Looking for the moxie

[rcaldw]

Man I tell you, Big Bill can spot it a mile away. Scott Brunner, now there was a moxie man! Phil Simms, well, you know, Bill just couldn't see what he wanted in him.

This is all sarcasm of course, I guess I just get a little tired of articles that always assume that what Big Bill sees is the way it is.

As I've stated before, I still hope Henson turns out, but I honestly don't think it will be in a Cowboys uniform given recent comments. The difference with me, I guess, from some, is that I just don't think that Parcells has that good of judgment about QB's. I truly don't.

 

[SupermanXx]

didn't he draft Pennington?

 

[rcaldw]

didn't he draft Pennington?

Didn't he bring back Vinny?

 

[SupermanXx]

Didn't he bring back Vinny?

do me a favor and never mention that idiot's name again

that was the worst season I've ever witnessed

just say no to Vinny Ballsackverde and the images of horror that his name conjures

 

[wileedog]

Man I tell you, Big Bill can spot it a mile away. Scott Brunner, now there was a moxie man! Phil Simms, well, you know, Bill just couldn't see what he wanted in him.

This is all sarcasm of course, I guess I just get a little tired of articles that always assume that what Big Bill sees is the way it is.

As I've stated before, I still hope Henson turns out, but I honestly don't think it will be in a Cowboys uniform given recent comments. The difference with me, I guess, from some, is that I just don't think that Parcells has that good of judgment about QB's. I truly don't.

Until Henson plays worth a damn in TC then this just keeps getting older and older.

I like Henson and I hope he comes through. But so far to date Romo has consistently outplayed him for 2 TCs, and so far by all reports in one mini-camp.

If Henson doesn't step it up big time this August, then this constant "Bill bias" thing is going to really start to look silly.

I agree a lot of the media reports out there saying Bill was not happy with his progress in Europe are bogus - we all heard what he said, and it certainly didn't indicate that the jig was up.

But again, Henson still has not outperformed a UDFA at any point in the last 2 and a half years. Make all the sardonic 'moxie' statements you want, but he just hasn't done it.

 

[rcaldw]

Until Henson plays worth a damn in TC then this just keeps getting older and older.

I like Henson and I hope he comes through. But so far to date Romo has consistently outplayed him for 2 TCs, and so far by all reports in one mini-camp.

If Henson doesn't step it up big time this August, then this constant "Bill bias" thing is going to really start to look silly.

First off, Wile, I don't agree that he was outplayed for 2 TC's. I freely admit he was outplayed last TC. I also (and you have heard this enough as well that we all have it memorized) know that they changed his mechanics. I know you get tired of hearing it, but it is just plain true.

Second. I'm not claiming Bill Bias. I want you to hear me say that clearly. I'm saying Bill is being honest when he says that he doesn't "see it" in Henson. I don't believe for a moment (go ahead and call me a conspiracy theorist on this one, but I'm absolutely convinced of it anyway) that Bill played Henson on Thanksgiving for any other reason than he would have created a bigger stir, and from his vantage point, a bigger problem if he hadn't. He puts him in, VANILLA approach, pulls him at half (with the game still clearly in reach), and we never see him again.

Its not bias, its Big Bill's view.

My point is, I don't trust Bills view with QB's. Sorry, just don't. I watched Henson with my own eyes during NFLE, read his reports from Europe, noted what he said he was trying to accomplish (apparently what he thought Bill wanted), saw him improve and actually play well, and then see his coach submarine him immediately when he gets home.

Sorry, don't like that. I don't think that is what a good coach does. I love the Cowboys, root for Parcells (for the sake of the Cowboys), and anyone who is playing for us, and am generally pleased with the direction of the team.

But I was watching football when Brunner was better than Simms according to Parcells. I was watching football when Vinny T was played in Dallas no matter what.

I'm not a fan of Parcells as a QB evaluator. Just me.

 

[yesfan]

I think the fact that he won two Super Bowls with
Sims and Hostetler,for which these guys would not
excite anyone on this board if either was in his prime and
Bill brought one of these guys in,lmao, we'd be screaming for
his job.We got a real coach,who btw,has virtually replaced the
garbage of a team we've had for years with a potential to be a
contending team.I think he knows what he's doing.

 

[wileedog]

I'm not a fan of Parcells as a QB evaluator. Just me.

Fair enough rcaldw. And as I said I want Henson to succeed as much as you do.

But mechanical breakdowns aside, I haven't seen enough from Henson to say he is anything more than Romo at this point. That's not my opinion on Bill's take, that's my take.

