Little update on Pacman

[firehawk350]

No .... your entire argument is based on a false claim.

No one is saying its charity. You are just using this issue to take shots at Cowboy fans.

You have not made one point that makes any sense. Especially when you try to base the Commander trade practices on what we should do.

How is doing a "very large favor" not charity? Answer that and maybe you might have relevance. Until then, I'm not bothering responding to another one of your posts.

 

[The Rawhide Kid]

Completely childish response to a question.

Did you expect anything more from a Skins fan.

 

[khiladi]

Yeah, and I have the right to say you sound like whiny "sour grapes" because the mean ol' Titans won't give the nice Cowboys their pacman. You only think the demands are unreasonable, nobody else. I find their demands to be a bit much, but not unreasonable. Apparently, since Jerry is still (at least appears to be) at the bargaining table, he does too.

Actually, per some reports, the demands are unreasonable. For example, Herm Edwards said in essence that Pac-man isn't even worth discussing. Most teams that were interested in Pac-man, other than the Cowboys, have bailed rather quickly. Even the Patriots initially reported interest. If they bailed so early, this obviously means that it wasn't worth the effort.

The point is, the Titans placed a demand on bonus-money after the fact. That is an unreasonable demand, even if there was precedent in the case of the Commanders. In all actuality, that very precedent proves that the demand itself is unreasonable. Chicago is probably thinking in respect that what they did was pure stupidity.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Perception plays A LOT into all those factors, otherwise, why market so much? Are you saying that your perception doesn't play into your personal tastes? Speaking of tastes, do you know that there are studies that show a wine served in a certian setting almost invariably gets a higher rating (is received better) than one served in a "lower class" setting? How about realty? Isn't that driven mostly by perception? Personal need??? All you really need is food, water and shelter. You will go broke trying to market to somebody's needs. Eat rice, you won't die of starvation! By population, do you mean demographic?

Labor is a bit different from demand as there is always only one of that person. Better to examine how skilled that labor is. Obviously, a construction worker (no offense to any of those in the business) is easily replaceable as there are millions of people who can do construction. A top 5/10 CB is obviously only replaceable by 10 other people. That determines demand. Of course, we have a bit of a unique situation as Pacman may not be able to use his skills because of off the field issues or may be a detriment to the team in general so that of course drives the price as well. But going back to perception, wouldn't a lot of his value be based on how well he is perceived to have played? If the Boys think he is a top 10 CB and the Titans think he is a top 5, you are going to have a different idea of how much he's worth.

Either way, you missed option 4 and that is not cut him and play him. They have nothing to really lose as they could cut him after his suspension. If those were the only 3 options, why is Jerry budging at all on his proposal? Are you saying you are a better businessman than Jerry?

That analogy is stupid too. There is no good analogy since it's such a unique situation, it would be like the Falcons trying to trade Vick if he gets out on good behavior. There is no precedent to concretely determine the value.

Either way, like I said already, we think there is dead silence but who knows what's going on in the league circles up high. Even if there is dead silence, what makes you think the Titans brass isn't up there debating on the pros and cons of deal. They aren't going to give away a player that may stay clean and be a productive team player if they don't think the Cowboys are offering fair compensation. You keep forgetting they can always keep him around.

If we are bidding 6th round draft choice then yes we are doing them a very big favor becasue at the end of the day we could stick to the lowest possible bid and just wait them out.

Its really irritating talking to people that have no idea what they are talking about.

They market so much because that is the only way that demand can be influenced by firms. It does effect personal taste but its a drop in the bucket compared to other factors.

A recession lowering incomes will effect demand significantly whereas a ten million dollar ad campaign isnt going to increase overall sales that significantly in comparison.

The reason why they spend so much on marketing is because its all they can do. If they could increase population or other factors then of course they would but they cannot.

As for them keeping Pacman around thats funny. Fisher in his colossal stupidity publicly stated what everyone has known all along that Pacman is going to need to find a new home and that they have moved on.

