball. The receivers, you've got to throw the ball to them. It involves protection, it involves routes, it involves what the coverage is, it involves accurate throws."

At least Lloyd is getting a chance to make an impact. Duckett and Patten can't even get on the field.

The Commanders traded the equivalent of a third-round pick - the exact compensation will be determined after the season - to get Duckett from Atlanta, a move that smacked of panic because Portis had just gone down with a shoulder injury during preseason.

But Portis already had a backup, Ladell Betts. Even when Portis missed a game, Duckett was able to get only five carries for 24 yards. Otherwise, he hasn't played.

Gibbs keeps saying how badly he feels for the five-year veteran, but the coach said the trade was worth the price.

"That question wouldn't have been asked of me if Clinton had been out three straight games," Gibbs said. "Everyone would say, 'You fumbled that one, didn't you?"'

Patten signed a $13 million, five-year contract as a free agent last year with expectations of being a No. 1 receiver after being part of an ensemble group in New England. He had only 22 catches in 2005 before injuring his knee in November, and the Commanders swatted him down the depth chart in the offseason when they signed Lloyd and Randle El. He has one catch this year for 25 yards.

Patten is 32. Duckett is 25. Neither expected to be a bench-warmer at this point in his career. To their credit, neither has publicly complained.

"It's been an experience, but that's part of the job," Duckett said. "You just prepare and prepare, and when your opportunity comes, take advantage of it."

Said Patten: "Everybody wants to play, everybody wants to suit up, but the bottom line is you're part of a team. You have roles that you have to fill and perform. My role (Sunday) was to be sort of a cheerleader from the sidelines."

Notes:

CB Shawn Springs took more work in practice Thursday and even had an interception, offering a glimmer of hope that he will make his season debut Sunday against Tennessee. "Getting better," said Springs, who has been out with abdomen and groin injuries. He is listed as questionable on the injury report. ... DE Phillip Daniels (back), DT Cornelius Griffin (hip), LB Marcus Washington (hip), G Derrick Dockery (leg) and Patten (thigh) did not practice, but all are listed as probable. P Derrick Frost (calf) returned to practice and is probable. DT Joe Salave'a (calf) is questionable.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6056170
 

Billy Bullocks

Active Member
Messages
4,098
Reaction score
22
yeh, lets sit here and bash the Skins. This type of **** makes us look bad. 2-2, you dont run your mouth. period.
 

lspain1

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,372
Reaction score
33
Billy Bullocks;1089334 said:
yeh, lets sit here and bash the Skins. This type of **** makes us look bad. 2-2, you dont run your mouth. period.


I agree. We have little to crow about at this point. It's been a tough week hasn't it?
 

Eddie

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,092
Reaction score
5,862
Misery loves company. We rag on the Skins, yet what have WE done lately?

We were a 9-7 team last year sitting at 2-2 this year.

That's hardly an improvement.

We have a stud WR with only 17 receptions and a coach who won't throw him the ball. We have a 1st round rookie who can't get dressed cuz he can't beat out an undrafted rookie for the backup ILB spot.
 

burmafrd

Well-Known Member
Messages
43,820
Reaction score
3,379
Eddie- its actually very simple. Its call the real world of NFL football. Where first rd picks are sometimes slow to come around; where even HOF coaches make mistakes; and where sometimes the whole is greater then the sum of the parts and sometimes not. In other words- get real.
 

Ashwynn

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,777
Reaction score
500
Thats the only good news so far this week in Cowboy Nation.
 

tomson75

Brain Dead Shill
Messages
16,720
Reaction score
1
Eddie;1089396 said:
Misery loves company. We rag on the Skins, yet what have WE done lately?

We were a 9-7 team last year sitting at 2-2 this year.

That's hardly an improvement.

We have a stud WR with only 17 receptions and a coach who won't throw him the ball. We have a 1st round rookie who can't get dressed cuz he can't beat out an undrafted rookie for the backup ILB spot.

While I agree we've done nothing to warrant the right to bash the skins, your analysis is a bit off.

Owen's reception total is, for a large part, due to injuries in training camp and again in game two. I don't know about you, but I could care less if Parcell's will throw him the ball any more than he has. We've thrown 40 passes to Owen's thus far this season, compare that to the 27 we've thrown to Glenn, and you should get my point. Lastly, Carpenter IS above Hoyte on the depth chart. He's done nothing, but that is due more to Ayodele and Fowler, and his apparent inexperience on special teams than it has to due with an undrafted RFA being able to best a first rounder at ILB.
 

