Little update on Pacman

[WoodysGirl]

I didn't see a link, who's the source? I think the Titans are looking for a buyout for his contract. Not just taking on the unpaid salaries, but having the cowboys buy out part of his bonus. Of course, that's a pretty big sticking point I imagine. Cap ramifications and having to pay out "several million" out of pocket for somebody who may not even play and then isn't the best chance to stay in the league. I know Jerry's rich and all, but he doesn't want to just throw millions away either.

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115840

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115854

 

[DCBoysfan]

Nooooo $$$$$ to the Titans!!!

 

[ologan]

This things got more legs than the Sean Taylor threads.....WALK.AWAY.QUICKLY.AND.NEVER.LOOK.BACK!

 

[firehawk350]

You aren't doing the Titans a favor by accepting Pacman. They don't have to be eternally indebted to you for trading them anything. They believe that Pacman still has value in a trade and they are entitled to seek that. That includes, picks, players and contract buyouts. None of that is the Cowboys doing the Titans a favor, the Titans don't have to do anything and then be happy the Cowboys are willing to do business. Let me repeat that real quick, they are entitled to SEEK a contract buyout as part of a trade agreement. It's not selfish, it's just looking for the max value for a player. Obviously, if Pacman isn't worth it, then Jerry shouldn't do it. I'm not seeing why you guys are all up in arms about this.

 

[KDWilliams85]

The Titans won't get a red cent back from Jones. Why? Signing bonus can't be recouped. They can thank Ashlie Lelie for that one.

The Falcons also failed miserably in the same type of fiasco trying to get money back from Vick.

That money is part of the "guaranteed" column of his contract. It doesn't fall under the column of "Guaranteed unless I shoot people up in a club."

The Titans are boned. Dallas is just offering an out.

 

[zrinkill]

It wasn't an insult. It was a fact.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You aren't doing the Titans a favor by accepting Pacman. They don't have to be eternally indebted to you for trading them anything. They believe that Pacman still has value in a trade and they are entitled to seek that. That includes, picks, players and contract buyouts. None of that is the Cowboys doing the Titans a favor, the Titans don't have to do anything and then be happy the Cowboys are willing to do business. Let me repeat that real quick, they are entitled to SEEK a contract buyout as part of a trade agreement. It's not selfish, it's just looking for the max value for a player. Obviously, if Pacman isn't worth it, then Jerry shouldn't do it. I'm not seeing why you guys are all up in arms about this.

They are also entitled to ask for the Jones family estate to go with the first born of all daughters for 3 generations.

What is this crap about favors and whatnot? Its about market value. Outside of us there is no market for Jones. The fact that they will not accept that situation and continue to make unleveraged demands is laughable.

Its also a matter of precedent. When was the last trade you heard of in the NFL where a stipulation was SB money? There hasn't been. The behavior of the Titans in all this is completely irrational and its pretty obvious that someone in their organization has a bitter axe to grind.

 

[Vinnie2u]

Time to go back to Plan A. Draft 2 DB's First Round. Plan PacMan is not working..

 

[firehawk350]

The Titans won't get a red cent back from Jones. Why? Signing bonus can't be recouped. They can thank Ashlie Lelie for that one.

The Falcons also failed miserably in the same type of fiasco trying to get money back from Vick.

That money is part of the "guaranteed" column of his contract. It doesn't fall under the column of "Guaranteed unless I shoot people up in a club."

The Titans are boned. Dallas is just offering an out.

They aren't entitled to the money back from Jones, or anybody else. However, they can (for precedent, look at the Archuleta to Chicago trade) make a contract buyout part of a trade. In short speak, a trade could look like this... Pacman for a 5th, Akin and $2M contract bonus buyout. At that point, the Titans end out with a 5th rounder (obviously), Akin and his salary, and $2M of Jones' money and $2M cleared cap. The Cowboys get pacman and take on $2M of the Titans dead cap. It's not undoable and it's not unprecedented. If you don't like it than you counteroffer or leave the table. Saying, "BUT BUT BUT, you aren't entitled to that and we're just being nice!" doesn't get you anywhere. They aren't entitled to anything, but neither are you. They don't have to trade pacman.