Jimmy almost went with Steve Walsh though, so you might want to tone down your Simms/Brunner rhetoric. No coach is infallible, and Bill has the credentials where he is afforded some benefit of the doubt.

BUt for me, when I see Henson performing like he deserves to be ahead of anyone then I'll cast doubt on a HOF coach's judgement.

 

[rcaldw]

I think the fact that he won two Super Bowls with
Sims and Hostetler,for which these guys would not
excite anyone on this board if either was in his prime and
Bill brought one of these guys in,lmao, we'd be screaming for
his job.We got a real coach,who btw,has virtually replaced the
garbage of a team we've had for years with a potential to be a
contending team.I think he knows what he's doing.

The fact that he won two Super Bowls with different QB's tells you his view of QB's. (I know that Simms was hurt that year, I just mean the way he constructs a team.... defense, defense, defense, run, run, run... until Jerry brought in T.O., and that certainly changes things) If you subscribe to his view over the long haul of a franchise, fine. I don't. I'm not a Giants fan. I'm a Cowboys fan. 5 Super Bowl wins, not two.

2 came with a guy named Staubach
3 came with a guy named Aikman

We didn't play revolving chairs and ninja mind games (well maybe a little with Roger and Craig M., but it wasn't until we stopped that we started winning.)

Landry wasn't afraid to give Staubach the spotlight, and Jimmy gave praise to Aikman after the Super Bowls.

Last time I heard Parcells talk about Aikman I think he referred to him as "I think he was pretty good, I really do." And it was as bland a response as you could give.

Listen, I think we are fine in the present. Bledsoe should do fine with the supporting cast he has now. We should have a great young defense. We should be a lock for the playoffs and hopefully make a run at a Super Bowl birth. Parcells has done a GREAT job of upgrading the talent.

I don't like how he handles the young QB's and I thought what he did to Henson the other day, quite frankly, was cheap given the fact that Henson bent over backwards in all of his NFLE interviews to make plain that he is just trying to do what Parcells wants.

And I say again, over the long haul I disagree with his view of the importance of the QB position, and I don't think he is a great evaluator of the position.

 

[rcaldw]

Fair enough rcaldw. And as I said I want Henson to succeed as much as you do.

But mechanical breakdowns aside, I haven't seen enough from Henson to say he is anything more than Romo at this point. That's not my opinion on Bill's take, that's my take.

Jimmy almost went with Steve Walsh though, so you might want to tone down your Simms/Brunner rhetoric. No coach is infallible, and Bill has the credentials where he is afforded some benefit of the doubt.

BUt for me, when I see Henson performing like he deserves to be ahead of anyone then I'll cast doubt on a HOF coach's judgement.

I can agree with everything you say here Wile, including your take on Romo versus Henson, I haven't seen Henson separate himself either. I just don't respect Parcell's HOF credentials when it comes to the QB position. Its just one area where you and I might give a little bit different respect.

 

[Waffle]

I like you Rcaldw, but you sure know how to beat a dead horse. Go ahead and pledge your undying support for Henson because you know Parcells is an idiot when it comes to QBs. But why take swipes at Romo? What has Henson ever done to make you think he's better than Romo? Henson's play in Europe was average at best, no matter what excuses one tries and makes for him. Why tear down the "other guy" when making a case for yours?

Just asking.

 

[rcaldw]

I like you Rcaldw, but you sure know how to beat a dead horse. Go ahead and pledge your undying support for Henson because you know Parcells is an idiot when it comes to QBs. But why take swipes at Romo? What has Henson ever done to make you think he's better than Romo? Henson's play in Europe was average at best, no matter what excuses one tries and makes for him. Why tear down the "other guy" when making a case for yours?

Just asking.

I like you too Waff, and I didn't know I was tearing down Romo? In fact, I said that I haven't seen Henson distance himself from Romo. I've also said, if Tony Romo turns out to be for real, I will be happy. I'm for a FUTURE at QB. I have a different view from Parcells, I don't like rent-a-QB, I want a long term guy.

I bet you might be referring to the heading. "Moxie". And I used that, not because of Tony Romo, but because of Parcells. This "something" that he thinks he can see, really comes down to his own image, in my opinion. Parcells thinks of no one as higher than himself, and loves no one more than the ones who are most like him. (Combative, cocky, spunky, whatever you want to call it.)

As a result he ends up having his favorites. Keyshawn, Brian Cox, Tony Romo, etc. etc. I think it is less of a talent evaluation in some cases, and more of a personality evaluation. (If the talent is close to equal, or the performance is)

So, I'm not dogging Romo. I still like Henson's upside better, and I respectfully disagree with your assessment of his Europe performance. I think given the injuries, etc, etc, he actually did well.