What is Fisher supposed to do once Pac comes back to the lockerroom? Tell Pac that he was kidding. How do you think Pac is going to react. Oh sure they 'can' bring him back but it is so obviously a bad move.

You dont put a volatile individual like jones into that situation unless you want to see it blow up in your face.

As for you sad attempt to analyze labor markets, you once again are wrong. i want to take a moment and point out you just need to stop. Its very obvious you dont know what youre talking about.

The number of laborers in a market doesnt determine demand. it determines supply. and you keep babbling about what people think hes worth and over and over its pointed out that is irrelevant.

they are trying to sell jones. they can think Pacman is worth 4 first round draft picks if they want to but if they cannot get anyone to agree to pay that price then what they think is as worthless as your understanding of economics. if you are trying to sell something you get the best price you can get not what you want. Wanting doesnt complete a deal.

and if youre going to say my analogy is stupid you nned to explain why. i explained why the ferrarri analogy was stupid in terms of who the buyers were and the nature of them but the auction analogy is apt.

you have the titans and 31 other teams. the only way that the titans can get anything for jones is to get one of those 31 other teams to agree to a price. in essence there are 31 teams in the auction house and only we have put in a bid.

Now of course the Titans can put in a minimum bid but then none will bite and they get nothing for Pacman.

I do not think that the Titans are spitting in anyones face but i do believe they are acting very incompetently. they can wait all day long but after the draft the currency devalues. We have all the time in the world and two first round draft picks.

We are clearly in the position of strength.

 

[firehawk350]

Completely childish response to a question.

File it under "what goes around..." If that drawer is full, check under the "you give what you get" section.

 

[zrinkill]

How is doing a "very large favor" not charity? Answer that and maybe you might have relevance. Until then, I'm not bothering responding to another one of your posts.

Trust me troll ...... I am not looking for your approval.

But that poster was making the point that we are the only team who is offering the Titans anything for Pacman.

He will not return, he and the titans coach have already hinted at that.

There choices are to deal with us, hope someone else joins the negotiations, or release him.

Your stupid charity comments have nothing to do with this other than to belittle Cowboy fans.

If you do not like being called out on that .... go back to extremeskins, because that will not fly here.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Pacman will go where the Titans send him, I don't think there is much of a choice. He could hold out and not play, but would you for that much money? And at that point, if he did want to play, no club could (under league rules) touch him until the Commanders either release or trade him. Them the rules.

Really? Cause it worked so well for Baltimore when San Fran traded T.O. to them and then a day or two latter had to call of the trade cause he wasn't going to show up.

Pacman can absolutely keep from being traded to a team he doesn't want to be on by making it clear he's not going to show up and play there. Then that team, in your case the Skins, are going to immediately cancel that trade cause it's stupid for them to bring him in if he isn't going to show up.

 

[Stash]

Well if the world was in black and white then you'd have a point... However, there are some shade of grey and chances are they aren't 100% convinced so they will get what they deem as fair compensation for a player with Pacman's skill sets but also his problems. Nothing wrong with saying, well, what do you offer? Then countering and reconsidering selling if you don't get what you want. Try it with a car, somebody not give you what you want and you too will decide that you can live with it.

If my car was 'Christine' and would run someone over, I could see the comparison. Otherwise, no.

Yeah, and I have the right to say you sound like whiny "sour grapes" because the mean ol' Titans won't give the nice Cowboys their pacman. You only think the demands are unreasonable, nobody else. I find their demands to be a bit much, but not unreasonable. Apparently, since Jerry is still (at least appears to be) at the bargaining table, he does too.

You see what you want on your Commanders board. Over here, we think their demands for damaged goods are unreasonable.

You're just crying because 'Lil Danny isn't involved.

You're right though, I do wish the Skins would throw in their bid because I feel like anything later than the 4th round is an absolute steal.

And that's the root of any of your criticism. You hate the fact of being 'left out.'


Well, at least you have the honesty to let your agenda be known.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

From what I read on the Titans board.....

