Moore Betta Offense - Yards After Catch

[Dre11]

It’s not about what I see on tv. Dude was talking about RAC in a very conventional and common sense way, that we all understand. We also all understand that receivers can potentially run after any catch. Not really the point

Except it's not that simple. When you factor in the variables and the actual players.

 

[ItzKelz]

You think it is a "fact" that Dak was the best in the NFC (at any point). You're using fact wrong.

Produce a fact that Dak was not the best QB in the NFC the second half of last season. Completion percentage, Yards per game, Game Winning Drives, TDs?

 

[ItzKelz]

Walsh had guys moving across the field
Lineham ran way too many come back routes
Come back routes are hard to defend so they have their place but they tend not to produce much YAC

totally agree.

 

[ItzKelz]

YAC is crucial, I agree. I just don't see Dak putting the ball in places where YAC is possible that often even on routes that would lend itself to that.

You say that of Dak under Linehan based on no facts because we never ran such an offense not even with Romo. And that was despite Romos success with WRs like Crayton under the play calling of Garrett.

 

[Dre11]

You say that of Dak under Linehan based on no facts because we never ran such an offense not even with Romo. And that was despite Romos success with WRs like Crayton under the play calling of Garrett.

There's facts and proof. It's not like they don't run Any of those routes, that have . Dak hasn't been as accurate on those routes. Yo can't compare Romo, Romo was an accurate thrower, which is what you need on those routes. Under Garrett, the offense was more suited for Romo strengths. Romo's accuracy was clear when you watched him throw back shoulder throws and put balls in places where Dez could only get them. Notice Dak not being able to do that for Dez therefore limiting Dez effectiveness even more

 

[Number1]

While we often associate Zeke with yards after contact in the run game he is actually top 10 in the NFL in yards after the catch as well. Shockingly Amari is not even top 25; which IMO is a play calling problem.

yep, but it's it's a pass protection problem as well

"if you can' block don't call"

get Dak through his second read in a clean pocket or roll him out

a healthy OL is as important if not more to a passing game as the QB / WRs

 

[pansophy]

Cooper had huge yardage after the catch with Dak. YAC comes when receivers run precise routes and get a little separation.

Yeah I think that's what finally broke defenses from clogging the middle. If we do better on 3rd and long and red zone we will have something.

 

[pansophy]

You say that of Dak under Linehan based on no facts because we never ran such an offense not even with Romo. And that was despite Romos success with WRs like Crayton under the play calling of Garrett.

All data (>500 attempts) since 2014 when Linehan started as the passing coordinator/offensive coordinator...
1. Mahomes 4.59 YAC / Att
2. Smith 3.79 YAC / Att
3. Romo 3.79 YAC / Att
4. Goff 3.78 YAC / Att
5. Brees 3.76 YAC / Att
8. Rivers 3.74 YAC / Att
9. Roethlis.. 3.64 YAC / Att
11. Brady 3.60 YAC / Att
12. Rodgers 3.55 YAC / Att
13. Cousins 3.54 YAC / Att
14. Ryan 3.48 YAC / Att
23. Manning 3.30 YAC / Att
25. Prescott 3.29 YAC / Att

 

[Kevinicus]

Produce a fact that Dak was not the best QB in the NFC the second half of last season. Completion percentage, Yards per game, Game Winning Drives, TDs?

You're not understanding what fact means (or stats for that matter).

 

[buybuydandavis]

Linehan's offense was a safe offense originally put in place to keep the wraps on Romo. Run more with DeMarco and protect Romo from Romo with safe routes. Romo would sometime go off script and we saw Dak go off script last season. Dak took an offense that was designed for another QB and made it work.....that is a sign of greatness.

The mass of static stick and comeback routes were additions Linehan made for Dak. I think increasingly over time. I don't remember them being an issue with Romo.