 

[big dog cowboy]

You aren't doing the Titans a favor by accepting Pacman.

They believe that Pacman still has value in a trade and they are entitled to seek that.

Yes we are.

None of the other 30 teams seem to think so but yes they are entitled to seek that.

Bottom line, if they want compensation for Pacman, do business with the Cowboys. But keep your demands realistic. Because right now, they are not.

 

[firehawk350]

They are also entitled to ask for the Jones family estate to go with the first born of all daughters for 3 generations.

What is this crap about favors and whatnot? Its about market value. Outside of us there is no market for Jones. The fact that they will not accept that situation and continue to make unleveraged demands is laughable.

Its also a matter of precedent. When was the last trade you heard of in the NFL where a stipulation was SB money? There hasn't been. The behavior of the Titans in all this is completely irrational and its pretty obvious that someone in their organization has a bitter axe to grind.

Reference the Archuleta trade (washington to chicago) for precedent, as I have mentioned a couple of times so far. IF I remember correctly, it was Arch for a 5th and $5M contract buyout. Basically, they took on $5M of the dead cap hit and parted with a 5th for Arch.

 

[firehawk350]

Yes we are.

None of the other 30 teams seem to think so but yes they are entitled to seek that.

Bottom line, if they want compensation for Pacman, do business with the Cowboys. But keep your demands realistic. Because right now, they are not.

That's fine, but remember they don't HAVE to trade him. One thing working in the Titans favor is exclusivity. If the Cowboys trade for him then contract talks are all on their terms whereas if he hits the open market, the Cowboys are going to be among 30 other teams willing to at least bring him in for a look.

 

[zrinkill]

Reference the Archuleta trade (washington to chicago) for precedent, as I have mentioned a couple of times so far. IF I remember correctly, it was Arch for a 5th and $5M contract buyout. Basically, they took on $5M of the dead cap hit and parted with a 5th for Arch.

How much did the Skins pay for Archuleta?

 

[big dog cowboy]

That's fine, but remember they don't HAVE to trade him.

Yes that's true.

Do you think they will bring him back? NO

Do you think they want to just release him? NO

They are lucky any team is willing to talk trade with them.

 

[firehawk350]

They are also entitled to ask for the Jones family estate to go with the first born of all daughters for 3 generations.

What is this crap about favors and whatnot? Its about market value. Outside of us there is no market for Jones. The fact that they will not accept that situation and continue to make unleveraged demands is laughable.

Its also a matter of precedent. When was the last trade you heard of in the NFL where a stipulation was SB money? There hasn't been. The behavior of the Titans in all this is completely irrational and its pretty obvious that someone in their organization has a bitter axe to grind.

Market value is what people think it is. If the Titans think Jones is worth "the Jones' family estate plus all the firstborns for 3 generation" then good luck getting them to agree to a 5th rounder. Getting all upset that they value their player more than you do is what is laughable. And clearly, the favor thing wasn't addressed directly to you, but some of the other members of the board that think that doing business with the Cowboys is some great privilege and if you offer a ham sammich and a 7th for pacman, the Titans should just be overjoyed. It's just business, disagree than you back away from the table, not get all pissy and complain about how you were just trying to do them a favor...

 

[firehawk350]

How much did the Skins pay for Archuleta?

Completely irrelevant to the conversation... The adults are talking about precedent to contract buyouts, if you can't keep up or comprehend, try the kiddie table where the conversation is more to your level ("the cowboyz roolz and the skins droolz!").

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Reference the Archuleta trade (washington to chicago) for precedent, as I have mentioned a couple of times so far. IF I remember correctly, it was Arch for a 5th and $5M contract buyout. Basically, they took on $5M of the dead cap hit and parted with a 5th for Arch.

You dont remember correctly. There was a bomus due later the month that he was traded and no cash exchanged. Try again.

