Losing Ellis a good thing?

[hendog]

Don't get me wrong. I know it's not good at all. Period.

But - does this now force Zimmer and BP to be more creative with our front 7 and quit relying on such a predictable rush w/ Ellis and Ware off the corners.

I'd love to see some line stunts and inside blitzing by BJ and AA. We have to pressure Manning up the middle. Just maybe this injury forces us to run the 3-4 more like the Pats and Steelers. I'm hoping so.

 

[Portland Fanatic]

Losing Ellis hurts...period!


I see where you are going and I would also like to see more creative packages...not sure if we will, but I'd like to see it.

Still losing Ellis hurts big time because he is SO good against the run and a solid pressure player. We need two players to fill the void of one now.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

It may force them to become "more" conservative. I also wonder if this will have any effect on Bill's decision to rest Ware more, as before the injury, he could count on Ellis if he had to take Ware out of the game.

- Mike G.

 

[CATCH17]

They haven't changed the scheme around any player we have had before so I don't know why we would now.

I expect Carpenter to be better at everything except for rushing the passer.

We don't get a lot of pressure on the QB as it is and losing our 2nd best pass rusher is going to hurt us bad. Especially this week.

There was a reason Carpenter wasn't getting on the field and it wasn't because he was a bust or wasn't good enough. Its because Ellis was better.

If Carpenter can get to the QB then we'll be fine. If not our secondary is in trouble.

 

[superpunk]

It's a possibility. When Ellis was our only legitimate pass-rusher we were forced to go crazy. We have much more talent now, but the only talent that matters in this situation is the talent that may be filling in for Ellis. Thus far this year, our DL combined with Ellis and Ware have been generating pretty consistent pressure, with an occasional off-game, even with the vanilla scheme. If we can't get that rush back that Ellis has been providing, we might see more blitzes.

And I'm not convinced that's a good thing.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

Don't get me wrong. I know it's not good at all. Period.

But - does this now force Zimmer and BP to be more creative with our front 7 and quit relying on such a predictable rush w/ Ellis and Ware off the corners.

I'd love to see some line stunts and inside blitzing by BJ and AA. We have to pressure Manning up the middle. Just maybe this injury forces us to run the 3-4 more like the Pats and Steelers. I'm hoping so.

Maybe. Maybe Rat and Hatch see more playing time in the 4-3.

 

[Portland Fanatic]

Maybe. Maybe Rat and Hatch see more playing time in the 4-3.

Hmmmmmmmm.....you may be on to something going into this week.

We are going against Payton who will throw on any down...we may see a LOT more 4-3 this week then in any other week.

Put both Hatcher and Ware on the ends, and Rat and Spears rotating at DT along side of Fergi.

Interesting...playing more 4-3 this week could serve us better.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

There was a similar thread when Darren Woodson had to retire. We see how that's worked out.

 

[joseephuss]

There was a similar thread when Darren Woodson had to retire. We see how that's worked out.

Those were the same posters that would say that a Quincy Carter interception did not hurt the team because it was just as good as a punt.

 

[theebs]

Don't get me wrong. I know it's not good at all. Period.

But - does this now force Zimmer and BP to be more creative with our front 7 and quit relying on such a predictable rush w/ Ellis and Ware off the corners.

I'd love to see some line stunts and inside blitzing by BJ and AA. We have to pressure Manning up the middle. Just maybe this injury forces us to run the 3-4 more like the Pats and Steelers. I'm hoping so.

NO.

I think burnett can rush the passer and play, but ellis has been great so NO.

 

[Marktui]

Losing a good starter will always hurt. He was the only one generating any type of consistant pressure from the OLB's. I watched Carp trying to play DE after the injury, he looked slow and only had one move-the Bull Rush.

This injury could have a very big effect on the D. Ware now has to step up his pass rush and someone has to fill in on the other DE on the nickel. Hatcher will be the other DE I believe, but he is coming off a high ankle injury, and don't really know if he is full speed yet. Ratliff maybe?

I have a feeling that BP inserts Singleton because of his experience and he will not have to worry too much about putting him there. Singleton is steady, he might not be very flashy but he gets the job done. He probably doesn't want to burn out Burnett, because he does a good job on the nickel.

But I believe Ware will have to step up big time, cause now he is the best pass rusher we have!!