Bidwell...(owner of the Titans) has mentioned that he will eat the contract and keep Pacman on the team.....he will not let him go for peanuts....especially to Dallas who we all know the owner hates.

IMHO.....I dont think the Titans are in a must trade Pac situation......I could easily see Pacman back with the Titans........players liked Pacman and when he was there....he worked hard and was a difference maker.....

That being said....if I was Dallas.....I would walk away.....let the Titans take the chance on him.....one more altercation and Pacman is suspended again...and the Titans get nothing in return and still take the cap hit on his signing bonus.

I he is reinstated and is able to play then he either has to put him on the roster and eat up a spot or release him. He cannot just have additional players under contract that do not meet the criteria for various reasons. if he tries to place Jones on a list erroneoulsy the league/union wont allow it.

But i did think that there was someone with an axe to grind and was acting irrationally and apparently its old Bud.

 

[zrinkill]

Completely childish response to a question.

Trolls get sensitive when someone points them out to others.

He must have a history with me that I don't bother to remember ..... all the skins trolls look the same to me

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Really? Cause it worked so well for Baltimore when San Fran traded T.O. to them and then a day or two latter had to call of the trade cause he wasn't going to show up.

Pacman can absolutely keep from being traded to a team he doesn't want to be on by making it clear he's not going to show up and play there. Then that team, in your case the Skins, are going to immediately cancel that trade cause it's stupid for them to bring him in if he isn't going to show up.

Not only that but noone is going to take jones' contract as is with the escalator clauses. if he says he wont renegotiate then it isnt happening.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Did you expect anything more from a Skins fan.

Yes. I go to Hailredskins.com from time to time and have found them to be in good spirits, and very cool about things, thus far. So I'm honestly a little surprised to see such a childish response here.

 

[The Rawhide Kid]

Yes. I go to Hailredskins.com from time to time and have found them to be in good spirits, and very cool about things, thus far. So I'm honestly a little surprised to see such a childish response here.

Sorry, I should have said "What do you expect from ExtremeSkins.com members? "

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Maybe. Never been to that one, but I actually believe Firehawk is a member at HR. I think he is anyway, I'm pretty sure I've seen him there.

 

[Verdict]

File a grievance for what? They gave the man's agent permission to seek a trade. The man himself became vocal about playing in Dallas. Dallas did not pursue him until he was officially on the market.

I don't get how they have been wronged. Because they don't like the offer? Then don't take it.

Maybe the Titans are trying to recoup money from Pac Man?

 

[firehawk350]

Its really irritating talking to people that have no idea what they are talking about.

A childish response... WAh wah wah wah... Either way, trust me I know. There's this guy, FuzzyLumpkins, that thinks that what people like doesn't matter to how well things sell. I mean, if that was true, why does the league care so much about it's image? I guess being so insistent on being wrong is just his thing. Go figure.

They market so much because that is the only way that demand can be influenced by firms. It does effect personal taste but its a drop in the bucket compared to other factors.

So personal taste doesn't play a big role in any food, drink, sports or fashion industry? I would have to say that's the primary driving factor. Perception plays the biggest role in that.

A recession lowering incomes will effect demand significantly whereas a ten million dollar ad campaign isnt going to increase overall sales that significantly in comparison.

The reason why they spend so much on marketing is because its all they can do. If they could increase population or other factors then of course they would but they cannot.

Yeah, there's no other ways to drive up profits. Like market research and improving (or adapting the product) to the populace or reexamining the supply chains.

Either way, marketing changes perception (or supposed to) and it's well known that a good advertising campaign has turned companies around.

As for them keeping Pacman around thats funny. Fisher in his colossal stupidity publicly stated what everyone has known all along that Pacman is going to need to find a new home and that they have moved on.

What is Fisher supposed to do once Pac comes back to the lockerroom? Tell Pac that he was kidding. How do you think Pac is going to react. Oh sure they 'can' bring him back but it is so obviously a bad move.

