Louis Riddick - Cowboys take Zeke

[Sydla]

The same applies to whatever player is selected by Dallas at #4. Should whatever player it is happen to stink they are on the hook for $9mil in dead money. Should the Cowboys land a QB at #4 and he doesn't play for three or four years, then Dallas has to pay him the 5th year option of over $20mil for an unknown product. Or, if he plays early and stinks he made $25mil guaranteed and Dallas is on the hook for $9mil in dead money BUT the position he plays means missing on him costs the franchise for years! See Cleveland.

Bottom line is the point is to draft the best players on your board that will be a good fit on your team. If Elliott is deemed that guy so be it. If Ramsey is that guy...so be it. Same for Bosa or Wentz or Goff. I leave Tunsil out because of the players already on the OL.

You're forgetting contract value per position.

Average salary for the 4th pick would likely be just around $6MM.

- Elliott at #4 would be the 8th highest paid TB in football
- Bosa at #4 would be the 28th highest paid DE (includes 3-4 DEs but doesn't include 3-4 edge rushers)
- Ramsey at #4 would be the 31st highest paid CB
- Tunsil at #4 would be the 26th highest paid OT
- Wentz/Goff at #4 would be the 24th highest paid QB

So now which position are you paying a premium for with that 4th pick?

 

[tyke1doe]

I'm rambling. But bottom line: I think there is far too much going against the RB position to justify the pick on Elliot. Fournette if he makes another leap - maybe. Peterson at the time - maybe. Gurley without the injury issues - maybe. But not Zeke, despite him being an absolute stud.

See, this argument I don't understand. All the other backs get a maybe, but Elliott who is "an absolute stud" is a not.

Either no running back is worthy of a top pick - which would include Adrian Peterson, Leonard Fournette, Gurley or Nick Chubb or a top running back - particularly a stud - is worthy of a top pick.

This argument makes sense from a value perspective, but not from a talent perspective.

P.S. I doubt very seriously Leonard Fournette falls out of the top 5 next year.

 

[slick325]

You're forgetting contract value per position.

Average salary for the 4th pick would likely be just around $6MM.

- Elliott at #4 would be the 8th highest paid TB in football
- Bosa at #4 would be the 28th highest paid DE (includes 3-4 DEs but doesn't include 3-4 edge rushers)
- Ramsey at #4 would be the 31st highest paid CB
- Tunsil at #4 would be the 26th highest paid OT
- Wentz/Goff at #4 would be the 24th highest paid QB

So now which position are you paying a premium for with that 4th pick?

Ok Sydla...thanks for the info and insight. Hopefully Dallas picks a player that is a good football player for years to come no matter what he is being paid value-wise per position.

 

[Sydla]

Not many like Bosa here...kind of feel bad for him.
We have needed help on the defensive line for years and have been hoping to get a top end defensive player for years and now when we have the chance we don't want the one that is rated there for us to take.

I think if we draft him we put him in D.Laws spot, move D law over.
We occasionally use him as a 3 tech while rotating Crawford and Gregory in at DE
We use D Law and Bosa by having them stunt

I think Bosa makes the team better. He might not get the stats, or maybe he does, that people like but I still think he makes the D line better.

Does he make the team better than Zeke...My opinion is no.
Does he make the team better than possibly passing on a future Franchise QB if they are sitting there...My opinion is no.
Is he better than a certain LT that might be sitting there...My opinion is no but I don't think we take Tunsil even if he is there.
Is he better than Ramsey...I think if the Cowboys try to force Ramsey to play CB when he should play S...maybe

I don't like Bosa either but for argument sake, let's note that this draft isn't a one round draft where you pack up after the 4th pick and get ready for the season.

It's not necessarily a Bosa versus Player Y argument.

In other words, which would be better for the team.............. say Bosa in Rd 1 and then Perkins or Dixon or Booker in Rd 3 or.................. Elliott in Rd 1 and then some project DE in Rd 3?

To me, I'd take option #1 easily. I think it's more likely you get a good pass rusher and good RB from the combo of Bosa and Dixon (largely because of this OL) than the other way around.

 

[tyke1doe]

I thought we finally put the "Anyone Can ______ Behind This Line" nonsense to rest?

Actually, it morphed into the "Anyone Can ______ Behind This Line With A Healthy Romo" argument.

 

[phildadon86]

I see Erik Williams in Laremy Tunsil. That's why he should be the pick if he' there.