And I suspect Linehan/Garrett revamped the offense for Dak in 2016 relative to Romo 2014. They would have been crazy if they didn't. Garrett actually calls a pretty good game for emergency QBs. I liked the offense much more for Kitna too. More short stuff on the move to get the ball out quick. I think Dak got a lot of that as well in 2016.

 

[Number1]

Amari Cooper - 4.3 forty
Zeke Elliott - 4.4 forty
Tavon Austin - 4.3 forty
Randall Cobb - 4.4 forty
Michael Gallup - 4.4 forty
Tony Pollard - 4.3 forty

and Wilson - 4.5 (still faster than Twll or Dez, and about the same size), also Guyton - 4.3

that ain't by accident, if you were going to go hardcore play action deep - hard to find better raw material - JG plans to score

R Elliott - 4.4, Pollard - 4.3 (not sure Tony is 4.3, but obviously 4.4 with an extra gear)

X Cooper - 4.3, Gallup - 4.4, Guyton - 4.3, Wilson - 4.5

Y Cooper - 4.3, Gallup - 4.4, Guyton - 4.3, Wilson - 4.5

Z Austin - 4.3, Cobb - 4.4 , Cooper - 4.3, Guyton - 4.3

that's a lot of fire power

and it ain't just speed, if you look at what the new faces Pollard - 4.3, Guyton - 4.3, Cobb - 4.4, Wilson - 4.5 ... Wilson may be the best football player

 

[ItzKelz]

The mass of static stick and comeback routes were additions Linehan made for Dak. I think increasingly over time. I don't remember them being an issue with Romo.

And I suspect Linehan/Garrett revamped the offense for Dak in 2016 relative to Romo 2014. They would have been crazy if they didn't. Garrett actually calls a pretty good game for emergency QBs. I liked the offense much more for Kitna too. More short stuff on the move to get the ball out quick. I think Dak got a lot of that as well in 2016.

I stopped there because its not true at all. These are things that started with Romo specifically targeting Witten. The offensive calling did not change at all with Dak. Dak just did not have the experience to change plays at the line until last season.

 

[Bullflop]

Nobody really knows what to expect when the upcoming season commences. Kellen Moore is certainly an unknown coaching commodity to us, as well as the opposition that we will face. If that's not to our advantage in the season's first half, I dunno what is. We'd do well to make the most of it.

The second half of the season is likely to introduce our players to the toughest part of the schedule, with opposing teams having better knowledge of our offensive plans. Therein lies the greater task that lies ahead for our offense to keep putting opposing defenses on their heels. Here's hoping it's a challenge that's destined to be overcome.

 

[America's Cowboy]

You're the one not grasping what this offense was doing. Stick routes were a staple of this team regardless of the situation. We ran 3 and 4 receivers running those routes on the same play, most not even varying the depth. We ran that play multiple times a game under Linehan, all WRs running 7 yd stop routes, they weren't the 3rd or 4th option, it was the only option because everyone was running one. The Seattle regular season game in particular, was maddening because we ran it over and over again. The defenders knew it was coming and camped out at the spot the WRs were supposed to break, they never even had to move more than a yard to cover them. The Philly game, Coop got frustrated with yet another comeback route called and told Dak he was going to dbl move him, why isn't Linehan seeing that and calling it? Nope good 'ol Linehan was content running yet another stop route that the defender was going to sit on.

It wasn't our WRs strengths to run all those stop routes. Linehan didn't adjust to the abilities of the receivers, those smaller less physical WRs are losing their biggest asset of speed and quickness, those routes are suited to the Dez type. Their advantage is forcing the defenders to stay with them, that means keep them moving not slowing them down. That's simply a cop out saying Dak doesn't throw horizontal or vertical routes well. If we want more YAC, then there needs to be schematic shift to do so, we have agile WRs to run more motion based routes.

As far as deep passes, we only run 2 a fly or double move fly, we rarely run deep posts, deep corner or deep crosses. You can't say it's because that Dak doesn't throw those well, the fly down the sideline is a harder throw and harder for the WR to track, those other routes are far easier for the WRs to adjust to.