You dont put a volatile individual like jones into that situation unless you want to see it blow up in your face.

Either way, it is an option and if they are going to get scratch in compensation, why not give it a try? Just me though.

As for you sad attempt to analyze labor markets, you once again are wrong. i want to take a moment and point out you just need to stop. Its very obvious you dont know what youre talking about.

The number of laborers in a market doesnt determine demand. it determines supply. and you keep babbling about what people think hes worth and over and over its pointed out that is irrelevant.

Sorry, I meant supply. I was thinking demand in my head as in somebody is in demand when I know it's supply. Either way, your self-righteous crap is getting real old, real fast. Supply equals number of laborers at the skill level and demand is the number of jobs for those laborers.

they are trying to sell jones. they can think Pacman is worth 4 first round draft picks if they want to but if they cannot get anyone to agree to pay that price then what they think is as worthless as your understanding of economics. if you are trying to sell something you get the best price you can get not what you want. Wanting doesnt complete a deal.

and if youre going to say my analogy is stupid you nned to explain why. i explained why the ferrarri analogy was stupid in terms of who the buyers were and the nature of them but the auction analogy is apt.

Likewise, Jones wanting Pacman at a 7th (or 6th) is as useless as "your understanding of economics". Wanting doesn't complete a deal. FO man, where the hell is your degree in economics?

Your analogy is stupid because there's only one guy on the trade block and there aren't anymore running around. Also, it's a car that may break down the second you try to drive it. Furthermore, it isn't an auction, it's a one-on-one trade. Different rules apply, they don't have to sell the Ferrari. In that way, it's more like a dealership or private individual listing the car.

you have the titans and 31 other teams. the only way that the titans can get anything for jones is to get one of those 31 other teams to agree to a price. in essence there are 31 teams in the auction house and only we have put in a bid.

Now of course the Titans can put in a minimum bid but then none will bite and they get nothing for Pacman.

What the hell are you babbling about now??? The titans are the sellers, why would they be bidding? They aren't in an auction house where pacman has to go so no, they don't have to bid a single thing.

I do not think that the Titans are spitting in anyones face but i do believe they are acting very incompetently. they can wait all day long but after the draft the currency devalues. We have all the time in the world and two first round draft picks.

We are clearly in the position of strength.

The titans could care less what your position is. I don't care who I buy or sell from (richest or poorest person in the world). They don't have to do anything. They can wait until Goodell makes a decision or Jones swears on a stack of bibles before they do anything at all. Your failure to realize this is clearly clouding your judgment.

 

[firehawk350]

Maybe. Never been to that one, but I actually believe Firehawk is a member at HR. I think he is anyway, I'm pretty sure I've seen him there.

Yeah, I go under firehawk157...

 

[The Rawhide Kid]

Commanders hat:$23
Campbell Jersey:$60
Pig Outfit for Gameday:$55
A Commander Troll that makes lengthy, meaningless posts on the Zone:Worthless

 

[firehawk350]

Really? Cause it worked so well for Baltimore when San Fran traded T.O. to them and then a day or two latter had to call of the trade cause he wasn't going to show up.

Pacman can absolutely keep from being traded to a team he doesn't want to be on by making it clear he's not going to show up and play there. Then that team, in your case the Skins, are going to immediately cancel that trade cause it's stupid for them to bring him in if he isn't going to show up.

When has he said he will not show up to any other team other than the Cowboys? He hasn't said that so it's pointless to mention.

 

[firehawk350]

If my car was 'Christine' and would run someone over, I could see the comparison. Otherwise, no.



You see what you want on your Commanders board. Over here, we think their demands for damaged goods are unreasonable.

You're just crying because 'Lil Danny isn't involved.



And that's the root of any of your criticism. You hate the fact of being 'left out.'


Well, at least you have the honesty to let your agenda be known.

Except I'm don't care if the trade gets done, I don't see how you don't see that. The only thing I really have pointed out is whining that the Titans are stupid/mean for not immediately jumping at Jerry's offer is stupid and asisine.