Bob Sacamano

Benched
Messages
57,084
Reaction score
3
tomson75;1089479 said:
While I agree we've done nothing to warrant the right to bash the skins, your analysis is a bit off.

Owen's reception total is, for a large part, due to injuries in training camp and again in game two. I don't know about you, but I could care less if Parcell's will throw him the ball any more than he has. We've thrown 40 passes to Owen's thus far this season, compare that to the 27 we've thrown to Glenn, and you should get my point. Lastly, Carpenter IS above Hoyte on the depth chart. He's done nothing, but that is due more to Ayodele and Fowler, and his apparent inexperience on special teams than it has to due with an undrafted RFA being able to best a first rounder at ILB.

:hammer: and TO has as many receptions as Lloyd is on track for this year LOL
 

MichaelWinicki

"You want some?"
Staff member
Messages
47,997
Reaction score
27,917
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Eddie;1089396 said:
Misery loves company. We rag on the Skins, yet what have WE done lately?

Yep.

Our FA's aren't exactly setting the world on fire either...

TO has been TO off the field-- On the field he's been more like "O-****".

Kozier looked good for the first 3 games then last week he looked like he's never seen a stunt before.

Rivera's looked good only a couple times in the last two years.

The Bledsoe signing looks to be a mistake (big shock there huh?).

Our kicker is goofy.

Our TE FA is on IR now.

Columbo looks decent, Our ILB from Jax is looking OK. Ferguson is playing well this year after being averge last year. Henry has been OK this year.

Our FA record isn't so hot either.
 

Bob Sacamano

Benched
Messages
57,084
Reaction score
3
name me a team who has hit on most of their signings? it's rare nowadays that you'll sign All-Pro free agents, but we've gotten some good players

and because our kicker is goofy?

btw, we're not exactly giving up much in free agency, esp. not draft picks, and only Henry, Ferg, Rivera, and TO have received big contracts
 

802dave

Member
Messages
313
Reaction score
20
Eddie;1089396 said:
We have a stud WR with only 17 receptions and a coach who won't throw him the ball. We have a 1st round rookie who can't get dressed cuz he can't beat out an undrafted rookie for the backup ILB spot.

More pass plays were called for Owens last week than any other WR on the team... How many more balls need to be thrown his way? All of his injuries have slowed not only his progress but, also his on-the-field chemistry with the QB.

TO and Bledsoe need more time together; they need to get on the same page like Bledsoe and TG! Bledsoe and TG are in sync; you don't see any turnovers when they're working together...

The best way for TO to get more positive results is to work longer with Bledsoe until they make a connection.

Bradie James was pretty useless for 3 years; now he's starting and is calling the defensive signals... Give Carpenter some time...
 

MichaelWinicki

"You want some?"
Staff member
Messages
47,997
Reaction score
27,917
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
summerisfunner;1089651 said:
name me a team who has hit on most of their signings? it's rare nowadays that you'll sign All-Pro free agents, but we've gotten some good players

and because our kicker is goofy?

btw, we're not exactly giving up much in free agency, esp. not draft picks, and only Henry, Ferg, Rivera, and TO have received big contracts

And about the only one that has given us a decent return on the investment (so far) IMO is Henry.
 

tomson75

Brain Dead Shill
Messages
16,720
Reaction score
1
MichaelWinicki;1089684 said:
And about the only one that has given us a decent return on the investment (so far) IMO is Henry.

I disagree. Ferg has stepped it up big time this year. Being fifth in the league against the run this year is largely due to his improved play. IMO, he's actually done his job better than Henry has so far (this year).
 

MichaelWinicki

"You want some?"
Staff member
Messages
47,997
Reaction score
27,917
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
tomson75;1089689 said:
I disagree. Ferg has stepped it up big time this year. Being fifth in the league against the run this year is largely due to his improved play. IMO, he's actually done his job better than Henry has so far (this year).

Last year he was barely average IMO. That wasn't worth a $8 mill signing bonus.

If he plays the rest of the season like he has the first 4 games my own view of his signing and the amount we paid will change.
 

tomson75

Brain Dead Shill
Messages
16,720
Reaction score
1
MichaelWinicki;1089698 said:
Last year he was barely average IMO. That wasn't worth a $8 mill signing bonus.

If he plays the rest of the season like he has the first 4 games my own view of his signing and the amount we paid will change.

Agreed. I'm most worried about the play of Rivera. This guy needs to find some of the consistency that made him a pro bowler in Green Bay. Kosier's last game has me scratching my head too, but I'm willing to give him a bye based on the previous three games. Ayodele needs to have a big play here and there as well.
 