 

[Waffle]

I like you too Waff, and I didn't know I was tearing down Romo? In fact, I said that I haven't seen Henson distance himself from Romo. I've also said, if Tony Romo turns out to be for real, I will be happy. I'm for a FUTURE at QB. I have a different view from Parcells, I don't like rent-a-QB, I want a long term guy.

I bet you might be referring to the heading. "Moxie". And I used that, not because of Tony Romo, but because of Parcells. This "something" that he thinks he can see, really comes down to his own image, in my opinion. Parcells thinks of no one as higher than himself, and loves no one more than the ones who are most like him. (Combative, cocky, spunky, whatever you want to call it.)

As a result he ends up having his favorites. Keyshawn, Brian Cox, Tony Romo, etc. etc. I think it is less of a talent evaluation in some cases, and more of a personality evaluation. (If the talent is close to equal, or the performance is)

So, I'm not dogging Romo. I still like Henson's upside better, and I respectfully disagree with your assessment of his Europe performance. I think given the injuries, etc, etc, he actually did well.

Fair enough and I stand corrected. I thought you were taking swipes at Romo with the "moxie" title in the thread.

I thought Henson made some strides in Europe, but he just didn't knock my socks off. I know his Rhein receiving corp was no better than what the Philadelphia Eagles usually field without TO in the lineup, but Henson just didn't dominate over there like a supposed #1 draft pick should.

 

[big dog cowboy]

As I've stated before, I still hope Henson turns out, but I honestly don't think it will be in a Cowboys uniform given recent comments.

He said some unpleasant things about our new rookies after rookie camp. You think they won't be in a Cowboy uni this year given those comments? Or what about Glenn. Called him "she" for crying out loud. Last I checked, he is still here.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I bet you might be referring to the heading. "Moxie". And I used that, not because of Tony Romo, but because of Parcells. This "something" that he thinks he can see, really comes down to his own image, in my opinion. Parcells thinks of no one as higher than himself, and loves no one more than the ones who are most like him. (Combative, cocky, spunky, whatever you want to call it.)

As a result he ends up having his favorites. Keyshawn, Brian Cox, Tony Romo, etc. etc. I think it is less of a talent evaluation in some cases, and more of a personality evaluation. (If the talent is close to equal, or the performance is)

So, I'm not dogging Romo. I still like Henson's upside better, and I respectfully disagree with your assessment of his Europe performance. I think given the injuries, etc, etc, he actually did well.

Totally agree and I don't see how anyone can deny it. Why else would there be so many players and coaches with Italian and Northeast backgrounds on the team?

As far as the QBs go, Parcells has said a million times that he likes it when players and coaches come up "the hard way". I bet he hated the whole "Michigan Golden Child" thing Henson had going on for years.

 

[wileedog]

Totally agree and I don't see how anyone can deny it. Why else would there be so many players and coaches with Italian and Northeast backgrounds on the team?

Our 3 #1 draft picks for the past two years are neither Italian or Northeastern. Or 2nd round pick this year was, but that was the only one.

Keyshawn is one of Parcells favorite players ever. I'm pretty sure he's not Italian, and he's from California. Mark Bavaro might like cannoli, but Im pretty sure Ben COates or Terry Glenn or LT or Carl Banks or Aaron Glenn didn't grow up having it for dessert from an italian joint in Jersey every night. Cripes, even Bledsoe is from the NW.

As far as the QBs go, Parcells has said a million times that he likes it when players and coaches come up "the hard way". I bet he hated the whole "Michigan Golden Child" thing Henson had going on for years.

And yet, the guy still hasn't proven he can play.

Can we get rid of our tin foil hats until Henson shows he's worth anything against real NFL football players?

 

[rcaldw]

Our 3 #1 draft picks for the past two years are neither Italian or Northeastern. Or 2nd round pick this year was, but that was the only one.

Keyshawn is one of Parcells favorite players ever. I'm pretty sure he's not Italian, and he's from California. Mark Bavaro might like cannoli, but Im pretty sure Ben COates or Terry Glenn or LT or Carl Banks or Aaron Glenn didn't grow up having it for dessert from an italian joint in Jersey every night. Cripes, even Bledsoe is from the NW.




And yet, the guy still hasn't proven he can play.

Can we get rid of our tin foil hats until Henson shows he's worth anything against real NFL football players?

I don't think, Wile, that Lab meant he ONLY likes Italians and people from the northeast. I think he was just saying that Parcells has an obvious affinity for people who are in his own image.