 

[LaTunaNostra]

I just hope Bill and Zim have got their tapes ready of yesterday's Pats-Jet games as well as recent Indy outings. That was a game that can point the way to a next week win.

If you can flat out fool a QB as savvy as Tom Brady with non-stop blitz packages, you can do the same to a lesser extent to Payton Manning.

I also hope the Boys defensive players are lobbying Zim as extensively as the Jets D did their DC last week...begging and screaming to throw the book at Tom.

The notion that a QB as quick and astute as Manning or Brady will ALWAYS recognize a blitz, and pick you apart because of it, is false.

They just have to be so creative he doesn't know what's coming.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Well then I think we're in trouble, LTN. I expect to see 70% vanilla cover-2.

Parcells: "Scheming is overrated; execution is underrated."

Problem is, every team plays cover-2 now and Manning and Harrison know exactly where those seams are. I don't think any team can stop them... They're just too good.

 

[STSINAZ]

ellis isnt always good against the run,, look how many times teams bounced outside on him...short dumpoff passes...he couldnt cover that good and truthfully he is about a half step slow from doing damage on the passrush...to me he had liabilities in his game...this could come off as a win win if we play the right players there...hatcher can get to the qb just as good as ellis and burnett or al singleton will cover and play the run better...

 

[Maikeru-sama]

Well then I think we're in trouble, LTN. I expect to see 70% vanilla cover-2.

Parcells: "Scheming is overrated; execution is underrated."

Problem is, every team plays cover-2 now and Manning and Harrison know exactly where those seams are. I don't think any team can stop them... They're just too good.

I always think about the infamous "Miami" Game when a highly potent offensive attack comes to town.

On Thanksgiving 2003, the Dolphins came to town with a ton of weapons on offense and we decided to play alot of zone coverages.

Now this is a different team with different players, it just seems like we go Zone when we play extremely potent offenses.

Our schemes are not extremely creative and we have had problems getting pressure on the QB constantly.

I dont see why people expect that to change.

We need Manning to make a few mistakes, stop being so heavily penalized, Romo has to manage the game and JJ and MBIII have to have a strong evening running the ball.

That is the key to victory right there. I dont think we will throw alot of elaborate schemes with Carpenter likely starting and Watkins/Davis at Safety.

 

[cowboy4eva]

Hell no.

We lost argubly our most consistent pass rusher, our 2nd best pass rusher and our captain of the team in one play. This is a huge loss. Potential at the back positions does not make this no big deal.

 

[joseephuss]

ellis isnt always good against the run,, look how many times teams bounced outside on him...short dumpoff passes...he couldnt cover that good and truthfully he is about a half step slow from doing damage on the passrush...to me he had liabilities in his game...this could come off as a win win if we play the right players there...hatcher can get to the qb just as good as ellis and burnett or al singleton will cover and play the run better...

I disagree. He wasn't perfect, but there was a reason he was the starter and playing so much. He was just better than the other players behind him.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

Well then I think we're in trouble, LTN. I expect to see 70% vanilla cover-2.

Parcells: "Scheming is overrated; execution is underrated."

Problem is, every team plays cover-2 now and Manning and Harrison know exactly where those seams are. I don't think any team can stop them... They're just too good.

Freak it, CL if we're going to go down, throw the book at them.

I'd rather lose seeing Manning get off a last nanosecond fluke reception with Ware around his neck or Burnett flushing him out then see Payton methodically destroy the secondary and the confidence of players we need to win out this season.

Just play a 2-3-6 , if that's what we're intending.

 

[jwhardin]

What I see is that with Ellis, you could switch from a 3-4 to a 4-3 with out a change of personnel. I don't know if they could do that now.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

What I see is that with Ellis, you could switch from a 3-4 to a 4-3 with out a change of personnel. I don't know if they could do that now.

And that's a big factor, indeed, isn't it, in combatting Mannings' no-huddle expertise?

Just one more thing re Manning I saw as a long time AFC fan....his audibling has in the past been used against him effectively..he was once thrown off by Herm Edwards Jets D very well, simply by having the defensive signal callers shouting out nonsense.

I kid you not...the d signals were called and changed so rapidly, Manning frantically countered them, and it was enough to confuse him into bad game, and a loss.

Don't know if such a thing would ever work again, but Fergy was with the Jets then.

He'd remember how Manning was made to look like a chicken with it's head cut off thru sheer trickery.