Rockytop6

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,076
Reaction score
84
LowTech;1089282 said:
Little payoff from Commanders' investments

Associated Press

ASHBURN, Va. (AP) - The Washington Commanders invested a lot to obtain Brandon Lloyd, T.J. Duckett and David Patten.
So far, they've yet to get much in return.

Lloyd has six catches in five games. Duckett has played in only one game. Patten was inactive for the first time in his career last week. For various reasons, none of the three has found a groove in Washington.

The Commanders sent two draft picks to San Francisco for Lloyd in March, then signed him to a long-term contract extension. Last year, he was the best
receiver on a bad team. Now he's having trouble getting open and getting the ball on a team with higher expectations.

"That's hard to explain," coach Joe Gibbs said. "He's out there, he's on every route. He's playing a ton, and probably when we're really operating, he's going to be getting the ball."
Lloyd is on pace to catch 19 passes for the entire season, far from what is expected from the No. 2 receiver in any offense. He said he's adjusted well to the new scheme, but he's also had to adjust to playing in an offense that relies heavily on running back Clinton Portis and fellow receiver Santana Moss.

"I can think of two numbers that need to be called before my number," Lloyd said. "To make this team as successful as it was last year, the playmakers on this team last year need to get the touches before I do, so I'm not in a position to say anything. I'm not in a position to pout. I'm not in a position to be frustrated, because that's not going to help me when my number gets called."

That explanation doesn't mesh with the fact that Antwaan Randle El, the No. 3 wideout, already has 14 receptions with less playing time. Lloyd's slow start does, however, reflect the offense's inconsistency as a whole. The Commanders (2-3) had two explosive victories over Houston and Jacksonville, but the offense has scored only one touchdown in the other three games combined.

The way to stop the Commanders, if the first five weeks of the season are any indication, is to have the cornerbacks and safeties play the deep "Cover 2" zone. The receivers have become so sick of seeing it that Moss this week started to belittle defenses for using it.

"Cover 2, you don't have to do much. That ain't being a great pass defense," Moss said. "I've never played corner before, but I'll be a phenomenal corner in Cover 2."

The Commanders have tried to beat the zone with runs and short passes, but they can't keep their drives alive. The offense is only 6-for-13 in converting third downs with three yards or fewer to go. As a result, they ran only 45 plays in last week's 19-3 loss to the New York Giants.

"The receivers are a lot more difficult to get involved than a running back," assistant coach Al Saunders said. "A running back, you can hand them the ball. The receivers, you've got to throw the ball to them. It involves protection, it involves routes, it involves what the coverage is, it involves accurate throws."

At least Lloyd is getting a chance to make an impact. Duckett and Patten can't even get on the field.

The Commanders traded the equivalent of a third-round pick - the exact compensation will be determined after the season - to get Duckett from Atlanta, a move that smacked of panic because Portis had just gone down with a shoulder injury during preseason.

But Portis already had a backup, Ladell Betts. Even when Portis missed a game, Duckett was able to get only five carries for 24 yards. Otherwise, he hasn't played.

Gibbs keeps saying how badly he feels for the five-year veteran, but the coach said the trade was worth the price.

"That question wouldn't have been asked of me if Clinton had been out three straight games," Gibbs said. "Everyone would say, 'You fumbled that one, didn't you?"'

Patten signed a $13 million, five-year contract as a free agent last year with expectations of being a No. 1 receiver after being part of an ensemble group in New England. He had only 22 catches in 2005 before injuring his knee in November, and the Commanders swatted him down the depth chart in the offseason when they signed Lloyd and Randle El. He has one catch this year for 25 yards.

Patten is 32. Duckett is 25. Neither expected to be a bench-warmer at this point in his career. To their credit, neither has publicly complained.

"It's been an experience, but that's part of the job," Duckett said. "You just prepare and prepare, and when your opportunity comes, take advantage of it."

Said Patten: "Everybody wants to play, everybody wants to suit up, but the bottom line is you're part of a team. You have roles that you have to fill and perform. My role (Sunday) was to be sort of a cheerleader from the sidelines."

Notes:

CB Shawn Springs took more work in practice Thursday and even had an interception, offering a glimmer of hope that he will make his season debut Sunday against Tennessee. "Getting better," said Springs, who has been out with abdomen and groin injuries. He is listed as questionable on the injury report. ... DE Phillip Daniels (back), DT Cornelius Griffin (hip), LB Marcus Washington (hip), G Derrick Dockery (leg) and Patten (thigh) did not practice, but all are listed as probable. P Derrick Frost (calf) returned to practice and is probable. DT Joe Salave'a (calf) is questionable.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6056170

You mean they are receiving less than we are from TO and Vanderslice?
 
Top