In fact, when I made that point I cited Keyshawn and Brian Cox, and I know they aren't Italian.

And you know what. I don't even blame Parcells for that. We all enjoy people who are an easy fit with our personality. I just think that Parcells can get stuck in a rut with it, make his mind up about players, and that's pretty much it.

And what I REALLY didn't like was what I saw as a swipe at a young man who has done nothing but bend over backwards trying to be what Parcells wants. Man, if you don't think he is, or if you don't think he really won't ever be, then just say he's trying hard or something like that. Don't give the media fuel for the stuff that is being posted now by JJT. I just think its unfair given what Henson tried to do this offseason, and again, I think he actually did well.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Why else would there be so many players and coaches with Italian and Northeast backgrounds on the team?

How many Italian players do we have one the team? One? How many top draft picks have been used on a player from the Northeast since Parcells got here? One?

I appreciate the fact that so many people want Henson to succeed. It really would be good for the organization. But could he at least do SOMETHING as a pro to warrant this kind of blind following?

 

[rcaldw]

How many Italian players do we have one the team? One? How many top draft picks have been used on a player from the Northeast since Parcells got here? One?

I appreciate the fact that so many people want Henson to succeed. It really would be good for the organization. But could he at least do SOMETHING as a pro to warrant this kind of blind following?

This is the kind of stuff that just keeps me shaking my head. hhhhhhhh, let me ask again. What has Tony Romo done as a pro? NEITHER has done anything yet. And right now, I don't take issue, at all, with Bledsoe being on the field, given the state of the team. But don't kill your young QB's confidence at every turn without cause. I say again, Henson looked good in NFLE, went there because he has a desire to get better, said nothing while he was there but that he wanted to please coach Parcells and do what he wanted. Why do you say what Parcells said on his first weekend home?

Roshi, this isn't about Henson if you are paying attention, it is about Parcells. But if you are a Romo supporter, you have only one thing to go on PRE-SEASON. period. He hasn't thrown a single NFL pass. So if you support him your support is every bit as mindless as you accuse Henson backers of being. In fact, more so. At least Henson has thrown an NFL pass, and an NFL TD.

But again, I'm done with bashing Romo (when I did it in the past I was really bashing Nors), why must you jump on Henson?

 

[jbz64]

Don't forget his man love for Ray Lucas. Lucas had moxie but his skills as a passer were limited. That's why I don't trust Parcells judgement in QB's.

To me Parcells is a miserable person that if someone crosses him and he doesn't like you he will never like you.

That's what seems to have happen to Mr. Fumble Hutch. He asked, "what's my role" and it seems like he never forgave him. He never got a chance to beat out Q. Not that he was any better but he never got a chance.

I wouldn't have an issue if Henson didn't make the team but I would like him to get a chance. Just like JFE said the other day that Parcells looks like he gets upset (don't remember the actual word) when Henson's name comes up. After NFLE he deserves a chance. He wasn't great but showed promised.

Another thing that I do not like is the way he talks about Romo. What has he done? I believe that Romo has hung around this long because Parcells called him after the draft and convinced him to sign with the Cowboys. He feels loyalty to him. That's just my opinion.

I've played and been around a lot of athletes that were great practice players but sucked in games. Who knows what Romo will turn out to be but he comes across as arrogant for someone who has not thrown an NFL pass and wasn't drafted. My perception is that Parcells protects him and is giving him all the chance in the world to make it one day.

Remember the statement he made about players he didn't want to come here or had not agreed with Jerry? He said those players wouldn't play. It was probably George and Price but Henson hasn't been given another chance since the Chicago game in which Henson was pulled at the half with the scored tied at 7. Jerry wanted him to play and Parcells said he wasn't ready. The season was lost anyway. Why play Vinny when the organization needed to find out if Romo or Henson could play.

Parcells has no doubt improved the talent on the team but Parcells really didn't do anything in his first two drafts besides RW, Witten and Newman but picking in the 8th and 5th spots overall you should come away with good players. Last year's draft and this year's draft were a lot better with Ireland being the head man.

George Young was credited for building the Giants and he had Belichek(sp) with him in NY, NE and the Jets. Parcells hasn't done anything without him and Belichek has won 3 Super Bowls without Parcells. 2004 was wasted because he failed to make changes like the ones he made last year. He thought the team was better than he thought after making the playoffs in 2003. I guess he didn't remember saying " you are what you are" after the Cowboys had gone 5-11 3 years straight.

I'm glad he has brought respectability back to our Cowboys but I'm tired of his egotistical miserable ways and his "Parcells guys" mentality.

Sorry had to vent.