The limitations weren't because of Dak, it was our OC and the Garrett offensive philosophy. Why didn't we run more pick or bunch routes, or RPOs, or use more pre-snap motion, or more PA or use Dak as a running threat more often? We have a FB, why don't we use him?

BOOM!!!

Game..
Set...
Match.

@Roadtrip635, you just schooled @Dre11. Raked him right over the coals. @Dre11 looks foolish with your 100% accurate assessment and explanation. @Dre11's problem is that he's got an agenda to simply attack Dak, even if he doesn't know nor understand what he is talking about, thus making a fool of himself. Thank you for this 100% accurate assessment and explanation.

 

[America's Cowboy]

There's facts and proof. It's not like they don't run Any of those routes, that have . Dak hasn't been as accurate on those routes. Yo can't compare Romo, Romo was an accurate thrower, which is what you need on those routes. Under Garrett, the offense was more suited for Romo strengths. Romo's accuracy was clear when you watched him throw back shoulder throws and put balls in places where Dez could only get them. Notice Dak not being able to do that for Dez therefore limiting Dez effectiveness even more

Where is your proof? Nothing but baloney talk.

 

[America's Cowboy]

All data (>500 attempts) since 2014 when Linehan started as the passing coordinator/offensive coordinator...
1. Mahomes 4.59 YAC / Att
2. Smith 3.79 YAC / Att
3. Romo 3.79 YAC / Att
4. Goff 3.78 YAC / Att
5. Brees 3.76 YAC / Att
8. Rivers 3.74 YAC / Att
9. Roethlis.. 3.64 YAC / Att
11. Brady 3.60 YAC / Att
12. Rodgers 3.55 YAC / Att
13. Cousins 3.54 YAC / Att
14. Ryan 3.48 YAC / Att
23. Manning 3.30 YAC / Att
25. Prescott 3.29 YAC / Att

This doesn't explain much. Which routes were being called? How much separation were the receivers getting? Were they running crisp routes and making good cuts? Why was Romo's receivers cut after Dak's second season? Was the Oline blocking well? Etc...

 

[America's Cowboy]

yep, but it's it's a pass protection problem as well

"if you can' block don't call"

get Dak through his second read in a clean pocket or roll him out

a healthy OL is as important if not more to a passing game as the QB / WRs

BOOM! Exactly.

It all starts with the Oline. QB needs time to go through his reads.

 

[Hadenough]

Bill Walsh created a whole offense on this premise....it was pretty epic you should have seen it.

Dak doesnt have the timing or accuracy to run the west coast offense.
Ive noticed a lot of the Cowboys routes are very simple routes that make Daks throws much easier. His accuracy is all over the place even on short passes. Ever watch Zeke go out for a screen pass. He rolls out and then turns around and stops. You dont see Alvin Kamara doing that.
This offense is based on being Dak friendly and which calls for WR to find a zone and settle in and wait for the ball. If you notice when defenses play man to man Dak struggles.

 

[ItzKelz]

Dak doesnt have the timing or accuracy to run the west coast offense.
Ive noticed a lot of the Cowboys routes are very simple routes that make Daks throws much easier. His accuracy is all over the place even on short passes. Ever watch Zeke go out for a screen pass. He rolls out and then turns around and stops. You dont see Alvin Kamara doing that.
This offense is based on being Dak friendly and which calls for WR to find a zone and settle in and wait for the ball. If you notice when defenses play man to man Dak struggles.

Dak has never played in a west coast type of offense. The numbers show that Dak is among the best if not the best in the NFL in tight window passes.....which points towards accuracy.

 

[Roadtrip635]

Dak doesnt have the timing or accuracy to run the west coast offense.
Ive noticed a lot of the Cowboys routes are very simple routes that make Daks throws much easier. His accuracy is all over the place even on short passes. Ever watch Zeke go out for a screen pass. He rolls out and then turns around and stops. You dont see Alvin Kamara doing that.