I do see Emmitt in Zeke too though.

I agree. Not to mention. Zeke LOVES to block. He is an all around 3 down back. I definitely don't trust DMC to stay healthy 2 years in a row. If it's between Tunsil and EE I got EE. That's just me. Obviously if there is no viable trade candidate

 

[tyke1doe]

Yep. I took the post as the Rams would want to sign one vs going through a hold out of some kind from the player.

Sometimes, you just want to get all the technicalities out of the way.

 

[garyv]

Actually I would love to trade down with SF pick up a 2nd or 3rd Rounder than take Zeke.

 

[ConceptCoop]

See, this argument I don't understand. All the other backs get a maybe, but Elliott who is "an absolute stud" is a not.

Either no running back is worthy of a top pick - which would include Adrian Peterson, Leonard Fournette, Gurley or Nick Chubb or a top running back - particularly a stud - is worthy of a top pick.

This argument makes sense from a value perspective, but not from a talent perspective.

P.S. I doubt very seriously Leonard Fournette falls out of the top 5 next year.

The other backs are/were better prospects, imo. It takes more than being a stud to justify a top 5 pick at RB, imo.

I don't think RBs are worth top 5 picks, in general. That doesn't mean I'm going to cling to that as gospel and not question it when very special players come along. That list for me is Adrian Peterson, to this point, since I've been following the draft closely. Gurley looked to have that promise, but had too much injury risk. Fournette looks like he could at this point in the process too, but needs another strong year. That's it - 1x yes, 1x would have been, and 1x might be - in over a decade. I know I can't can't confirm this as I wasn't posting here, but I was against Richardson being a top 5 pick at the time as well. I'd add Bush to the list, as I did think he was going to be worth a top 5 pick, but I expected a lot of his value to come outside of the traditional RB role.

 

[garyv]

You're forgetting contract value per position.

Average salary for the 4th pick would likely be just around $6MM.

- Elliott at #4 would be the 8th highest paid TB in football
- Bosa at #4 would be the 28th highest paid DE (includes 3-4 DEs but doesn't include 3-4 edge rushers)
- Ramsey at #4 would be the 31st highest paid CB
- Tunsil at #4 would be the 26th highest paid OT
- Wentz/Goff at #4 would be the 24th highest paid QB

So now which position are you paying a premium for with that 4th pick?

I don't believe you base things on where you pick a Player based on his Contract. Would Adrian Paterson be
a top 5 Player in his prime absolutely YES....I don't have a preference btwn Zeke, Ramsey or Wentz but will
say Zeke is pretty damn good and I wouldn't hesitate paying him top 4 money. He will probably make the
biggest impact for our team both offensively and defensively.

 

[Sydla]

Actually I would love to trade down with SF pick up a 2nd or 3rd Rounder than take Zeke.

That's clearly a better situation to take Elliott. Less financial resources committed to the TB position and you pick up additional picks to address other needs.

The only problem is San Fran would move up if Goff is going to be there at 4. They have no other reason to trade into our spot IMO.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I don't like Bosa either but for argument sake, let's note that this draft isn't a one round draft where you pack up after the 4th pick and get ready for the season.

It's not necessarily a Bosa versus Player Y argument.

In other words, which would be better for the team.............. say Bosa in Rd 1 and then Perkins or Dixon or Booker in Rd 3 or.................. Elliott in Rd 1 and then some project DE in Rd 3?

To me, I'd take option #1 easily. I think it's more likely you get a good pass rusher and good RB from the combo of Bosa and Dixon (largely because of this OL) than the other way around.

This is crazy and I know it is...But I think I would take a chance on Matt Judon/Jihad Ward at DE as a pass rusher and a good number of DTs who could be disruptive inside and take Zeke in the first.

I think Zeke is the hands down better player. But that is just my opinion...could be that Bosa winds up being the best player in the draft and Zeke turns into an over rated Ron Dayne type player.

 

[ConceptCoop]

I don't believe you base things on where you pick a Player based on his Contract. Would Adrian Paterson be
a top 5 Player in his prime absolutely YES....I don't have a preference btwn Zeke, Ramsey or Wentz but will
say Zeke is pretty damn good and I wouldn't hesitate paying him top 4 money. He will probably make the
biggest impact for our team both offensively and defensively.

But there's a reason why RBs are paid the way they are. It's not random correlation.