Commanders Agree To Trade Archuleta
Bears Acquire Safety for Late Draft Pick

By Jason La Canfora
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, March 21, 2007; Page E01

The Washington Commanders agreed to trade Adam Archuleta to the Chicago Bears yesterday for a late-round draft pick, NFL sources said, one year after making him the highest-paid safety in league history. The deal, which was contingent on a few routine procedural matters, was not confirmed by either team last night but is expected to be announced today.

Archuleta, 29, became the emblem for Washington's wayward spending during its awful 2006 season, one of a handful of newcomers given massive contracts a year ago who underperformed during a 5-11 campaign. The Commanders gave him a $5 million signing bonus and owed him another guaranteed payment of $5 million this month. While many on the staff have sought ways to get Archuleta more involved in the defensive scheme for the 2007 season and prepared for him to be back on the roster, the club's decision makers, Coach Joe Gibbs and owner Daniel Snyder, were behind closed doors much of yesterday, sources said, hashing out the deal with the Bears.

The Commanders and Archuleta agreed to postpone his original deadline of March 12 to receive his bonus payment in order to facilitate a trade, and the Bears, whose coach, Lovie Smith, has a strong relationship with the safety from their time together in St. Louis, ultimately agreed to pick up that $5 million payment as part of the deal, sources said, beating today's new deadline for the option.

Archuleta will get a new contract with Chicago, while the Commanders are expected to land just a sixth-round pick as compensation for a player who was drafted 20th overall in 2001. Had the Commanders executed the option and kept Archuleta as a reserve (behind starters Pierson Prioleau and Sean Taylor), he would have cost them $2.4 million against the salary cap; by dealing him, he likely will count $4 million in dead cap space, pending any other possible contract restructurings, but will be off the team's books after 2007.

Archuleta, who earned $5.6 million last year, was benched for the second half of the season save for special teams duty, and said he did not speak to the coaching staff much of the year. He also underwent a minor surgery on his ankle this offseason, according to numerous team sources, that was performed in San Francisco and not by Commanders doctors.

The deal yields few dividends for Washington, but, according to league sources, members of the Commanders' upper management believed Archuleta was a primary source for an ESPN article that was highly critical of the team's defense. He marks the third former first-round pick dealt by the Commanders in recent years for a sixth-round pick, joining quarterback Patrick Ramsey and wide receiver Rod Gardner.

Archuleta's departure will leave just three proven safeties on the roster, but the Commanders have been in contact with the agents for safety Omar Stoutmire, league sources said, and could reach an agreement with the player shortly. Stoutmire, a veteran of 10 seasons, played in Washington in 2005 and in New Orleans last year.

Archuleta, who expressed his frustration with the coaching staff near the end of the season, did not return phone messages, nor did his agent, Gary Wichard.

Commanders Note: The Commanders announced the re-signing of offensive lineman Todd Wade yesterday. Wade, who agreed to a two-year deal with $4.25 million guaranteed last week, according to sources, has a good chance to replace departed starting left guard Derrick Dockery.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/20/AR2007032001919.html

Its pretty sad that in your troll attempts you cant even keep up with your own team.

 

[firehawk350]

Yes that's true.

Do you think they will bring him back? NO

Do you think they want to just release him? NO

They are lucky any team is willing to talk trade with them.

I disagree, I think the Cowboys are lucking into a situation where they can get a player for so little. As a matter of fact, I know a bunch of guys here in skins land that think we should throw our hat in there. Why we aren't even investigating the option is beyond me.

 

[Hostile]

I disagree, I think the Cowboys are lucking into a situation where they can get a player for so little. As a matter of fact, I know a bunch of guys here in skins land that think we should throw our hat in there. Why we aren't even investigating the option is beyond me.

"I believe in luck. I find that the harder I work the more of it I have." --Benjamin Franklin

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I disagree, I think the Cowboys are lucking into a situation where they can get a player for so little. As a matter of fact, I know a bunch of guys here in skins land that think we should throw our hat in there. Why we aren't even investigating the option is beyond me.

You have no understanding of how markets work. There is no inherent worth, its determined by the market. Unless the league starts price fixing you have no basis for saying so little. it is what it is.