And while it's not the be-all end-all, contract should certainly play a part. Having a top LT, DE, CB or QB on a top 5 rookie contract can be a major plus. Not so much at RB.

 

[Sydla]

I don't believe you base things on where you pick a Player based on his Contract. Would Adrian Paterson be
a top 5 Player in his prime absolutely YES....I don't have a preference btwn Zeke, Ramsey or Wentz but will
say Zeke is pretty damn good and I wouldn't hesitate paying him top 4 money. He will probably make the
biggest impact for our team both offensively and defensively.

The only point of that list was to state that it's not as simple as saying you pay everyone the same amount if you pick them at 4. There is value in understanding the financial ramifications of paying a player what you pay him given the salary structure of his peers. You don't necessarily pick a player based on where he's going to be on the pay scale for that position. But when your owner and GM has been pretty clear the last two years that they simply do not want to put a lot of money into the TB position, it begs the question as to why they would then take a TB at 4 and make him a Top 10 highest paid TB?

And one more thing. I think people are going bonkers now with this whole idea that Elliott alone would have more impact on the defense than an actual defensive player.

 

[garyv]

That's clearly a better situation to take Elliott. Less financial resources committed to the TB position and you pick up additional picks to address other needs.

The only problem is San Fran would move up if Goff is going to be there at 4. They have no other reason to trade into our spot IMO.

Your correct on the SF move. Honestly I can only see one possible trade down scenario for the Cowboys only if Tunsil is available at #4.
My preference is Jalen Ramsey which in one of my Mocks I had Jalen Ramsey at #4 and Karl Joseph at #34 really I like it a lot. Those two
with Byron Jones and its a rebuilt secondary very quickly. It would mean DE in the 3rd Round though and probably QB and RB in 4th Round.

 

[Sydla]

This is crazy and I know it is...But I think I would take a chance on Matt Judon/Jihad Ward at DE as a pass rusher and a good number of DTs who could be disruptive inside and take Zeke in the first.

I think Zeke is the hands down better player. But that is just my opinion...could be that Bosa winds up being the best player in the draft and Zeke turns into an over rated Ron Dayne type player.

For the record, as I said I am not a Bosa guy. But he, Buckner and Elliott are in my bottom three of what I would like to see happen at the 4th pick.

I do hope they add a DT in this draft though.

 

[ConceptCoop]

That's clearly a better situation to take Elliott. Less financial resources committed to the TB position and you pick up additional picks to address other needs.

The only problem is San Fran would move up if Goff is going to be there at 4. They have no other reason to trade into our spot IMO.

I think teams could be willing to trade up for Tunsil or maybe even Ramsey. My dream scenario is trading back to 9 (TB). Bosa, Elliot, or Jack could slip. Hargeaves would be worth the pick if not.

 

[ctrous25]

If Wentz or Goff is still there...I think you take the QB if you feel he is a franchise Player.

If they are not I take Zeke over Bosa, Buckner, Ramsey or Tunsil.

I think of all of the players Zeke offers the most immediate impact of the players.

So I would have no problem what so ever if we took Zeke.

I hope we do this!

 

[ConceptCoop]

And one more thing. I think people are going bonkers now with this whole idea that Elliott alone would have more impact on the defense than an actual defensive player.

It's absolute nonsense. We had one of the better TOPs last year, even with all of the issues with Romo and Dez. Our offense will be fine if healthy. Our defense could be worse, however. Hardy didn't set the world on fire, but he made plays and kept double teams off of Lawrence. I'm not sure that Scandrick off sets that. If Lawrece doesn't handle the extra attention well, our pass rush could be a lot worse, as sad as that sounds.

 

[garyv]

The only point of that list was to state that it's not as simple as saying you pay everyone the same amount if you pick them at 4. There is value in understanding the financial ramifications of paying a player what you pay him given the salary structure of his peers. You don't necessarily pick a player based on where he's going to be on the pay scale for that position. But when your owner and GM has been pretty clear the last two years that they simply do not want to put a lot of money into the TB position, it begs the question as to why they would then take a TB at 4 and make him a Top 10 highest paid TB?

And one more thing. I think people are going bonkers now with this whole idea that Elliott alone would have more impact on the defense than an actual defensive player.

I think the thing about him that's special over other backs coming out he can run, receive and block which most can't. He will allow
them to control the clock again something they did not do last year. If I felt comfortable that Alfred Morris could feel that need than no to Zeek